Men - The Forgotten Gender

a reply to: maddy21

Wow you have some pretty disgusting ideas, and downplaying rape in such a way is beyond ignorant.

a reply to: maddy21

According National Commission for Women (NCW) misuse of anti-dowry law is minimal.

Reacting to the Supreme Court order which ruled that police cannot arrest the accused in dowry cases automatically, she said that misuse of anti-dowry law or domestic violence law was very low.
"Of course, the misuse is a concern, but then the percentage of misuse is very low. Just for that we should not dilute the law, rather look at it from a broader and long term perspective," she said.

The Times of India
I am not saying those do not happen, but the scale seems to be exaggerated. National Crime Records Bureau statistics, nearly 200 000 people were arrested due dowry offenses and 48 000 of them were women, but only 15% of the cases lead to convictions, and main reason to the dropping of cases is that both parties got tired of it and women usually settle for nothing to just getting out of the legal process. Keep in mind that The National Family Health Survey found out that 54% of Indian females and 51% of Indian males saw domestic violence, husband beating a wife acceptable and justifiable. If the 48 000 of cases of females were misusing 498A there are still 152 000 cases of extortion and dowry killings and only 15% of all these cases lead to actual convictions.

Old traditions are what keeps India down. Dowry system even its illegal is seen beneficial to both sides, even its an old stuck idea which has no ground instead is misused widely. Family of females believes with dowries they can buy better life conditions to their daughter to get her in a tad upper caste than they are, for male side of family the reason is obvious. There are 3 000 castes and over 25 000 subcastes to play with, when a girl is married, she moves in to live with her parents in Law's house and serve them, if the female comes from lower caste she is treated like it. Caste purity (do not touch lower caste) in the marital bed leads often domestic rapes, even there are over 24 000 illegal rape cases ( only fraction are reported ) in India, domestic "legal" marital rapes rarely go to court. In last 16 years over 300 000 farmers have committed a suicide because of the debt and personal bankruptcy when they couldn´t pay the dowries demanded. 2011 suicides of the farmers reached 14 000 and suicides of the wives in age 15-29 reached 25 000 that the age when they are married.
Domestic violence in India PDF

originally posted by: Elementalist
Today's men, would not survive the times of old. Men have become passified, weak, careless, disrespectful, full of ideas and opinions, loss of heart and care (especially of women).

The "men"I see coming up in yhe world today, are polar opposite of what a man has always resembled.

The future is up to the women me thinks, lol.

You sound very sexist, myopic, ignorant.

Not that women are the only reason, but much the younger generation of men were raised by single women and became mamas boys or became mamas boys anyway. Not to mention growing up hearing about how screwed up men were and their father was ect. Really then when we discuss the mew generation of men and their problems women as a major cause are going to have to take their place at that table.

a reply to: dollukka

Men in the US for decades starting in the 70s have been absolutely abused in domestic litigation. For every one woman that really needed to get away from a man there were ten times that number of blood sucking vanpirella to be had.

That has started to change a few years back but the years were dark and ugly.

a reply to: Logarock

blood sucking vanpirella to be had.

I guess that's just my damn luck...I only saw those in movies.

oh joy!! another thread to play in!!!

as far as the domestic litigation goes-
I got a feeling that as the genders gain income equality they will also gain eqaulity in the domestic litigation
but well there's money to be had (or lost) on the side of the gov't so so the courts will always decide in whatever way best serves in that one financial aspect!!!

unfortunately it seems that our gov't and big business has decided that that equality should be achieved by bringing the wages of men down to the level that women were earning instead of trying to elevate women's wages

a reply to: Logarock

Women were porvided for in Divorce cases, because it was still common in the 70's for women not to work but to marry and be housewives.

It bugs me today, that women bear the brunt of low wages and crappy jobs and cries of why should we employ women of child bearing age blah b;lah blah.
You enter into a contract with a man that you will bear children and take the hit on salery may even be a stay at home mother which hits your earning potential even more when you go back to work, but then you divorce and suddenly he's off scot free.
I'd have it written into a contract, we chose to have children together, you happily let me take the hit on earnings you need to supply a top up.

originally posted by: Elementalist
Today's men, would not survive the times of old. Men have become passified, weak, careless, disrespectful, full of ideas and opinions, loss of heart and care (especially of women).

The "men"I see coming up in yhe world today, are polar opposite of what a man has always resembled.

The future is up to the women me thinks, lol.

You do understand that the Human race and each society has constantly evolved, right?
When you say "what a man has always resembled", you are being incredibly simplistic. Societies have changed constantly, the roles of men and the power we have in a society have constantly evolved and changed, and this has happened within only two or three generations at a time.

What you're really saying is "when I was young..."
That's not a sensible way to look at anything, and it really only relates to you and your fear of progress and change, in the same way many right-wing groups seem to want to attack any kind of social progress because they simply can't understand it.

If we stop now, if we force societies to go backward to some kind of imagined "utopia" (which usually seems to be a conservative society where the complainant would have power over others) then we will almost cease to evolve as societies and most of the freedoms and rights you now enjoy would be devolved.

Most of this seems to be about older people constantly complaining about how things have changed so much since they were kids. Well, the same happened to your parents too, it's called social evolution and it's a good thing.

Now if only places like India could catch up with the rest of the world, then maybe the women there would not be seeing the kind of attitudes of men who believe they have a RIGHT to rape women and children?

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: maddy21

This sentence here sounds pretty ridiculous. Abusing husbands for personal profit ??? Where the hell do you live ???

Watch the Video , the laws in India can be used and abused by women without any risk to themselves ...

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: maddy21
Wow you have some pretty disgusting ideas, and downplaying rape in such a way is beyond ignorant.

"Downplay Rape"....that's new.. accuse someone of something he did not do. When more than 65% of the rape cases is the capital are false its the women themselves which are "downplaying Rape" by misusing the very laws meant to protect them.

a reply to: maddy21

When rapes which cannot be proved are clasified as false claims then no i dont blame the women.
And downplaying rape saying that somebody not believing your claims is as bad as rape is just ridiculous.
It's almost akin to holocaust denial, this new play to try and whitewash 1000's of years of the abuse of women.
Men are not some abused minority, they hold most of the positions of power in politics, finance government.
yet somehow women are the abusers, you need a reality check.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: dollukka

Men in the US for decades starting in the 70s have been absolutely abused in domestic litigation. For every one woman that really needed to get away from a man there were ten times that number of blood sucking vanpirella to be had.

That has started to change a few years back but the years were dark and ugly.

I remember the 90's when it was still pretty recessive here in Canada. Almost ALL of the men that I knew coming up in the construction industry were living off half their after-tax pay because their wife left them and took the kids. The economy is better now so I don't hear as many gripes but if you owe your ex any child support you are not entitled to a drivers license.

I did not watch the video I admit. do not have time right now.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: maddy21

When rapes which cannot be proved are clasified as false claims then no i dont blame the women.
And downplaying rape saying that somebody not believing your claims is as bad as rape is just ridiculous.
It's almost akin to holocaust denial, this new play to try and whitewash 1000's of years of the abuse of women.
Men are not some abused minority, they hold most of the positions of power in politics, finance government.
yet somehow women are the abusers, you need a reality check.

These aren't my claims, this is the reality. Denying it or ignoring it is not going to change it. You get to positions of power because of merit. Should we put women into powerful positions just to please the opposite gender ? If you have the capability you have the freedom to reach anywhere ...

a reply to: dollukka

I'm going to assume that you're a feminist based on all the information, and your opinion that "Women have it worse then men, so why should i care about a man's problems?". I always find that view amusing, given the "feminism is about equality." For someone to be about equality but willfully ignore issues one gender faces in favor of another gender's issues, is like a fireman going "That house's fire isn't that bad, let's save the water for a house that's really burning down."

Somewhere on ATS is a thread about men giving up on women, I think the above explanes why, especially when I look at California divorce.

a reply to: maddy21

oh come on, who holds the power here in the UK? public school educated posh boys, yet they got there through merit?
No they didnt, they got there through connections and knowing the right people and the boys club mentality.
Your basically syaing women dont hold many positions or power because we are incapable of it, which is a load of mysogynistic rubbish.
The fact is many countries are now starting to look at not having enough evidence to prosecute for rape as beinga false acccusation but this is patently not true.

originally posted by: Evil_Santa
a reply to: dollukka

I'm going to assume that you're a feminist based on all the information, and your opinion that "Women have it worse then men, so why should i care about a man's problems?". I always find that view amusing, given the "feminism is about equality." For someone to be about equality but willfully ignore issues one gender faces in favor of another gender's issues, is like a fireman going "That house's fire isn't that bad, let's save the water for a house that's really burning down."

Your whole post is based on the assumption that the person you replied to is a feminist. Perhaps you should let them confirm or deny if they're a feminist before you start bashing feminism? Or are you itching for a reason to take a swipe at a movement that is claimed to have destroyed many lives and families?

originally posted by: pikestaff
Somewhere on ATS is a thread about men giving up on women, I think the above explanes why, especially when I look at California divorce.

Yeah I remember commenting on the first page of that thread asking why I should be concerned that a small percentage of men were staying away from sex and relationships when the population of the world continues to boom, care to answer?

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: maddy21

oh come on, who holds the power here in the UK? public school educated posh boys, yet they got there through merit?
No they didnt, they got there through connections and knowing the right people and the boys club mentality.
Your basically syaing women dont hold many positions or power because we are incapable of it, which is a load of mysogynistic rubbish.
The fact is many countries are now starting to look at not having enough evidence to prosecute for rape as beinga false acccusation but this is patently not true.

And also to add to this, no one wants to be the token female/minority in a boardroom just so the company/organisation can call themselves diverse. I applaud your post.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

also I believe that if you read through that thread you will find that there were many posts where they men weren't planning on giving up on sex with women just women!!!

Some started a thread on weather or not denying a spouse sex for extended periods would be grounds for divorce and well some of those answers are basically saying that it should be.