Large Hadron Collider: Rainbow gravity, Infinite Universe, Debunking BBT?

This week the LHC commences again. The research includes looking for miniature black holes which could prove 'Rainbow gravity', essentially debunking 'big bang' theory.

Exciting research, science meets philosophy.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Big Bang theory could be debunked by Large Hadron Collider
Scientists at Cern could prove the controversial theory of ‘rainbow gravity’ which suggests that the universe stretches back into time infinitely, with no Big Bang

The detection of miniature black holes by the Large Hadron Collider could prove the existence of parallel universes and show that the Big Bang did not happen, scientists believe.

The particle accelerator, which will be restarted this week, has already found the Higgs boson – the God Particle – which is thought to give mass to other particles.

Now scientists at Cern in Switzerland believe they might find miniature black holes which would reveal the existence of a parallel universe.

And if the holes are found at a certain energy, it could prove the controversial theory of ‘rainbow gravity’ which suggests that the universe stretches back into time infinitely with no singular point where it started, and no Big Bang.

The theory was postulated to reconcile Einstein’s theory of general relativity – which deals with very large objects, and quantum mechanics – which looks at the tiniest building blocks of the universe. It takes its name from a suggestion that gravity's effect on the cosmos is felt differently by varying wavelengths of light.

The huge amounts of energy needed to make ‘rainbow gravity’ would mean that the early universe was very different. One result would be that if you retrace time backward, the universe gets denser, approaching an infinite density but never quite reaching it.

The effect of rainbow gravity is small for objects like the Earth but it is significant and measurable for black holes. It could be detected by the Large Hadron Collider if it picks up or creates black holes within the accelerator.
“We have calculated the energy at which we expect to detect these mini black holes in gravity's rainbow [a new theory]. If we do detect mini black holes at this energy, then we will know that both gravity's rainbow and extra dimensions are correct, Dr Mir Faizal told Phys.org.

It is even possible that gravity from our own universe may ‘leak’ into this parallel universe, scientists at the LHC say.

“Just as many parallel sheets of paper, which are two dimensional objects [breadth and length] can exist in a third dimension [height], parallel universes can also exist in higher dimensions,” added Dr Faizal,

“We predict that gravity can leak into extra dimensions, and if it does, then miniature black holes can be produced at the LHC.

“Normally, when people think of the multiverse, they think of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, where every possibility is actualised.

"This cannot be tested and so it is philosophy and not science.

“This is not what we mean by parallel universes. What we mean is real universes in extra dimensions.

“As gravity can flow out of our universe into the extra dimensions, such a model can be tested by the detection of mini black holes at the LHC.”

In a new paper published in Physics Letters B, Ahmed Farag Ali, Mir Faizal, and Mohammed M. Khalil explain that the key to finding parallel universes may come from detecting miniature black holes at a certain energy level. The detection of the mini black holes would indicate the existence of extra dimensions, which would support string theory and related models that predict the existence of extra dimensions as well as parallel universes.
"Normally, when people think of the multiverse, they think of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, where every possibility is actualized," Faizal told Phys.org. "This cannot be tested and so it is philosophy and not science. This is not what we mean by parallel universes. What we mean is real universes in extra dimensions. As gravity can flow out of our universe into the extra dimensions, such a model can be tested by the detection of mini black holes at the LHC. We have calculated the energy at which we expect to detect these mini black holes in gravity's rainbow [a new theory]. If we do detect mini black holes at this energy, then we will know that both gravity's rainbow and extra dimensions are correct."

Read more at: phys.org...

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Can someone please explain why creating a black hole no matter how small is a good idea . Really , rainbow gravity . How about , i live on a planet , its called earth , it has been here for a really long time . Leave black holes alone .

a reply to: hutch622

The LHC is DETECTING black holes not creating them.

Are you objecting to scientific research generally or just the detection of black holes?

Where did you get the idea of LHC creating black holes?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Now scientists at Cern in Switzerland believe they might find miniature black holes which would reveal the existence of a parallel universe.

And if the holes are found at a certain energy,

How do you find one unless you have created one . Science good , black holes bad .

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

They are going to (attempt) make them, then detect them. If you read other sources this would be clear... there is actually a thread on this already that goes into greater detail.

a reply to: hutch622

hutch622,

I would not concern yourself with it too much if I were you. These are not black holes in the traditional sense. Think of your traditional idea of a black hole right? Born when a star collapsed in on itself, and became so dense that it mangled space time around itself, and consumes everything that gets near it. Those are NOT what is being looked for here.

I think that in comparison, if space time was the body of a car for instance, then a black hole would be a twelve gauge shot hole in the body work, and these teeny tiny ones that the LHC will be looking for, would have about as much effect on the body work as a single mote of dust.

cool theory, But gravity does not Exist. There is only magnetism. And the spectrums it offers.
Aside from this, the *Alternate Universe* would just be the state matter takes once it becomes Dark Energy/Dark matter does not act on magnetic flow because magnetism relies on strict rules. fragments of mass such as sub-atomic particles need to follow along a linar path in order to generate a 3-D image of a particle. If the mass was just flying in any direction it wanted it would collide much more frequently.

Also, mass acts as both a wave and particle, Which means it aligns itself along the most probable path. Until that path is chosen it can remain a wave and a particle at the same time. If there is a possiblity for the particle to move in said direction, it will phase to that location, but since it requires more than one option to have probability it thins out as a wave.

That's how our regular Universe works or rather Uniform motorized mass. However mass acting through a black hole or has already been compressed into solid objects cannot act in such a way. So in technicality, it would be an alternate state of existence. Another dimension if you will. But exists within this Universe, as well as the *Parallel* Universe because that other universe is what makes up empty space. Tho, It is all still physically there, just non reacting to regular motorized mass, Since highly compressed particles have no real * Space* inside them they cannot function like motorized mass does, However the magnetic nature is still present but is suppressed.

Its the suppression of movement that generates Energy, which allows the crushed mass to replenish and generate explosive energy, Which in turn over a long period of time eventually snaps and sends supercharged fragments throughout space. Acting upon the magnetic force, these slivers are drawn to clumps of matter floating in space pairing with its rhythmic partners.

The speed of Magnetism is unknown. It may not be plainly obvious to the average Joe. But magnetism isn't just one singular force. it is compound force based upon how much energy said particle holds, Which creates resonance. Just like tuning for a radio station, It requires a specific frequency in order to join together with a proper partner of similar or exact frequency. If the frequency is off, the mass will not interact with each other very well which creates static in terms of radio.

Examples of magnetism are the Positive force, the Negative force and the neutral force. The strong force has a range that is close to the neutral force. Where as the negative force sits outside the positive force. Underlining these forces are the Strong force the weak force and the neutral force. This is why the planet has generally, weaker magnetic field than a magnet. As we judge based on the strong force when observing magnets pulling or repulsing an object. Electrons protons and neutrons follow along magnetic paths ( Obviously otherwise the LHC wouldn't even be possible, it is a ring of magnets afterall)

The thing is, Objects will become Invisible if they are not orbiting a set magnetic path. Because particles in reality are only the surface area of smaller objects spinning. Which is why they are full of mostly empty space. It's not that the objects are solid. Black matter and energy is the only true solid object in the Universe. But are much smaller than regular mass.

I believe the Higgs Boson is a different particle from Dark matter, Because launching particles at each other and colliding them. Disturbing the motorized oscillation of the 3-D image tiny tiny dots that make up matter like i just explained, only make up the outer surface area because they are spinning so fast like fan blades. By smashing them together it consuming energy, The energy cannot be replenished. Which changes the frequency values of the dots, Fragments, shards what ever you want to call them. When changed, The swarm of dots can then assume the nature of a completely different particle, tho only for a short time. As energy is depleted the particle will soon blip out of existance seemingly.

Particles require a rather sable set of shards, Axioms would be the hypothetical term term used as i don't think they actually Isolated them yet specifically and only viewed them based on their power output, and spin characteristics. It's much more complicated than simply *Axioms* because these dots or fragments can assume many natures based on their reserve energy. However when they become depleted they cannot act in a motorized fashion, And this is how Decay occures AKA Entropy.

This study is defenantly a start into understanding the physics behind it. As spooky action is caused directly by magnetism, Relying on both the strong force weak force and neutral force which have their own varying capacities in range limits. Each has a scale, in simple terms to understand. Its like the electro-magnetic- infrared chart theory. It scales in either or direction. By producing a specific energy level, they should have more prominent results for a specific particle. Because of this.

Tho i believe there is only this Universe, and the black matter black energy universe and nothing else. Everything described within existence falls into those 2 categories.

Either physical mass is expending energy, Or it is building up energy. Just how i understand things.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: hutch622

The LHC is DETECTING black holes not creating them.

Are you objecting to scientific research generally or just the detection of black holes?

Where did you get the idea of LHC creating black holes?

Apparently in the other LHC thread from earlier today about possible proof of parallel universes, after reading several posts I was left with the impression that they were in fact creating mini-black holes, they're just so small and short lived that they disintegrate almost immediately?

I'm sure u knew that and I'm not fully comprehending.....so not arguing.

What I wanna know are what some people will think the implications of the "big bag theory" being debunked?

Would that bring science and creationism closer together? Or complicate things between the two further? Or! My guess, neither..........no change.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Now scientists at Cern in Switzerland believe they might find miniature black holes which would reveal the existence of a parallel universe.

And if the holes are found at a certain energy,

How do you find one unless you have created one . Science good , black holes bad .

A black hole is mass imploding towards the center based on pressure, And has to flow like a constant current.

Mini-black holes are basically when particles smash and collide to the point where a tiny vortex is formed where these shards are drawn toward a central focus point converting the fractured mass into a solid object. Tho, The funnel will not just stay open and devour everything around it. It requires a constant reaction. So there would have to be more particles being sent towards the focus point, Smashing and being ripped apart constantly to form a * hole * If you will. It's more or less converting the rapidly depleted matter into a minor stage of compression.

It won't stay that way for long tho i imagine because the pressure needed to condense matter in such a way for a long period of time is greater than what the HLC can provide. They can't create a true black hole and sustain it because matter will escape before a votrex can even be formed. it takes STRONG suction power to prevent matter from flying all over the place.

I wouln't be to worried as the power nessiary to open a vortex is pretty insain, And to fuel it would require some exotic matierals we simply don't have or have not found here on Earth Yet.

We are safe from a black hole being created by HLC lol. They can't created a true black hole but can detect matter minorly compressing, Which is all a minature black hole is. Matter compression.

a reply to: AnuTyr

And up until now the big bang theory was The thing . They are trying to prove a theory . I can imagine the ghosts of the people of other worlds crushed by black holes laughing . Silly humans , that's how we disappeared .

a reply to: hutch622

I'v been peaching the black-hole Universe is eternal theory for years now.

I can say this tho, so that mostly anyone can understand.

Basically, Physical matter. Like the Earth, Electricity. Gas clouds stars ect. Is called physical matter because we can see it and intereact with it. It's all * Moving * and is constantly releasing energy all the time.

What black matter and black energy would be, is the Opposite of that. As in not moving. Is a true Solid object since well.. it's not moving.
But it is made up of the stuff that matter once was.

Physical matter truely never stops moving ever, So when it's kept still. Absolutely still where there is no vibration. It Generates energy, which is the opposite of expending energy ( It's not releasing energy).

In my theory, the universe has and will always exist and will tick on indefenantly because of these 2 systems working synergistically.

Scientists are just struggling to put it into mathmatical formula, and are struggling to replicate the same effects because.... when things are not moving


We can no longer see them

But yeah the easiest way to understand all that. Is there is way more stuff out there recovering from using up energy. then stuff out there that is releasing it. Which is why there is more empty space, than stuff we can see. It's why the universe is so black and why everything is so spread out.

Another way to understand it is, It takes signifigantly longer for matter to recover, then it does to release the energy.
The recover time is so long. I know these numbers are not correct but just bare with me here. In comparison.

Black matter and energy is constantly expanding back into physical matter again, But since it takes soooooo long to recover energy. There is only small ammounts of physical matter in existance at any time. Compared to the stuff floating around. However, There is so much black stuff floating around, that it dosn't matter how much physical matter is destroyed by black holes. Because the ratio of black stuff is so high, it keeps the ratio of physical matter at a constant.

Say there is 99.999999999999999999 - Infinity black stuff right? and 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000-1 infinity physical stuff right?

Regardless of how much the 0.00000000000000000000000001 is destroyed. the 99.9999999999999999999 will always fill in for the 0.0000000000000000000000001-

If that makes sense?

It's a never ending cycle, which would make the universe Exist indefenantly forever and ever.

a reply to: doompornjunkie

The other thread is an article from the Express and is sensationalist about parallel universes and it had the effect it aimed for obviously, as the reactions on this thread show.

''omg they're making black holes'' ''it will swallow the earth'' etc reactions are something I wanted to avoid, instead looking at the real physics such as potentially debunking BBT and rainbow gravity.

The Express article quote:

www.express.co.uk...

Mir Faizal, one of the three-strong team of physicists behind the experiment, said: “Just as many parallel sheets of paper, which are two dimensional objects [breadth and length] can exist in a third dimension [height], parallel universes can also exist in higher dimensions.

“We predict that gravity can leak into extra dimensions, and if it does, then miniature black holes can be produced at the LHC.

"Normally, when people think of the multiverse, they think of the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, where every possibility is actualised.

"This cannot be tested and so it is philosophy and not science.

“This is not what we mean by parallel universes. What we mean is real universes in extra dimensions.

“As gravity can flow out of our universe into the extra dimensions, such a model can be tested by the detection of mini black holes at the LHC.

“We have calculated the energy at which we expect to detect these mini black holes in ‘gravity's rainbow’ [a new scientific theory].

“If we do detect mini black holes at this energy, then we will know that both gravity's rainbow and extra dimensions are correct."

When the LHC is fired up the energy is measured in Tera electron volts – a TeV is 1,000,000,000,000, or one trillion, electron Volts

So far, the LHC has searched for mini black holes at energy levels below 5.3 TeV.

But the latest study says this is too low.

Instead, the model predicts that black holes may form at energy levels of at least 9.5 TeV in six dimensions and 11.9 TeV in 10 dimensions.

Meanwhile, back in reality, far from sensationalist MSM fantasies
www.livescience.com...

Still, conventional physics suggest it would take a quadrillion, or a million-billion, times more energy to form a microscopic black hole than the Large Hadron Collider is capable of, so even a third of that is beyond human reach. Scenarios based on extra dimensions could have black holes form at a lower energy, "but they make no concrete predictions on what it should be," Pretorius said.

Risk-free black holes

As frightening as black holes might seem, if particle accelerators on Earth can generate them, such infinitesimal entities pose no risk to the planet.

"The one common misconception about the small black holes that may form at the Large Hadron Collider is that they would swallow the Earth," Pretorius said. "With about as much confidence as we can say anything in science, this is completely impossible."

To start with, theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking calculated all black holes should lose mass over time, giving it off as so-called Hawking radiation. Tiny black holes should shrink via such evaporation faster than they grow by gobbling up matter, dying within a fraction of a second, before they could engorge on any significant amount of matter.

Even if one assumes Hawking is wrong and that black holes are more stable than that, the tiny black holes would pose no danger. Because the microscopic black holes would be created within a particle accelerator, they should keep enough speed to escape from Earth's gravity. Moreover, if any get trapped, they are so tiny it would take each one more than the current age of the universe to destroy even a milligram of Earth matter.

"These black holes would be too small to consume any significant amount of matter," Pretorius said.

Pretorius and his colleague William East detailed their findings online March 7 in the journal Physical Review Letters.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Exactly, thanks for some reality on the thread.

a reply to: hutch622

It is sensationalist MSM 'journalism'.

press.web.cern.ch...

Microscopic black holes

Nature forms black holes when certain stars, much larger than our Sun, collapse on themselves at the end of their lives. They concentrate a very large amount of matter in a very small space. Speculations about microscopic black holes at the LHC refer to particles produced in the collisions of pairs of protons, each of which has an energy comparable to that of a mosquito in flight. Astronomical black holes are much heavier than anything that could be produced at the LHC.

According to the well-established properties of gravity, described by Einstein’s relativity, it is impossible for microscopic black holes to be produced at the LHC. There are, however, some speculative theories that predict the production of such particles at the LHC. All these theories predict that these particles would disintegrate immediately. Black holes, therefore, would have no time to start accreting matter and to cause macroscopic effects.

Although theory predicts that microscopic black holes decay rapidly, even hypothetical stable black holes can be shown to be harmless by studying the consequences of their production by cosmic rays. Whilst collisions at the LHC differ from cosmic-ray collisions with astronomical bodies like the Earth in that new particles produced in LHC collisions tend to move more slowly than those produced by cosmic rays, one can still demonstrate their safety. The specific reasons for this depend whether the black holes are electrically charged, or neutral. Many stable black holes would be expected to be electrically charged, since they are created by charged particles. In this case they would interact with ordinary matter and be stopped while traversing the Earth or Sun, whether produced by cosmic rays or the LHC.

The fact that the Earth and Sun are still here rules out the possibility that cosmic rays or the LHC could produce dangerous charged microscopic black holes. If stable microscopic black holes had no electric charge, their interactions with the Earth would be very weak. Those produced by cosmic rays would pass harmlessly through the

Earth into space, whereas those produced by the LHC could remain on Earth. However, there are much larger and denser astronomical bodies than the Earth in the Universe. Black holes produced in cosmic-ray collisions with bodies such as neutron stars and white dwarf stars would be brought to rest. The continued existence of such dense bodies, as well as the Earth, rules out the possibility of the LHC producing any dangerous black holes.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I would look a bit of a mug, if my name was TrueBrit and all I did was talk rubbish!

You are however, most welcome!

Thanks for the thread, I try to follow the major news from CERN and the Collider. Finally, it's starting up again (a long wait), hopefully all goes well with the machinery, and news and results should be popping at some point. Like Christmas in March, but with black holes (just kidding, putting on the LHC doomers).

a reply to: hutch622

as far as I understood it when this came up the first time a LHC DOOM PORN thread came about, even if a tiny black hole were to be created its lifespan would be on the nano or pico timescale as it would not have enough energy to maintain itself under the extremes of gravity and would collapse out of existence without any noticeable effects on the 3rd dimension.

Theoretically , the LHC has already created "Black Holes " (gravity wells) . Remember , black holes are nothing magical . They follow the same physics as any other mass. As theorized gravity is merely a depression in space/time relative to the mass of an object . The greater the mass , the deeper the depression . Look at the force of gravity like tossing a bowling ball on a bed mattress. it will come to rest in a depression in the mattress . Now toss a tennis ball on that same mattress . Chances are , the tennis ball will come to a stop near that bowling ball . The bowling ball and tennis balls represent mass and the depressions represent gravity . Now imagine a golf ball with the mass of 100 bowling balls which represents the mass of the collapsed star in a gravity well .That is your "Black Hole" nothing magical nor mystical at all . (neither is it a hole )The only thing that would happen in this case is both the bowling ball and the tennis ball would be pulled in to that depression in space/time. Is there more to it than that , surely . Now to be a self-sustaining black hole , you would need an astronomical amount of energy . I think Hawking stated an LHC as large as the planet . The physicists at LHC are researching gravity and they took a major step in locating the Higgs-Boson . They are attempting to determine what causes particles to have mass .

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

it does say the LHC may create black holes within the accelerator right in one of the sections you included:

It could be detected by the Large Hadron Collider if it picks up or creates black holes within the accelerator.