Is There True Evil In The Middle East?

I'm putting this topic in the faith forum for that is the direction I'm trying to go with it. To tell a little bit about myself I'm a man of war. I was in the military for 28 years and been involved with just about every contingency, war, exercise since 1980. Even last year I was at 5 different forward operating bases in Afghanistan, and I'll most likely be back in Iraq in the near future. I truly understand what people are capable of doing, but things are different now over there. I'm also not particularly religious though I'm not a atheist, so I'm not preaching any particular faith or driving this in some faith direction.

With that said, when we look at isis it really starts to have me wonder who, or what is the intelligence behind that madness. Even for me there is some really heinous events happening almost daily and I'm starting to wonder what is driving it. Below is a list off the top of my head that I hope helps you get a picture of what I'm talking about. We can blame it on Islam or some kind of corrupted version of it, but one thing I can tell you is the typical Muslin is a very honest and loving person, just as I see with the typical Christian or Jew. Dogma and religious politics drives a lot of what we see as bad, but the masses that follow these religion are good people. What I'm talking about is a mass of people that are doing this....

1. Suicide bombers in markets were women and children are the targets. I can understand (somewhat) a suicide bomber giving up their life to accomplish a tactical win against an enemy, but women and children? How does one bend a religion so far to make this somehow seem good.

2. Stomping to death of Christian/Muslin male babies. Once again, How does one bend a religion so far to make this somehow seem good.

3. Beheading of innocent people. A lot of innocent people....

3. Using virgin children as blood bags until they bleed out.

4. Burning people to death.

5. (latest) Harvesting organs and killing doctors that will not take part in it.

6. Destroying all religious sites, some 1000s of years old.

7. Not to mention (seems almost tame in comparison) raping of women/men and just outright mass killings when there is no tactical, political, religious advantage.

The question is what is it on the list of the most heinous acts known to man that they have not done? This is where I question the intelligence behind the curtains driving this and if there ever has walked demon(s) on earth this would be a good example of true evil chaos that only an evil entity may be able to drive men to do.

What are your thoughts?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I am thinking that the very god they claim to represent has a very special place waiting for them , and it wont have virgins or look like paradise . The only thing positive about where they are going is the fact the will be able to cook a real quick barbecue . Really really quick .

You don't need to go that far to find evil.

For the vast majority who would like to see evil up close and personal, make an appointment to see your closest politician.

Does not matter what side of the coin they are on, it is just one coin with two sides.

Isis seems just way too convenient to me.

Excuses such as WMDs and blowing whole countries up to find one terrorist will not wash anymore. Perhaps the powers that be have a new angle. Way too convenient.

Look, finally they get to drop bombs on Syria. Who would of thought, eh?

P

What's the difference between a suicide bomber killing innocent women and children and a U.S. drone dropping bombs on civilian areas in the hope of killing a few of the bad guys? There is no difference, they are equally evil.

Yes there is evil in the Middle East. There is evil everywhere, even right here at home, maybe even more so.

I think if you're thinking of it from a theological perspective, then no. I really don't think of it as evil so much as...

Delusional is a better word.

originally posted by: pheonix358
You don't need to go that far to find evil.

For the vast majority who would like to see evil up close and personal, make an appointment to see your closest politician.

Does not matter what side of the coin they are on, it is just one coin with two sides.

Isis seems just way too convenient to me.

Excuses such as WMDs and blowing whole countries up to find one terrorist will not wash anymore. Perhaps the powers that be have a new angle. Way too convenient.

Look, finally they get to drop bombs on Syria. Who would of thought, eh?

P

You do not need to do the my list of things to drop bombs on Syria. Also you need to find people willing to do it. Just because you feel politicians are evil that is a long way away from what these people are doing, or an ability for some politician to puppet master.

So, tell me what would Obama need to say to you that would get you to stomp a baby to death? Get my point?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What's the difference between a suicide bomber killing innocent women and children and a U.S. drone dropping bombs on civilian areas in the hope of killing a few of the bad guys? There is no difference, they are equally evil.

Yes there is evil in the Middle East. There is evil everywhere, even right here at home, maybe even more so.

There is a difference, maybe not to you... So a drone drops a bomb on a verified target, yes maybe some innocent people are killed, I understand that in war. That is not what I'm talking about. You and others keep thinking at the top level or close to it. I'm talking about if you held a baby in your hands and you decide to kill it. Or you at the personal level round up kids to bleed them to death for their blood. Etc. Etc.

Think at the lowest level...evil politicians are not driving that part...

originally posted by: rockintitz
I think if you're thinking of it from a theological perspective, then no. I really don't think of it as evil so much as...

Delusional is a better word.

What drives mass delusion at the level we are seeing? How do we all of a sudden have an army of extreme evil acts? We can say well the US trained a few 1000 of them 2 years ago, but that would be in the use of weapons not what they are doing today.

a reply to: Xtrozero

A lot of the time there is no verified target, only where they "think" that target might be based on intelligence that may or may not be wrong.

Killing people in general is evil in my opinion. The war in the Middle East is predicated on lies and when they indiscriminately drop bombs on civilian areas in the "hope" of killing a few bad guys and in the end kill and injure hundreds of civilians, it is an act of evil.

There are an estimated 174,000 civilians who have been killed as a result of the war in the Middle East as of May 2014 (probably higher at this point), people who had nothing to do with terrorists or the U.S.'s invasion. That is evil in my opinion. I'm not calling soldiers evil either, but the ones who predicate the war, the ones who order others to kill for them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

So we can agree. It's delusion.

People aren't inherently evil. They have to agree to be evil.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I believe so.

The end is coming (from a Christian viewpoint). We Christians don't want anyone to suffer or for their life or world to end. We do want what God has promised which is eternal life of love, peace and joy with our Savior.

Because the end is near things are amping up at a speed never before seen. And part of this is the amount of evil in the world. It's rampant everywhere but the depth of pure evil and the atrocities occurring with IS (and other killing groups in the world) is not only unfathomable but it's escalating. People can be tempted and do evil things but I do believe that when one allows evil to take over their heart that they have allowed a greater evil to enter as well - demonic forces.

ISIS are cold hearted thugs

You saying your a good guy fighting in an illegal war for so long! 28 years,and you never saw the light during your time occupying other peoples countries in the tail end of your service

a reply to: Xtrozero

As crazy as it sounds, I've wondered the same thing. Is there evil in the world? Not 'evil' in the ordinary sense that people can do horrendous things to each other. Rather an Evil as something greater.

The Rwanda genocides seemed to be beyond the simple misdeeds of people. I recall watching a news programme that showed how hundreds had been herded into a church for slaughter. The day came to an end before the killing was over so they hacked the Achilles and wrists of the living so they'd stay there for sunrise next day.

IS seem to be playing out the same extreme level of sickness as in Rwanda. Likewise, whatever happened in Germany to make people, just like us, build death camps? Pol Pot and his killing fields? Stalin's slaughter of his own?

It makes me wonder if there's something like an evil contagion that moves around populations? A madness. There always seems to be a location on Earth where atrocities are committed in ways and numbers that exceed banal inhumanity.

What's worse is such societal changes are only ever half a generation away and can happen to any of us at any time. Evil as an intelligent force doesn't make sense to me and, like you, I'm not particularly religious and don't conceptualise the world as Good Vs Evil. Nevertheless, the dark periods that visit human cultures appear very much like the behaviour of Evil.

If you were to compare that list of atrocities to what say the Nazis or Stalin did, it's the same or worse.

The word evil definitely applies to what you are describing. Religion, radical Islam to be exact, is a malevolent force that is rising and rising at the moment.

Groups like ISIS will continue to flourish on this planet as long as humanity continues to define reality with manicheistic and excessively simplistic concepts such as "good" and "evil".

"True evil" does not exist.
Atrocities committed in the name of "good", or in the certainty of fighting "evil", those things -on the other hand- they have abounded all though human history.

We need to stop dragging our knuckles around, trying to grasp the world with these bronze age concepts, and move on...

In your words, a drone strike dismembers some civilians you can "understand". When a man with a sword does it though (and even though incalculably more civilians are killed by US drones and air strikes than by ISIS) then you call it evil. How comprehensible do you think your posture is to someone who actually lives over there, under the permanent threat of having his family wiped out ?
Don't you think that the mother who loses her child in such a way could quite easily define your insensitive thought pattern as "true evil" ?

In their minds, ISIS fighters are stamping out "true evil".
Think about that.

The thugs that are creating all the news, live in the 7th century. The distorted belief they use is just there so they can do all these evil things. They use their version of the Koran as the truth. They have even corrupted the Koran. These evil men and women simply do not want to behave as civilized men and women. The 7th century was not a nice time or place to live.

Yeah those hellbent crazy killer Muslims are pure evil.

The Western world is pure good - no killing, no child abuse, no rampant pillaging of the financials for the good of the leaders etc etc

Sorry, I've been conditioned by the media and threads like this to believe such things.

a reply to: and14263

Yeah those hellbent crazy killer Muslims are pure evil.

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make. It seems more like a man of experience is questioning his own understanding of the world in light of what he's encountered through IS. Not Muslims, just those committing atrocities under Islamic State banners. He even wrote:

We can blame it on Islam or some kind of corrupted version of it, but one thing I can tell you is the typical Muslin is a very honest and loving person, just as I see with the typical Christian or Jew.

He says he's not a religious man and he's been led to question such beliefs by beginning to consider the possibility that Evil has influence here on Earth. Personally, he has my sympathy and admiration as he's clearly going through something existential and life-altering. Unfortunately, ATS tends to have very few members (imo) who can discuss concepts at the existential level.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Yeah, I just read the thread title, skimmed and posted - oops. Sorry OP.

a reply to: and14263

I do it all the time!