News coverage of vaccine controversies drives down support for vaccines

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Lol! You really believe that stars are an indicator of factual accuracy? Oh honey!

Snipped per previous mod instructions.

...Vitamin A supplementation....The argument you are using is that you imply that a concurrency implies correlation. This is not a logical argument.

I am not implying anything. Both the CDC and WHO (and others) have done the homework to establish and document Vitamin A supplementation as amazingly effective in reducing the severe complications of measles, including drastic reductions in morbidity rates. Both vaccines and vitamin A have played a major role in reducing both cases and deaths from measles.

May I quote the CDC:

Common Complications

Common measles complications include ear infections and diarrhea.

Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
Diarrhea is reported in less than one out of 10 people with measles.
Severe Complications

Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

The Measles chapter of the Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine Preventable Diseases (Pink Book) describes measles complications in more depth.

Long-term Complications
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Since measles was eliminated in 2000, SSPE is rarely reported in the United States.

Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991, 4 to 11 out of every 100,000 were estimated to be at risk for developing SSPE. The risk of developing SSPE may be higher for a person who gets measles before they are two years of age. For more information, see Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE): MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia.

Source

Which complications would you guess are treated against by using Vitamin A? Correct - Diarrhoe. Nothing else. Nice, that not that many people still die from Diarrhoe. But not the winner against the other, more severe problems.

Even the largest organization about autism denies that vaccines link to autism: Link

May I ask you whom do you believe in this?

I don't believe anyone who claims to know definitively either way. First and foremost, it's virtually impossible to prove a negative, so it's virtually impossible to prove vaccines do not cause autism. The best one could do is state that there is no known evidence for vaccines causing autism; but lack of evidence does not mean lack of a connection. Second, not enough study has been done to form a truly educated opinion, much less come to conclusions.

If I may make a break here: You want to do the same to studies (proving a negative) as you said would not be sufficient about a prove against vaccine-autism. Contratictive.

And, unfortunately, that won't happen as long as it's in the best interests of some to make sure it is never proven.

Highly speculative. Vaccines are cheap compared to the treatment of ill people. Here is a website showing it (sorry, German only, try google.translate) stopmasern.ch

Third, the data can be hidden, misrepresented, misunderstood, misinterpreted, manipulated, etc., either through human ignorance/incompetence, or knowingly and deliberately to skew the results by those with a vested interest to do so.

This goes for every data. I deem this not to be a suitable argument, sorry.

For example, Merck is facing a class action suit right now as a result of a Whistleblower from the CDC, who has been under gag order, but now admits his part in a break in protocol in analyzing data regarding an increased incidence of autism in African American boys.

Source, please?

Fourth, as the criteria for clinical diagnosis of autism continues to change, and as the autism spectrum is quite wide and inclusive, and as it continues to be misdiagnosed, it is again virtually impossible to rule anything out at this point.

Well, maaaaaaybeee in the future - okay, this doesn't sound like a valid argument, do you think? Before, you said that there are valid studies, and now they are gone?

The available information, and therefore the science, does not support a conclusion either way.

There are a lot of studies about vaccines and their side effects, and none showed anything about autism - THAT is an assertive statement against vaccines-autism. Even asking for more studies to somehow show a correlation seems like searching for a golden hit, a jackpot based on a weird combination of luck, unknown exterior influences and maybe even bad, but ingeniously camouflaged as valid science.

What laws of nature are violated? What is the color of law? And yes, if it BENEFITS THE MAJORITY... I would like to have ANYONE vaccinated.

The laws of nature, and of nature's God...

I am not going into religion vs. science!

And it is exactly to protect and guarantee these absolute inalienable rights for each and every individual that we have a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy in which the majority can inflict their will on the minority... even a minority of one.

But you just try to do exactly that: have a minority been inflicted their chances on a healthy life by wanting the majority to have the right to life their life in complete overbearing ignorance to the needs of that minority.

If you want to live in a state where everyone can live their lives every way they want, you want to live in anarchy.
If you are willing to respect the physiological problems of others (like using handkerchiefs for sneezing, or not shaking hands with others as you are ill, or not -in extremo- pushing emergency rescue vans out of your way, because they blocked your path), then you have to respect their wish to stay free of measles, too.

Measles are VERY VERY contagious - sit beside an ill person and you would get measles with a certainty of 90%!

ETA: I cannot get this to format right with your quotes, and I don't have time now to figure it out, so I hope this makes sense to you. I'm sorry

No worries

a reply to: GetHyped
Ethylmercury is mercury why do you think mercury is in the name of it? Ethylmercury=Mercury
I cant seem to find the original dod site. I give you credit on that! Well done
Ethyl an METHYL are prefixes on the word mercury for a reason. Because they still contain mercury maybe?
I would still appreciate a link to show me that ETHYLmercury is safely out of your body in days. When I looked up how long it takes to come out of the body it said by the time you get your next vaccine for it which is a year later or less. I will not share a link because you wont either.
If you wanna call me slow or deceitful thats fine with me. That would be irreverent to our debate

a reply to: ManFromEurope
Nice post, well said!
I know measles is very contagious. If you catch it, from my understanding, you will be immune to it like chickenpox and possibly polio?
When you speak of vitamin A it the first thing that pops in my head is cod liver oil which has a rare vitamin A2

a reply to: gmoneystunt

Chemistry fail.

OMG salt is chlorine!111!!!

a reply to: GetHyped

Encyclopaedia Britannica Rock salt (common salt, or sodium chloride)

www.britannica.com...
Yeah, I see it
I dont have a reply for that. LOL
I wouldnt say avoid it. It is a detoxing agent. Your body is electrical. Umm yea. I got nothing on that topic

a reply to: GetHyped
but I will try, Mercury is not a detoxing agent.
because it has a suffix of chloride means it has chloride in it. Same as ethylmercury still contains mercury.
Lets talk about aluminum or formaldehyde instead? It should be safe cause it in the vaccines right?

a reply to: gmoneystunt

Moving the goalposts again, I see.

Tell me: at what dosage is formaldehyde toxic in human beings?

a reply to: GetHyped
In view of its widespread use, toxicity and volatility, exposure to formaldehyde is a significant consideration for human health.[7] In 2011, the US National Toxicology Program described formaldehyde as "known to be a human carcinogen"

www.cancer.gov...

Fluzone - intradermal < 0.02 mg
vec.chop.edu...

An oral dose of 30 to 100 mL of 37% formalin can be fatal

home.ccr.cancer.gov...

Ummm ok. I cant find dosage there either. My only defense at this point is i would not recommend to my friends or even enemies to try this at home. Injecting these amounts are not the same as ingesting these amounts because your bypassing your digestive tract. Seriously they embalm people with this stuff. So your saying embalming fluid and chlorine injections are safe in safe dosages but neither of us can not provide a safe amount? Let me guess its all about dosage when neither of these chemicals are organic? I can not even find out how these chemicals are produced for vaccines. Its impossible. Maybe because of lawsuits?

a reply to: gmoneystunt

Biology fail.

Chemistry fail.

Toxicity fail.

You're not as well versed as you'd like to think, are you.

Formaldehyde is produced in the body as part of the everyday metabolic process. In low doses it is not only harmless but necessary for biological function.

The dose makes the poison

Next question: at what dosage is aluminum toxic in human beings?

a reply to: GetHyped

Federal Regulations for biological products (including vaccines) limit the amount of aluminum in the recommended individual dose of biological products, including vaccines, to not more than 0.85-1.25 mg.

www.fda.gov...

The amount of aluminum in vaccines currently licensed in the US ranges from 0.85–0.125 mg/dose

drtenpenny.com...

Well I see thats close but no cigar

OK. Fine. You won this debate. Just encase you or you family has any issues playing around with vaccines in the court of law---
Compensation for vaccine-induced autism - Compensation for vaccine-induced autism? No.
Compensation for vaccine-induced encephalopathy—“accompanied by” symptoms including autistic behavior and autism? Yes

originally posted by: ManFromEurope

Which complications would you guess are treated against by using Vitamin A? Correct - Diarrhoe. Nothing else. Nice, that not that many people still die from Diarrhoe. But not the winner against the other, more severe problems.

Actually, multiple studies have established and documented the benefits of Vitamin A supplementation not just for diarrhea, but for pneumonia and measles-related blindness.

British Medical Journal: Vitamin A supplements for preventing mortality, illness, and blindness in children aged under 5: systematic review and meta-analysis

There have been 43 trials of vitamin A for children aged 6 months to 5 years old, including about 215 633 children In low and middle income countries -- vitamin A supplementation is associated with a 24% reduction in mortality -- Vitamin A supplementation might reduce mortality by preventing measles and diarrhoea; it also prevents blindness -- The evidence for vitamin A is compelling and clear; further trials comparing vitamin A with placebo would be unethical

WHO: Measles

All children in developing countries diagnosed with measles should receive two doses of vitamin A supplements, given 24 hours apart. This treatment restores low vitamin A levels during measles that occur even in well-nourished children and can help prevent eye damage and blindness. Vitamin A supplements have been shown to reduce the number of deaths from measles by 50%.

I think the operative words may be in the dates you posted:

Among people who contracted measles during the resurgence in the United States in 1989 to 1991..."

By the time of the resurgence, Vitamin A was doing its thing and both pneumonia and blindness are no longer serious complications with Vitamin A supplementation.

There are a lot of studies about vaccines and their side effects, and none showed anything about autism -

I'll let this CDC researcher speak for himself:

“I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.

And do please note that although this CDC researcher is critical of the dubious tactics he himself took part in, he does in fact support vaccination:

... I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives.... My concern has been the decision to omit relevant findings in a particular study for a particular sub group for a particular vaccine. There have always been recognized risks for vaccination and I believe it is the responsibility of the CDC to properly convey the risks associated with receipt of those vaccines.”

THAT is an assertive statement against vaccines-autism.

See above. If that were true, that there are no studies linking autism and vaccines, then yes, it would be an assertive statement. But, again, absence of facts does not prove absence of a link... especially when such studies are not available for either peer review or public perusal due to secret gag orders by the court.

I am not going into religion vs. science!

That's not religion or science... it's law. Organic law to be specific, as declared in our Declaration of Independence, and codified in the U.S. Code.

you want to live in anarchy.

No indeed. Living by the law of the land is not anarchy -- exactly the opposite. Forcing one's will on another for one's own benefit is anarchy... or terrorism. Kinda like ISIS bleeding kids dry for transfusions for their terrorists. Those kids should be lining up for the honor, right? The terrorists need it more than them, right?

Measles are VERY VERY contagious - sit beside an ill person and you would get measles with a certainty of 90%!

Not me. I'm immune. The old-fashioned way.

"Italian Court Rules MMR Vaccine Caused Autism: US Media Blacks Out Story"

www.collective-evolution.com...

originally posted by: artistpoet
"Italian Court Rules MMR Vaccine Caused Autism: US Media Blacks Out Story"

www.collective-evolution.com...

Thanks artistpoet! I forgot about that one. Although when I posted it previously, I was told by one person it doesn't count because courts aren't medical experts... or something to that effect... so fair warning!

Does this/hope this ... helps

Medical experts provide link to autism through vaccinations

22 Medical Studies That Show Vaccines Can Cause Autism

a reply to: artistpoet

The same Italian court that jailed scientists for manslaughter because they didn't predict an earthquake?

Courts are not where scientific evidence is validated.

a reply to: artistpoet

The same Italian court that jailed scientists for manslaughter because they didn't predict an earthquake?

Courts are not where scientific evidence is validated.

a reply to: artistpoet

The same Italian court that jailed scientists for manslaughter because they didn't predict an earthquake?

Courts are not where scientific evidence is validated.

a reply to: GetHyped

Of course but for those seeking a better understanding of the pros and cons
Medical reports on both sides should be considered in order to make an informed decision of the risks involved

It is about Choice and the right to choose

originally posted by: artistpoet
Does this/hope this ... helps

Medical experts provide link to autism through vaccinations

22 Medical Studies That Show Vaccines Can Cause Autism

Thank you -- again! I will check it out. I don't how or if it will help anything, but it does repudiate the claims that there are no studies linking vaccines and autism. What I find most disturbing is that all the all-or-nothing hysteria doesn't allow for reasonable precautions to be taken -- our health be damned. For example, in the link I posted to the CDC whistleblower, he stated that autism seems to be linked to children who receive the vaccination before 36 months. In a reasonable world, we would err on the side of caution and delay the vaccination until after 36 months. Instead, the truth is denied, ignored, and hidden from us. And, as much as I hate to say it, much less think it, but what does Big Pharma care if more kids are made autistic... that just means they can sell more drugs to treat the autism. One of the many conflicts of interest inherent in this mess.