Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Approves Gay Marriage in Church Constitution

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seamrog

In the first century, weddings weren't preformed in a temples, and churches didn't exist, yet. There were no ceremonies or oaths, because the bride's consent wasn't required.

At what point then, did God join a couple together?

At what point do the two become one flesh? At the birth of their child, of course! That's when "God" joins two, so that two become one!

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
... the vast majority of Catholics support marriage equality. Source Will the Catholic Church be next?

A requirement of Roman Catholicism is faithful adherence to the magisterium of the Church, including faithful practice of what she professes. A Catholic can never claim, or support any claim that the sacramental union of a man and a woman is in any equal to a pretend union of two men, or two women.

Do that, and well - you're not Catholic.

If every person claiming to be Catholic filled every Catholic church for a thousand Sundays demanding the impossibility of marriage 'equality,' it could, and would never happen. The Church does not have the authority to do so. Not a Bishop, not a a Cardinal, not the College of Cardinals, not this Pope, nor any Pope who succeeds him - none of them have the authority to change Christ's teaching.

The teaching is clear as crystal.

"Have you never read, how he who created them, when they first came to be, created them male and female; and how he said, A man, therefore, will leave his father and mother and will cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? And so they are no longer two, they are one flesh; what God, then, has joined, let not man put asunder."

Crystal.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

This. If the Church finds it has to modify their stances to "stay relevant" then perhaps it was all o bunch of made up bull# all along.

A billion and a half (and growing!) Catholics don't happen to share your view, Doc.

If you were going to work to PROTECT something ... a quality or an action or a status ... wouldn't you fight against that which destroys that thing rather than trying to keep others from sharing in that thing?

I mean, let's think about this for a minute. Divorce rate is and has been 50% in this country for some time.

What if all the efforts to keep people FROM GETTING married were applied to KEEPING PEOPLE MARRIED with better pre-nuptial counselling, ideas on sexuality a bit more modern than the Medieval period, family support systems, etc?

I mean, I'm just askin' and all.

originally posted by: windword

"God"

Blew your cover there, pal.

Dust and sandals and all that.

a reply to: Seamrog

But Holy Mother Church allows for divorce, right?

Right there, in that verse you just quoted ... uh ... didn't Jesus command against divorce?

Or in the more flowery Elizabethan ... "Let no man put asunder."

So, Catholics can ignore Jesus when he commands about divorce, but they have to follow strictly something that is at best an implication of what Jesus said?

Wow. Religion man.

a reply to: Seamrog

A requirement of Roman Catholicism is faithful adherence to the magisterium of the Church, including faithful practice of what she professes. [.......]
Do that, and well - you're not Catholic.

LOL

Well then, there are an awful lot of non Catholic practicing Catholic women, and their supportive husbands and lovers, because statistics show that an ungodly percentage of western Catholic women have used and practice forbidden birth control.

Did someone say the "Church" is growing? Not so if you're only counting real Catholics.

originally posted by: Gryphon66


If you were going to work to PROTECT something ... a quality or an action or a status ... wouldn't you fight against that which destroys that thing rather than trying to keep others from sharing in that thing?

This is exactly why the Church works hard to proclaim the Truth in the face of a culture that is diametrically opposed to Her.

Pope John XXIII laid it bare in Humanae Vitae - using contraception is a seriously grave sin - he was a prophet of his time, proclaiming the damage it would do to marriage, to families and to our society. He was, and continues to be proven right.

The Church proclaims that sex is reserved for sacramental marriage, and it is dead on.

The Church proclaimed that no-fault divorce would decimate families and our culture...again, dead on.

The Church proclaims that legalized abortion would decimate families and our society. 53 million dead Americans later, she is horribly proven right by the second.

The Church declares that homosexual behavior is inherently disordered and sinful - dead right.

The Church declares that altering the definition of a civil marriage will further harm legitimate marriages, and She will continue to be proven right.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: windword

"God"

Blew your cover there, pal.

Dust and sandals and all that.

originally posted by: Seamrog
At what point then, did God join a couple together?

ME:
At what point do the two become one flesh? At the birth of their child, of course! That's when "God" joins two, so that two become one!

Really? How so?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Seamrog

But Holy Mother Church allows for divorce, right?

Please show me where the Catholic Church acknowledges divorce...

The answer to your question is not 'right,' but 'wrong.'

a reply to: Seamrog

Your nickname doesn't happen to be "The Church" does it?

You seem to be speaking as "The Church" a lot, for all Catholics, and earlier, for all real Christians, everywhere.

But you remain awfully quiet on Jesus' DIRECT COMMANDMENT not to allow divorce.

Why is that, one wonders?

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Seamrog

But Holy Mother Church allows for divorce, right?

Please show me where the Catholic Church acknowledges divorce...

The answer to your question is not 'right,' but 'wrong.'

Oh right ... they don't call it divorce, do they?

You're right my mistake.

Catholics have what is called "Declaration of Nullity based on a Lack of Canonical Form."

And what happens after that?

Well, the couple in question is no longer married, because mumbo-jumbo they never WERE married, and thus are free to marry again.

So, let's see what happens ... a marriage is ended and the previous partners can marry again (without sin, LOL).

Tell me if we called this rose a cow-patty, would it smell different?

a reply to: Gryphon66

What I'm stating here is what the Roman Catholic Church professes - you can look it up if you want. It is what it is.

I directly addressed your comment on divorce, so let me repeat myself here for your benefit:

The Roman Catholic Church does not permit a marriage to be dissolved.

Period.

Henry VIII and all that...

originally posted by: Seamrog
a reply to: Gryphon66

What I'm stating here is what the Roman Catholic Church professes - you can look it up if you want. It is what it is.

I directly addressed your comment on divorce, so let me repeat myself here for your benefit:

The Roman Catholic Church does not permit a marriage to be dissolved.

Period.

Henry VIII and all that...

You didn't state what the Church professes ... you paraphrased it according to your own agenda.

The Church, in its normal "we can call something anything we want to" hypocrisy calls its divorces by a different convoluted phrase.

Still an ending to marriage.

Still a divorce.

Still against Jesus' command.

Why don't YOU quote Church documents if you wish to make your claim appear to be serious at all? Are you too lazy to back up your claims?

Or have you grown used to speaking ex cathedra?

End of marriage, can marry other people = Divorce.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So is this like official meaning that all Presbyterian churches will now follow this???

I'm not aware of how the hierarchy of churches organize and stuff so I didn't know if this was now their official policy for all churches across the nation or what??

a reply to: Seamrog

originally posted by: Seamrog
At what point then, did God join a couple together?

ME:
At what point do the two become one flesh? At the birth of their child, of course! That's when "God" joins two, so two become one!

I would be remiss if I didn't add:

Jesus, while he was telling his apostles about the birds and bees, and how babies are born and all, also told them in secret that, when two brethren love each other very much, they can find a virgin and a goat bladder............

a reply to: Gryphon66

I have noted that you carry an anti-religious chip on your shoulder in almost every post, and it colors your judgement.


Let me erase any ambiguity for you, or for any that may be confused by what you erroneously claim here.


This is not my agenda - it is Roman Catholic dogma:


Divorce and remarriage is not permitted because Jesus commanded it so. I cited the scripture for you previously. Sacramental marriage is a LIFELONG matter that only concludes with the death of one party.


That said, the Church recognizes that there are instances where the sacrament could not be conferred - some examples:


A woman in good faith marries a man in the Church who kept a previous marriage hidden.

A man marries a woman who professed her belief in Jesus as the Son of God, who later admits she did it to win his hand, and denies Christ and refuses to allow the children to be raised in the Church.

A pregnant teenager is threatened by her violent father to marry the boy, 'or else.'


All of these examples clearly never would qualify as a marriage, and therefore the Church acknowledges that.

Permitting divorced people to remarry...again, sorry to disappoint you, but it ain't so.

Time for the Sound of Music special on ABC....I'll leave you to your bitterness.

Bye!

a reply to: Seamrog

You do understand that the Roman Catholic that you know today has evolved? They used to speak only in Latin, the Priest never faced the people only the alter, and no man or woman could speak to god, only a clean priest.

It is a new day. Do you not think the elders fought when changes were made?

We now have a live band at our mass but we also have a traditional mass. Things grow, it's OK. It makes us better.