Guilt trip propeganda by the US and UK for islamic terrorists?

a reply to: kayleighkitty

Well, you brought up some interesting points in your OP, and so I would like to address the ones which jumped out at me right off the bat.

1) First, it IS important to illuminate the devastation that people cause, not just in the obvious ways, with their bombs, knives, and bullets, but also amongst their own families, in broken hearts. You see, because the population of ANY nation is prone to a certain amount of carelessness in forming opinions, it is possible for a demographic to come under fire because of the actions of a small minority within that demographic. That should never be the case, and in an ideal world, where all citizens were educated to a high minimum standard, allowing all citizens to understand terms like Brain Washing, and the actual in depth meaning of the term, it would not be the case.

However, it is, and therefore it is easier to blame the common feature which is the most visible, linking those who commit terror offences, that being the religious belief they claim to hold, rather than the ACTUAL problem at the heart of it, which is cultist brainwashing combined with a powder keg of geopolitical infighting between governments and a scab of powerlessness which I think all people are familiar with. Many things play into the capacity for a horrid organisation to gain the trust of those who are feeling that something is very wrong in the world. It does not help that many things ARE wrong in the world, and that no one seems to be sorting them out. This is the lever point, the fulcrum upon which force is applied by propagandists to prise open the mind, and insert a new, and often hellspawned paradigm, where the only response to what ails the world is fire, death, pain, crater strewn cities and the collapse of REAL moral values.

2) The presidents opinion on the specifics of the case you refer to could not be less important. Last I checked, he was the president of the USA, not the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. The reason that our PM, much as he is a hateful swine with all the warmth of heart one expects from a serial banking fraudster, will be quick to remind everyone that this state of affairs is not strictly a problem with religious belief, but one of criminal inhumanity, is that a failure to do so will result in innocent people being hurt in the event of white supremacists being allowed to take the initiative and use THEIR brain washing tactics on people, to formulate some sort of response at that end of things. Frankly, I would rather be blown to smithereens, than have anything to do with the BNP or any group as ignorant, blind, and utterly invalid as that bunch of Nazi bastards. They should not be allowed to operate on this soil, any more than Islamic terror groups should. They are as morally retarded as one another, and honestly, why we do not round up all extremist xenophobes together, and let them massacre one another on some desolate island somewhere, is a question which has been beating the hell out of me for some time.

Backlash, and preventing it, is SOOOO important that even though I hate our PM so much that the idea of being stuck in a room which contained only him, and a half brick, makes me sweat with glee, I cannot fault him for his comments on this issue. You see, xenophobic extremism of one sort, breeds xenophobic extremism of another, unless everyone is made fully aware of the stupidity of the first instance of it, and is made aware that no one is getting away with it, no matter which "side" they are on.

originally posted by: kayleighkitty

However, why are these big western powers so fast to make us feel sorry for these people

Maybe because they don't want the people to start calling for their heads. If they are named "Islamic terrorism" then our leaders and the people could try and find ways to okay the corralling of Muslims in the US and the UK. You said in your post that you believe they are mostly peaceful. I think as most people do, that it would be more beneficial to them and their cause if they started to denounce the terrorists with louder voices, but they are scared. Wouldn't you be scared?

Imagine the Jews in Germany, right before they were corralled off. They were scared too and instead of helping them as most of the German people should have done they either hid in their homes when the Jews were carted off or they spit on them, and shouted "hip hip hooray" . Maybe if the Germans would have felt a bit more guilt they would have stood up to their leaders and questioned them.

I do not care for Obama one bit, but in this I think he is right. Even if his reasoning behind it is not. I do also agree that the victims deserve to have their story told. But, if Obama were to give name to the terrorists, the people would have that excuse they need and want to go after them. If he does that people will cry to the wolves "get em".

I look at some of the comments here, throughout this site and all over the internet, people are calling for their heads....they are calling for them in America, Jesus, these are freaking human beings, many of them are children and mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grandmas, aunts, uncles, friends, some of them are our co-workers, but all are humans like you and me. What they need before things get crazy is empathy. Imagine being in their shoes, people are doing horrible things and trying to claim it is in their name. Imagine the Terrorists were Atheists doing it in the name of Atheism, or Christians doing it in the name of all Christians, and Buddhists, and so on. How would you feel if you were afraid to leave your home?

What we all need is not only sympathy and empathy but we all could use a little bit of rational thought as well. We need to stop blaming a whole group for the actions of a few. To call it Islamic Terrorism is to give all of Islam a bad name. Just stop it already. Show them they if they are peaceful they have nothing to fear, stand with them in the name of human beings.

I feel no guilt, nor will I feel any. But neither will I sit by and watch fellow human beings being carted off and do nothing about it. That might happen if the people claim there is a reason to. Try to see things beyond the hatred for Obama ( I can't stand him either). There is good reason to not name them.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

I don't care what it looks like to you or anyone else.


I don't associate with extremists.

So I'm not gonna go out of my way to do so to alleviate your fears.



See I was born on Earth, with free will...

If I wanted to infiltrate those organisations I'd have become a member of a Counter-Terrorist Unit.


That's not my niche. I'm a lyricist.
Oh well.


Do you expect Italians to infiltrate the Mafia as well?

Or Irish people to infiltrate the Real IRA?

Or Japanese people to Infiltrate the Yakuza?

Or a Black American to infiltrate the Bloods & Crips?


You're living in a dream world where everyone is some sort of vigilante against "their own"...


Have fun with your neo-Nazi buddies...
& good luck explaining your way out when you're put in a position you don't want to be in.

I'm sure they'll understand.

No one asked you to do anything personally. I ask for moderate Islam to step up and do it as a group. But I've noticed you tend to change the subject rather than give an honest reply.


As for infiltration of groups. Yes every group you mentioned was infiltrated. Makes me wonder how many Muslims actually have those hanging down things that most men have?

a reply to: Greathouse

No one changed the subject this has all derived from your suggestion of infiltration.


Who were they infiltrated by?

Sources please!



& it's not about ball size & girth...


It's about knowing how to handle every situation that may possibly arise when infiltrating a group...

Specifically terrorists in this instance...




You may not have asked me personally, but you included me when you said moderates should infiltrate...

You haven't given a good reason as to why innocent, non violent, family men should join a terror cell & to what end?
What purpose?

What about the day they say "it's your turn to strap this dynamite vest on & run into the market"...
Then what?

Who's going to protect the person who infiltrated?




I think what you are suggesting has come from a good place...
But I also think it's poorly thought out & needlessly dangerous.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

No one changed the subject this has all derived from your suggestion of infiltration.


Who were they infiltrated by?

Sources please!



& it's not about ball size & girth...


It's about knowing how to handle every situation that may possibly arise when infiltrating a group...

Specifically terrorists in this instance...




You may not have asked me personally, but you included me when you said moderates should infiltrate...

You haven't given a good reason as to why innocent, non violent, family men should join a terror cell & to what end?
What purpose?

What about the day they say "it's your turn to strap this dynamite vest on & run into the market"...
Then what?

Who's going to protect the person who infiltrated?




I think what you are suggesting has come from a good place...
But I also think it's poorly thought out & needlessly dangerous.

Um yeah fighting terrorist is dangerous. Lol

And you change the subject when I addressed moderate Islam and you took it upon yourself to speak for moderate Islam. I could understand your reluctance to participate. Because here as listed in these coming sources there are plenty of brave men that were willing to. Apparently you're not brave enough to even consider the notion.


IRA infiltration

en.m.wikipedia.org...:_My_Undercover_Life_in_the_Mafia" target="_blank" class="postlink">mafia infiltration

infiltra ting gangs

a reply to: Greathouse

LoL I read the first 3 of that IRA source...

1 was working with British Authorities...
1 was in the British Armed Forces...
1 was an actual IRA member who turned into a traitor...



So two of them were trained for the job...
& one of them didn't infiltrate at all, but stabbed them in the back later down the line...






& second guessing what I'm willing to do by alluding to bravery...
That's brave from behind a computer screen...

You have no idea the difference between bravery and stupidity it seems...


& infiltrating an Islamic extremist group is stupid... Not brave.



I'll read your other link now...
I won't be surprised if all of them were trained for the job, rather than thrown a terrible suggestion on the Internet!


Edit: LoL Undercover Cops... In other words people trained for the job, under moniter...

That's exactly the same as a moderate Muslim leaving his day job in the Halal butchers to join up with a bunch of extremists...

Get real!


I don't believe a word you've said about infiltrating Neo-Nazis or anyone else...

None for you.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

LoL I read the first 3 of that IRA source...

1 was working with British Authorities...
1 was in the British Armed Forces...
1 was an actual IRA member who turned into a traitor...



So two of them were trained for the job...
& one of them didn't infiltrate at all, but stabbed them in the back later down the line...






& second guessing what I'm willing to do by alluding to bravery...
That's brave from behind a computer screen...

You have no idea the difference between bravery and stupidity it seems...


& infiltrating an Islamic extremist group is stupid... Not brave.



I'll read your other link now...
I won't be surprised if all of them were trained for the job, rather than thrown a terrible suggestion on the Internet!


Edit: LoL Undercover Cops... In other words people trained for the job, under moniter...

That's exactly the same as a moderate Muslim leaving his day job in the Halal butchers to join up with a bunch of extremists...

Get real!


I don't believe a word you've said about infiltrating Neo-Nazis or anyone else...

None for you.

Yup they use trained troops and traitors that's how it is done . lol!!!! ( no wonder you guys aren't any good at it!)