Spirituality might work if it wasn't so stupid.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Michael Jackson left his body when he died.

What's the difference between a dead body and a body that is alive and moving around? Something must leave the body upon death right? If you examine someone right before and right after death the body will look exactly the same. So what is it that makes a living body alive and a dead body dead?

There MUST be some difference right? Or is it your view does not account for this difference and instead you look the other way?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

A living body still works. A dead one doesn't. Do you disagree with this?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What makes a body "work"? There is still blood, a heart, a brain, a digestive system, etc. So if we are only a body then those things should still work because they are still in the body upon death. But when we die they stop working, so what is that "thing" that allows the body to work?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The body itself. When its structure fails, or is attacked, or is otherwise impeded, it stops working. Is this untre?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Do we give mouth to mouth resuscitation to coax a ghost back into the machine?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

Then let's work with an example. How is Michael Jackson not his body?

It is quite obvious he did the moonwalk. We know what he looked like. We know he's deceased. It seems obvious to me he is his body, and we have countless images to prove that he was. Type his name in Google images.

Now what evidence do you have that he was not his body?

Your example is based on the fact that most people do assume they are just the body, and they call each other by name. (But even those that understand they are more than the body, obviously find it convenient to call one another by their name. )

Your example only shows that people assume they are the body and call each other by name - it does not prove they are the body. How does your logic actually prove they are? It is again the "self-evident" argument.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
How is it an assumption? I'd love to hear your perfect logic on this one.

See above.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What about its structure fails? The brain is still present when someone dies naturally, the same structure is present before and after death. There has to be something that causes the death of something other than the body itself otherwise our bodies would never die.

What are thoughts and dreams? Are they physical or immaterial? When I think of a pink elephant, is there literally a physical, flesh and blood pink elephant in my brain? What is love? Hate? Fear? Anxiety? Memories? What are those things? They're not the body otherwise we would be able to see them in action but we do not. How does a turtle know its way back to its birth place from thousands of miles away?

A person isn't dead until the brain becomes totally inactive. Resuscitating someone gives air to the lungs which takes oxygen to the brain which allows it to continue functioning.

a reply to: bb23108

Oh you talk to bodies and call them by name because it is convenient for you. Hilarious, bb.

Is that the extent of your evidence?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There are many reasons one can die. None of them include a ghost leaving the body. I'm not going to explain to you why people die. We aren't children.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What is the reason someone dies naturally? The structure of the brain is the same the moment before as it is the moment after. So what is it that's different before and after death? Don't avoid the question.

What about those things I listed? Love, hate, fear, anxiety, memories, etc. You failed to address that part of my post.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
Obviously I understand that people assume they are the body. You have given no proof that you are simply the body.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The body stops functioning. Do you really not understand this? This occurs for many reasons.

a reply to: bb23108

I'm not sending you a picture, so let's stick with Michael Jackson. So how am I wrong or being assumptive that Michael Jackson is not his body?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Is that the extent of your evidence?

I have repeatedly said that it is self-evident to me in all kinds of ways that I am fundamentally awareness, not the body-mind.

Obviously I am associated with this body-mind until it dies, but that does not mean I am fundamentally the body-mind - even if you can google my name and see pics of me! Is that the extent of your evidence, LesMis? Google?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: bb23108

I'm not sending you a picture, so let's stick with Michael Jackson. So how am I wrong or being assumptive that Michael Jackson is not his body?

He was associated with the body-mind we called Michael Jackson - and he probably even assumed he was the body-mind. But this does not PROVE he was the body-mind.

a reply to: bb23108

Yes you have repeatedly said it is self-evident, but you have not once given reason why it is.

Who was associated with the body-mind michael Jackson?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Do we give mouth to mouth resuscitation to coax a ghost back into the machine?

LOL. I am biased - I would have to check its sex and perhaps even its age.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's not an answer. That's like answering "what time is it" with "it's some time". Dying IS the body stopping functioning so how can you say death is the reason for death? Circular logic. Your view does not take into account the reason for natural death which is why you do not have an answer.

I asked you what makes the body stop functioning, you said the structure fails, I point out the structure is the same before and after death, you then fall back on the body stopping functioning again. You're taking yourself around in circles.

What is it that makes a body stop functioning? IF you say the structure fails then you are yet again going in circles.

What are thoughts, dreams, memories, love, hate, fear, anxiety, hope, depression, etc.? You ignored that part of my post again. Is there a reason behind that?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What is intelligence? What is math? They are abstract concepts so they are not physical and not the body yet our bodies still facilitate them. What allows someone to learn to play guitar? What facilitates those neurons in the brain to connect in a certain way for a guitar to be played?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What? You're serious aren't you.

Disease, trauma, starvation...the list goes on.

We've talked about your dreams and thoughts ad nauseum. You have obviously ignored me, because you incessantly keep talking about them.