In Defense of Chemtrail Conspiracy Theorists: Part 5. The Dreaded Burden of Proof

a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Since I am either a fool, or a paid shill, our conversation is pointless.
But just for fun, how do you know one was not a contrail?

ETA:
contrails are explained here:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

I don't "know" anything, but I think that until someone can offer a valid answer as to why a white puffy line in the sky left from a plane at 25-35 thousand feet, it's reasonable to believe it's a contrail. To think otherwise with no evidence is akin to believing there is a man in the refrigerator that is in charge of the light.

a reply to: network dude
If it was possible for the pilot of the plane leaving the "persistent contrail" to turn said contrail on and off at his discretion while I am watching then I would say it was a normal contrail. I have been watching and studying this for over 10 years and I'm well aware how contrails are formed. Great job taking my statement out of context too. It would have been more appropriate to quote me like this: "...weather modification is real. Anyone who tries to deny that fact is either a fool or a dis-info agent." Believe what you want, it makes no difference to me.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Petrie, you captured the debunkers condescension & judgmental attitude perfectly.

Good part 5!

meh...i think its acceptable to be a bit condescending to adults who consistently argue with childish reasoning and go against established scientific proof.

The fact this issue exists, & gives you reason to think being condescending is good/ok/beneficial/warranted is what's wrong with society.

Is there any real reason to not believe in chemtrails other than "you don't want to because Science"?

I expect the idea that your world might fall apart for whatever reason due to whatever cause terrifies you (& most long term conditioned humans), thus you vehemently deny any possibility, such as chemtrails.

I'm not saying you should be like me & hope chemtrails are real because the alternate is terribly boring, but firmly standing by Science, a field fraught with conditioning, bias, & assumptions just makes you look like a sheep, in my eyes.

I don't believe anything told me by "the system", which includes all aspects of science, government, & the corporatacracy.

The chemtrail believers are at least open to possibilities, the deniers just cling to their infallible knowledge of hearsay & hope.

originally posted by: jaws1975
a reply to: johnwick

So it had a good intention but a nefarious methodology.

It had a good intention, really? Secretly spraying citizens, intentionally getting them sick to monitor wind patterns are considered good intentions?

So they could better protect the populous from radioactive fallout...yes.

Good intentioned, they weren't giving folks Ebola. Just like the common cold or the flu type stuff.

But still, nefarious methodology.

It should be a crime against humanity to do this type of stuff.

Why not just drop colored chaff or something and then ask folks if they find it to report the color and or size.

Then you would know the dispersal patters from different locations and altitudes.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Petros312

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Extra ordinary claims...require extraordinary evidence.

Well this slogan doesn't excuse debunkers from typical unfair debate tactics assigning the burden of proof to chemtrailers alone while they confound explanations of normal jet aircraft activity and contrail formation with what's actually happening in the sky at any given time and any given location, and that includes with or without the presence of contrails. In fact, given they don't see the error of this approach, they're doing it right here.

Moreover, given the history of open air testing that's occurred in the USA in and near populated areas, I don't find claims about toxins in the air to be "extraordinary."

I say anyone on a conspiracy site that would guarantee without a doubt that chemtrails aren't real, needs to adjust their tinfoil hat, it is on way too tight.

- The air and soil are tested every day by thousands of independent labs worldwide....nothing found.
- Dropping anything at 30,000 is an idiotic way of getting things to fall on people as you have no NO idea where the particulates will land. This is not up for debate.
- 20 years of spraying. Not a SINGLE shred of evidence.
- 20 years of spraying...no sign of anyone dying off, getting ill, becoming superhuman...whatever you chemmies think the reason for spraying is this week.

Sorry...but im just going to say it...you have to be a bit of a gullible fool to believe this ridiculous conspiracy. And thats me being very polite.

Did you just call me a "chemmie"?

I am not one to say either way on the subject, so I wouldn't call me a "chemmie" just because I won't rule it out.

Tuskegee experiments- true the gov did this.
Intentionally placing personal way too close to the A-bomb tests....true as well

Irradiating milk and then giving it the mentally retarded to test the results of internal radiation exposure....check.

Just saying man, the gov has done some pretty messed up stuff over the years.

But this is the one subject you will fixate on a claim "NO WAY!!!"

Seriously?

I never stop doubting that they would do anything.

Is Obama a secret illegal alien with a faked BS?

I don't think so, but I suppose it could be possible.

Did we fake the moon landings?

I like to think we actually did it, but it is possible I guess they faked it.

Don't be so closed minded.

There are always many possibilities, even ones we never think of.

a reply to: Petros312

The problem is every chemtrailer sees every contrail as a chemtrail.

There will be around 70,000 aircraft movements a day around the world if lots of spraying was going on where is as others have stated ALL the evidence that would be generated on the ground.

It's more likely like MOST conspiracy theories they are ONLY theories!

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Since I am either a fool, or a paid shill, our conversation is pointless.
But just for fun, how do you know one was not a contrail?

ETA:
contrails are explained here:
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

I don't "know" anything, but I think that until someone can offer a valid answer as to why a white puffy line in the sky left from a plane at 25-35 thousand feet, it's reasonable to believe it's a contrail. To think otherwise with no evidence is akin to believing there is a man in the refrigerator that is in charge of the light.

I spent 6 hours one day thinking i would wear him down and catch him slipping.

But even after opening the fridge unexpectedly for the thousandth time he was still elusive to me.

I will catch that damned guy one of these days.

a reply to: johnwick

I'm gonna get a camera in there. The truth must come out!

a reply to: network dude
I did that already. There is no man in the fridge pushing the button even though I wanted him to be there. It's just a button, but for the life of me I can't figure out how it's being pushed

Please delete this, I'm typing on my phone and something went haywire! Sorry mods and members for wasting time and BW.

Thanks for another well written and carefully considered thread. I just want to mention that I see persistent contrails often in Seattle, and I believe that a good number of these that I have witnessed were probably "chemtrails". I believe this did a couple of reasons... There is an apparent correlation between the formations and weather changes (sudden), and the grid patterns do not match typical flight paths to any of the numerous airports in my area. I have watched a town meeting in California where residents were asking for disclosure of the health risks due to whatever is being sprayed, and several doctors/scientists started that they believed that there had been an increase in respiratory and mental health issues that were most likely directly related to inhalation of toxic substances and the alleged spraying.

I also have a bias in that I do not trust our government, but I base this on numerous personal experiences so do not find it to be even a partial stretch to think that an agency is using airplanes as some sort of delivery system for a project (secret) that may have the potential to damage biological creatures like rats or even men/women.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Is there any real reason to not believe in chemtrails other than "you don't want to because Science"?

Is there a reason to believe chemtrails exist without actually having scientific evidence they do?

The fact this issue exists

Only to those who refuse to actually understand what they are seeing.

a reply to: Petros312

Chemtrailer "Those aren't contrails, contrails can't hang around and spread out across the sky!"

Debunker "Why not?"

Chemtrailer "Erm...."

originally posted by: seattlerat
Thanks for another well written and carefully considered thread. I just want to mention that I see persistent contrails often in Seattle, and I believe that a good number of these that I have witnessed were probably "chemtrails". I believe this did a couple of reasons... There is an apparent correlation between the formations and weather changes (sudden)

Persistent contrails and other types of cirrus cloud will often precede an approaching weather front as humidity at altitude increases

and the grid patterns do not match typical flight paths to any of the numerous airports in my area.

Flights to and from airports in your area will be too low to create contrails. What you are seeing will, most likely be from flyover traffic using the radio beacons at the airports for navigation. This site shows high level flight paths, you can zoom in on your area

I have watched a town meeting in California where residents were asking for disclosure of the health risks due to whatever is being sprayed, and several doctors/scientists started that they believed that there had been an increase in respiratory and mental health issues that were most likely directly related to inhalation of toxic substances and the alleged spraying.

Chemtrail believers are concerned about chemtrails. What's new? Check out who some of the people in that video are though

I also have a bias in that I do not trust our government, but I base this on numerous personal experiences so do not find it to be even a partial stretch to think that an agency is using airplanes as some sort of delivery system for a project (secret) that may have the potential to damage biological creatures like rats or even men/women.

Governments have done bad things therefore anything bad that they are accused of must be true is not a good argument

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
a reply to: network dude
If it was possible for the pilot of the plane leaving the "persistent contrail" to turn said contrail on and off at his discretion while I am watching then I would say it was a normal contrail. I have been watching and studying this for over 10 years and I'm well aware how contrails are formed.

If you are well aware of how contrails are formed then you'll fully understand how a contrail can be 'turned on and off' and how planes at different altitudes can produce different trails.

If you don't understand then maybe you're not as aware as you think you are.

a reply to: mrthumpy

I appreciate your input, however, I still have a nagging feeling that something about what is going on is perhaps more than your plausible explanations suggest. I freely admit that I probably don't have enough information to determine one way or another what is going on if anything. I guess my interest is in getting replies like yours that make me rethink how I think multiple times from multiple views. I don't want to convince people that there is a conspiracy, to me it is more of something that personal experience and belief move me to learn more. If my dad wasn't so pro government I may have become a more trusting individual. A lot of what we believe comes down to trust when we don't have the opportunity or resources to investigate a curiosity firsthand.

originally posted by: OveRcuRrEnteD
a reply to: network dude
If it was possible for the pilot of the plane leaving the "persistent contrail" to turn said contrail on and off at his discretion while I am watching then I would say it was a normal contrail. I have been watching and studying this for over 10 years and I'm well aware how contrails are formed. Great job taking my statement out of context too. It would have been more appropriate to quote me like this: "...weather modification is real. Anyone who tries to deny that fact is either a fool or a dis-info agent." Believe what you want, it makes no difference to me.

I don't think I am allowed to explain this to you since it would be an underhanded trick according to the OP, but I'll risk it anyway. Have you ever noticed how on a semi cloudy day, there are patches of blue sky in between clouds? It's that way because the air up there isn't always the same. So one area might be a perfect place for contrails to live, yet another may not.

Now I am going to go for broke here and link the horrible antithesis to all chemtrail believers in order to better explain this. contrailscience.com...

If you check out that link, it explains it very well.

If you chose not to check this out, that's fine too, but please know that a scientific reason for what you saw exists and can explain why it's likely just another contrail.

OP, I throw myself at your mercy for deploying the dastardly tricks I have in this post. Shame on me.

a reply to: seattlerat

It's perfectly acceptable to understand contrails and still not trust the Government.

And it's also a good idea to keep an eye out for unusual things and ask questions whey you see them. I'd like to think that's a good reason this site exists. Even if it offends the OP.

originally posted by: seattlerat
a reply to: mrthumpy

I appreciate your input, however, I still have a nagging feeling that something about what is going on is perhaps more than your plausible explanations suggest. I freely admit that I probably don't have enough information to determine one way or another what is going on if anything. I guess my interest is in getting replies like yours that make me rethink how I think multiple times from multiple views. I don't want to convince people that there is a conspiracy, to me it is more of something that personal experience and belief move me to learn more. If my dad wasn't so pro government I may have become a more trusting individual. A lot of what we believe comes down to trust when we don't have the opportunity or resources to investigate a curiosity firsthand.

No we don't have the opportunity or resources to investigate first hand, but contrails and atmospheric physics have been studied in depth for decades and there is a lot of information freely available.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Petrie, you captured the debunkers condescension & judgmental attitude perfectly.

Good part 5!

meh...i think its acceptable to be a bit condescending to adults who consistently argue with childish reasoning and go against established scientific proof.

The fact this issue exists, & gives you reason to think being condescending is good/ok/beneficial/warranted is what's wrong with society.

Is there any real reason to not believe in chemtrails other than "you don't want to because Science"?

I expect the idea that your world might fall apart for whatever reason due to whatever cause terrifies you (& most long term conditioned humans), thus you vehemently deny any possibility, such as chemtrails.

I'm not saying you should be like me & hope chemtrails are real because the alternate is terribly boring, but firmly standing by Science, a field fraught with conditioning, bias, & assumptions just makes you look like a sheep, in my eyes.

I don't believe anything told me by "the system", which includes all aspects of science, government, & the corporatacracy.

The chemtrail believers are at least open to possibilities, the deniers just cling to their infallible knowledge of hearsay & hope.

First of all, how exhausting it must be to be so full of distrust in every aspect of life....but moving on.

I dont believe in chemtrails and believe the science because I UNDERSTAND it. Its not terribly complicated science and i get it. The explanations work. They have been proven to be true. And unlike others on this site....my first thought isnt "wait a second...someone must STILL be lying to me about this", its "cool. Man, i love science"

And please spare me the psychobabble crap of i accept everything because im scared and my world would fall apart if the (basic i might add) scientific principles i believe in were not true. What utter tosh. Im open to the science i know being wrong. Because that's what science is...its self correcting. But until proper scientists come out and say "hey...we were wrong about contrail formation...here why" im going to assume its correct. Because assuming everyone in lying and everything is a conspiracy is a CRAZY way to live your short life. Instead of being paranoid...try learning.

I mean, seriously, try picking up books or going to websites and learning what you distrust so much

And no..i don't trust my government one iota. F**k them all.

But that doesn't mean i don't trust scientists and science and established principles.