First time reading the Quran, My impression

originally posted by: LightAssassin
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Wrong, it is as Charlie said....it is the Angels delivering the message to Muhammed, when they speak of we. I suspect it is the same Angels who spoke the words 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness', yes, we were not created by God but by his understudies.

Ok, be fair now, that's not exactly what I said.

a reply to: MstWntd
I don't know how you come up with Jesus being Muslim. I might as well go around saying Mohammed was a Jew or Christian because he was supposedly mentioned in the bible. Jesus being Muslim is highly offensive to Christians but you hardly ever here them screaming about it.

a reply to: celticdog

No, most Quran's, including the 3 different copies I have, all have a synopsis within to elaborate on each verse.


I'd really like to see which Quran you are reading to be honest.



So... No... You don't need another book.

However there is seperate books available that do distinguish between the truth...

& what you're peddling!

a reply to: celticdog

Actually only people like you, I'm this day and age, deny they are the same God!


The God of Abraham/Jacob/Jesus/Muhammad (peace be upon them) is the only God...

One God...

Opposed to the pantheons of gods that the people around them believed in...


& the Jews and Christians at the time of Muhammad, accepted this to be so...

One God... & the Day of Judgement...

Abrahams God!



Names matter not, when it is the essence of the creator that is one in the same!

a reply to: MstWntd

I'm gonna enjoy your input a lot Mst...


But this...

Muslim means "he who submits his will to Allah".. Christians submit their will to Jesus (pbuh).. (He, himself submitted his will to Allah.. hence he was a Muslim). You see Muslims are not specifically in the religion you know as Islam.. Whoever submits his will to Allah and is honest in his dealings can quite rightly be on the path of a Muslim..

Will not be accepted here...

I've shared that wisdom previously and it went down like a fart in church...



Most of the people here, maybe even not most, but a lot of people here will not look at translations of Arabic words to grasp the meaning of what is being expressed.



I'll forewarn you of those who love, when debate goes sour for them, to instantly bring up either the fabricated myth of Aisha's age, or Taqiyya...

And no matter how you educate someone to the truth of those two...

They'll be in another thread asap spreading the same hatred.



Salam Alaykum

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: MstWntd
Fine here's your apology. I am sorry for hurting your feelings and lying like the bad kafir that I am. Praise be to Allah the ever loving ever merciful.

Quite contrived and unnecassary really.


No one is asking you to believe Allah is merciful...

Believe what you like...

But when you go out of your way to proselytise the opposite with disdainful outbursts...

Expect to be given what for.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
He wanted an apology but I should be offended by what he said but I am not. I wasn't proselytising with a disdainful outburst. It was a genuine look at the Qur'an. My bad for not being up to snuff since being new to it. The link is in the op what site I used for the Qur'an. People like me deny they are the same god , which I don't but the pope would have something to say about it. If is it all the same god then why do I have to convert to be Muslim to get all his mercy not some but all. Why, because you hold your religion as the true one then hence the circular reason. If all paths lead to the same place then your faith is no more true than the next no matter how out Landis the claim. If you get so offended by criticism then your faith is not that strong.

a reply to: celticdog

I'm not offended.



Here's an example of what your saying...



I don't believe Jesus is the way to Heaven...
*Insert Christian* does...

Who will get more mercy according to Christians?



Now you understand why Muslims will get more mercy, which is subjective anyways because some Muslims are going straight to Jahannam & I'm sure many non-believers will have a decent outlook when their deeds are weighed on the Scales of Justice.



Reading 4 Chapters out of 176, and then making a thread about your experience peddling the hate-rhetoric is proselytizing...

Whether intended or not!

The Hebrew/Christian Bible, Genesis to the Revelation, is arguably the whole and perfect Word of the Creator God, and He said to take nothing away from it nor to add thereunto. So, a few centuries after it was finished, along comes an Arab, whose people at the time were deep in idolatry, and proposes to add thereunto. Given what was already inspired by God, anything he had to say which was contrary to that Word can be dismissed out out hand, as not needed. If you already have the gold, why trade it in for mere silver? I reject the Book of Mormon for the exact same reason, and also the works of the SDA prophetess, E.G. White. She could not even make her mind up between eternal Hell and eternal destruction, and mentioned both. Those are the products of borrowing from others.

The prophet of Islam lived a carnal life, and preached a carnal gospel, involving not personal transformation along the lines of "God in you, the hope of glory," but pleasure in a carnal heaven filled with eternally virginal young girls. What Muslim can convince me to follow the teachings of a brigand, war monger, murderer, and rapist? I do not like being so blunt, but that's how it falls out.

in a carnal heaven filled with eternally virginal young girls.

Well Im queer so that me fekked


Its curious that JC made no mention that 800 years later humanity will be given a third? prophet to reboot humanity.. with extreme prejudice this time round ( a retrograde step if ever ) when things were ticking over just fine. I mean parachuting somebody in 800 years later But ok

I have no problem with religion - although its all rubbish. In fact I like listening to hymns and will happily sit in Church and listen attentively to sermons. I know the vicar or speaker doesn't really know the truth when he touches on the deity - and neither do I.


Sometimes the desperation for a miracle is embarrassing elevating the smallest thing to the status of evidence but its still comforting and nobody gets hurt. Where it comes apart is attacking other belief systems or doctrinal divergence. Then what existing goodwill and grace is lost – Because belief is just a conscious act of faith and has little to do with fact. Losing sight of that is dishonest as is killing for nothing more then an idea -

Carry on

a reply to: deadeyedick

Nice try but you are wrong.

Not really. We are just interpreting it differently. You think you're right. I think I am right. It often comes down to this with interpretation of scripture.

All the violence spoke of in the new testament is by God not man.

So that makes it good, right? It's good because it comes from 'god', no other considerations needed. That's called Divine Command Theory. I think that's absolutely horrible. To each their own.

Either way that is tangential to my post. My post was in reply to the notion there was no violence in the NT. It coming from god doesn't negate that.

Laz knows the difference between goodwill toward men, and goodwill toward evil systems. Evil systems would include Christian denominations which advocate eternal torture in Hell, and Islam which does the same.

a reply to: butcherguy

You have quoted a parable here.
You do understand the point of parables, right?

Are these also parables?

Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NIV

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

New Testament verses here [and the 'parable' I posted earlier) all highly suggest a condoning of slavery. My post was in response to the notion there was zero mistreatment of people in the New Testament. One could argue slavery was a necessity in those times... oh which I would muse over the notion an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god couldn't address the issue then and there *shrug*

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Absolutely.

Given the waters of religious texts are rather muddied, and even the Koran states the Hebrew Bible has been corrupted, ....yes, if God, in that particular verse in Genesis is speaking he should be saying let I make man in my image, after my likeness. But it switches to plural, and the folks at The Chronicle Project have proven that the entirety of the first part of Genesis actually refers to this group of 'angels' who are the ones who terraformed the planet, under instruction from 'God', and that they also created Man, under instruction from 'God'. If I remember correctly, they actually discovered it was God who made woman.

Then, of course it tells of how these 'angels' (they are actually called The originators) bred with human women. It's an interesting read for sure.

There are also the Sumerian/Babylonian texts, who speak of multiple gods (who could be the Angels) fashioning man from the sacrifice of ONE god. There are the MANY claims in the Koran and Hebrew bible of God being Lord of the Worlds. That he could have chosen other Worlds but he chose the Children of Israel instead.

This leads me to the understanding that this God and his understudies can move to multiple planets, and have terraformed and populated many planets.

I'm still reading the Koran....so give me time...and I'm not going to bash on it like the OP did...I respect all theological texts.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

?...maybe a teeny tiny variation

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: LightAssassin

We, is in reference to the Angels who share the message of Allah.


Nothing more, nothing less.


One God, many Angels!

originally posted by: r0xor
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Yeah but anything advocating killing and death is strictly in the Old Testament, which is only followed as a set of rules and/or examples in Judaism. Jesus even taught that the ten commandments were, dare I say, unrealistic.

To my knowledge there isn't a single instruction in the New Testament to commit any acts of violence or mistreatment on anyone, especially because of their faith, lack there-of, or any other mitigating factor.

It's a big difference.. in fact, there's a valley between Islam/Judaism and Christianity.

So you're removing the connection between the New Testament and Old Testament? That is one of the views that was stomped out as heretical during the formative years of the church. Also, the quote from Jesus: 'Think not that I have come to destroy or abolish the Torah. I have not come to abolish, but fulfill.'

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Gabriel...of course...but keep your cookie good sir....I dont eat carbs.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
That didn't explaining anything why Muslims get more mercy that was just a statement. I am arguing from the point of a christian that they are not the same god. It is your god is better than my god situation and you assume that yours is better and to a christian Allah is not nor will be their god. What do you think the crusades were about and why Christians and Muslims still fight today. Two ideologies and two gods.

When did criticising a belief become hate rhetoric. There are numerous religions that have silly beliefs and yours is not exempt. Like Mohamed going to heaven on a winged horse. It is can't see the forest for the trees type thing so look at it from my point of view. It seems you and the other guy can't have a normal discussion without attacking me but why not prove me wrong in a nice way.

If I made a thread about reading the bible for the first time and I only got through the first 5 chapters of genesis this is what I did with the Qur'an. See my point first impressions count.

a reply to: celticdog

So, we're really arguing whether Batman's book, or Superman's has more positivity / validity? It never seizes to amaze me why people trust a book that was not written by God or gods, but by mere humans. Last time I checked neither world religion claims that God picked up a pen. I find that rather curious … lol.

Never forget that the most powerful weapon is an idea planted in your head.