What secrets still lurk at Area 51?

Area 51, Groom Lake, Dreamland, S-4....Every conspiracy theorist worth his salt knows the history of the secret base that is not so secret anymore. And history will tell us that Area 51 is capable of keeping secrets-in fact certain aircraft like the OXCART (the precursor of the SR-71) could have remained a secret for decades if external forces didn't force it out of the shadows.

By early 1964 the argument for disclosure had become persuasive. More A-12s were arriving at the test site and making more flights. The aircraft’s existence probably would be revealed eventually under circumstances the US government could not control, such as a training accident or equipment malfunction, or through a news leak.

On 29 February 1964, the National Security Council decided to surface OXCART. Later that day, the White House announced the successful development of an advanced experimental aircraft, the A‑11, which has been tested in sustained flight at more than 2,000 miles per hour and at altitudes in excess of 70,000 feet

CIA

The OXCART was well ahead of it's time-And Fifty years later it's child the blackbird is still recognized as the fastest manned aircraft to have ever taken to the skies. Other black budget enterprises such as the Nighthawk and the Predator were not as fast but remained in development for decades before being revealed to the public.

So that begs the question-If black budget aviation projects that are decades ahead of it's time can remain secret for decades, then what top secret projects are making test flights as we speak? The fabled Aurora project immediately comes to mind, but how long will it take before such projects are unveiled to the public, or conversely has the advancement in technology ensured that the next blackbird will never be discovered?

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I recommend the aviation forum here at ATS to answer some of your questions.

Plenty to read up on over there. You wanna learn about the future? You wanna learn about things that far exceed the tech from the sr-71? Go there. But as a warning, you'll get more than you can handle if you decide to wander down that rabbit hole.

But if eye openers are what you are looking for the aviation forum is one of the finest forums here at ATS. period. I can recommend threads if interested. but just go over there and click on just about anyone of em. Oh except the AESA thread. Whatever you do, DO NOT read the last few pages of THAT thread.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

The Predator was never a secret.

There is no S-4.

Likely lots of failed aircraft designs or designs considered to expensive to produce.
Weapon systems to sensitive for public disclosure. Same with engine designs. mainly things based on partical weapons and nuclear engines (in conjunction with Los Almos labs) ect electromagnetic warfare designs, stealth concepts. And likely stockpiles of sensitive supplies in case WW3 ever kicks off.

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

The Predator was never a secret.

There is no S-4.

I know S-4 doesn't exist, but it's synonymous with Area 51 so that's why I mentioned it.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Fair enough. In case you didn't know. It's safe to say Gariac kinda, sorta, knows A LOT about "Area 51." If there's anyone's posts here that you can feel confident following it's his.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I recommend the aviation forum here at ATS to answer some of your questions.

Plenty to read up on over there. You wanna learn about the future? You wanna learn about things that far exceed the tech from the sr-71? Go there. But as a warning, you'll get more than you can handle if you decide to wander down that rabbit hole.

But if eye openers are what you are looking for the aviation forum is one of the finest forums here at ATS. period. I can recommend threads if interested. but just go over there and click on just about anyone of em. Oh except the AESA thread. Whatever you do, DO NOT read the last few pages of THAT thread.

Thank you, i'll be sure to check it out.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I can be more annoying. ;-) Dreamland refers to the airspace, not the base. You can find Dreamland in various FAA documents.

What you find at Groom Lake in my opinion is technology pushing the envelope. When you engineer any product, you don't want to venture too far from what worked in the past. So to fly a little higher or faster isn't as big of a deal as it looks. Rather you make something that is less cost effective and probably harder to produce / maintain.

In Silicon Valley speak, the technology you want to invent should be "disruptive." I'm have a hard time thinking of any aircraft technology that classifies as disruptive other than the creation of the jet engine. Now weapon systems on the other hand have had many disruptive breakpoints, especially regarding missile controls. (Heat seeking, radiation seeking, tow, gps, etc.)

a reply to: Thecakeisalie
The fabled Aurora project immediately comes to mind, but how long will it take before such projects are unveiled to the public, or conversely has the advancement in technology ensured that the next blackbird will never be discovered?

Its my guess that the Aurora/Astra projects will never be revealed because of 1) advancements in technology and 2) because of the threat from the Russians. The triangular craft have been spotted at night over the Philipines, which I take it to mean the Air Force is using them for surveillance in the eastern Pacific. They'll never unveil or reveal this technology in our lifetimes.

a reply to: TonyS

Id actually like to hear about these Philippine sightings. Any place or links you can send me to so I can check them out?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I'm interested in what's going on in the Puerto Rico area. Call it a hunch, but...

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: TonyS

Id actually like to hear about these Philippine sightings. Any place or links you can send me to so I can check them out?

I'll see what I can find and get back to you.

a reply to: TonyS

Right on. Please do. I'd totally be interested to read up on them for personal reasons.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: TonyS

Right on. Please do. I'd totally be interested to read up on them for personal reasons.

www.latest-ufo-sightings.net...
www.ufostalker.com...

www.meetstheweird.com...

I've actually always assumed that Area 51 was a complete decoy.

A secret base that everyone knows is there?

I would think that the military was more than happy for everyone to be poking around at Area 51, while the actual secret work was going on at some other location, which was REALLY secret.

Area 51 is all the rage in conspiracy theory circles. If you are REALLY trying to cover up a conspiracy, it's doubtful that the public has even heard of the actual locations being used.

What better than to setup a base that you TELL everyone is "Secret" and drive conspiracy theory people to investigate it, while all the while the actual clandestine work is going on somewhere else.

a reply to: babybunnies

Area 51 is the real area. Several people on ATS have been there and worked with projects flying out of there. It's quite real.

originally posted by: babybunnies
I've actually always assumed that Area 51 was a complete decoy.

A secret base that everyone knows is there?

I would think that the military was more than happy for everyone to be poking around at Area 51, while the actual secret work was going on at some other location, which was REALLY secret.

Area 51 is all the rage in conspiracy theory circles. If you are REALLY trying to cover up a conspiracy, it's doubtful that the public has even heard of the actual locations being used.

What better than to setup a base that you TELL everyone is "Secret" and drive conspiracy theory people to investigate it, while all the while the actual clandestine work is going on somewhere else.

Much like Godwin's law, the "Area 51 as a decoy" nonsense pops up. Every year the base gets bigger, but some people refuse to believe photographic evidence. Rather they believe their own speculation that is devoid of any evidence.

Do you have any concept whatsoever how hard it is to watch Groom Lake. And even if you see the base, consider the duty cycle.

I'm confident Groom Lake remains unobserved at least 95% of the time.

On our last hike, the base didn't do much of anything on the first day. When we didn't leave, they sent some fixed wing aircraft around midnight to check out the camp. My guess is they wanted to verify with thermal imaging that we hadn't wandered off.

a reply to: gariac

You wouldn't happen to have any photographic evidence the base exists would you Gariac?

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: gariac

You wouldn't happen to have any photographic evidence the base exists would you Gariac?

www.lazygranch.com...

I mean seriously, who builds a four story high hangar as a decoy.

a reply to: babybunnies

There's a distinct difference between knowing that the base exists and knowing anything about what goes on inside. Regardless of how well known the base itself is, as gariac points out, it is still very remote and is probably still completely unobserved the vast majority of the time. Additionally, despite the fact the bases existence has been common knowledge for 20 years if not longer, as far as I'm aware apart from Swissmountainbat there have never been any corroborated sightings at the base (I'd like to be proved wrong in this).