The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

a reply to: Xtrozero

Here is the population breakdown of the country and I think the 25% of Russians need to get over it or move back to the Motherland.

Are you saying that 25% of Ukraine's population is Russian?

Where did you get that number?

a reply to: Xtrozero

So each sub-area/state/region of a country should be able to just do a local vote to decide what country they want to be a part of?

I think there may be a bit of confusion concerning my post...I was referring to Crimea not being given the choice to stay with Ukraine..

It is not like they were just made up and people got pissed because they didn't have a choice where to draw the line. Here is the population breakdown of the country and I think the 25% of Russians need to get over it or move back to the Motherland.

I totally agree, which is why I think there was some confusion about what I posted...I guess I should have been more specific with my reply.

a reply to: buster2010

Sorry but Crimea was it's own autonomous nation they had every right to vote to rejoin Russia.

So if Russia was so sure Crimea was going to vote to be part of them why did they not offer the choice to stay with Ukraine?

As they should have the right to vote for staying with Ukraine, but unfortunately they weren't afforded that choice.

There are two sides to every coin.....I have no doubt that the Russians are backing the Pro Seperatist movement via proxy.
But I also have no doubt that Western Ukraine are shelling and killing their own people in the East either.
The West bleats on and on about the Sovereign Integrity of Ukraine whereas that did not seem to matter when we interfered in another country....it was more than fine for us to INVADE a Sovereign nation called Iraq and kill Iraqi Men,Women and Children in their own backyard for our political gains.
So as far as I'm concerned the sooner the Russians cross the border and split the Ukraine in half the better.
Lets face it what can we in the west do?
Putin is far from stupid and knows that even while his country is suffering with sanctions imposed on them for this he is going to win this skirmish aswell.
WW3 ... if we have a third world war the US and Russia will both be a Radioactive dust bowl and neither country wants that.

The fact that putin did not sign and instead got a underling to sign tells me the agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.

According to some websites there is photographic evidence of the UK supplying military equipment to Ukraine such as armour vehicles.

Those cheating lying ...

Oh wait... people here actually believe politicians?

"Now, I have to go back to work on my State of the Union speech. And I worked on it until pretty late last night. But I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time; never. These allegations are false. And I need to go back to work for the American people. Thank you" - Bill Clinton

originally posted by: AnIntellectualRedneck
Very strange that such an article would appear in the finance section of Yahoo, very strange indeed.

That aside, I am in agreement with several people who have pointed out that WW3 has already begun, and it's just not a hot war yet. It's pretty obvious that with such statements coming out in the MSM that the U.S. government is wanting it to go that way, and it's probably a good idea.

WW3 fought in the open is likely the only thing that is going to stop an even like the Lehman collapse within the next year or two. Whether it's oil, whether it's Greece, whether it's something else, there is only so long that the charade can go on.

Very strange that such an article would appear in the finance section of Yahoo, very strange indeed.
_Well they did say that the cease fire caused the stock market to move. I forget exactly how much but it was significant._

originally posted by: defcon25

The West bleats on and on about the Sovereign Integrity of Ukraine whereas that did not seem to matter when we interfered in another country....it was more than fine for us to INVADE a Sovereign nation called Iraq and kill Iraqi

Add to this the way the West dismembered Yugoslavia. Dictating to the world Serbia should be split apart and lose the region of Kosovo. "Self determnation."

It's 2015 Ukraine. Now the worlds policeman John Kerry bleats on about "there can be no redrawing of Europe's borders."

PROOF that the UK is supplying weapons to Ukraine! That lying Cameron, how does he keep a straight face! Pure evil!

These will be rushed to the front by the western Ukrainians to be used against the eastern Ukrainians.

20 British Saxon armored cars have already been delivered, while 55 are expected to arrive soon.

Read more: sputniknews.com...

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: defcon25

The West bleats on and on about the Sovereign Integrity of Ukraine whereas that did not seem to matter when we interfered in another country....it was more than fine for us to INVADE a Sovereign nation called Iraq and kill Iraqi

Add to this the way the West dismembered Yugoslavia. Dictating to the world Serbia should be split apart and lose the region of Kosovo. "Self determnation."

It's 2015 Ukraine. Now the worlds policeman John Kerry bleats on about "there can be no redrawing of Europe's borders."

Kerry is talking out his arse.

Rightfully or wrongly the borders have all ready been redrawn and these is F all we can do about.

10,000 russian nukes pointed at the west mean Ukraine is screwed.

Ukraine aint worth starting a nuclear holocaust over.

a reply to: Reinmax

PROOF that the UK is supplying weapons to Ukraine!

Did you miss this...

The equipment is out-of-service and is non-lethal.

or this...

The vehicles "came without armaments, we will equip them with combat unit to provide effective fire cover for the National Guard or other units, in which these armored vehicles will be supplied," Turchynov said, as quoted by the NSDC.

sputniknews.com...

So it seems that the UK really isn't sending them weapons, just old out of service non lethal vehicles...

Its all a matter of wording. The Saxons are in full working order, Any muppet can mount the original weaponry which is a 7.62mm MG. These will be rushed directly into the fight. The Saxon has been deployed to places such as Bahrain, Brunei, Bosnia, Malaysia, Oman, Iraq and Afghanistan so its decent gear... a 'armoured' vehicle.

The brits make good solid gear, which ~70 odd will be very useful in this type of combat.

Non Lethal Cracks me up. A F-16 is a non lethal weapon without a weapons load. Hell, a rifle is a non lethal weapon if the magazine is not in.

en.wikipedia.org...(vehicle)

a reply to: Reinmax

The Saxons are in full working order

Yes, but they have no armament and are delivered that way, so unless they are using them as a weapon and running people over they are just an armored vehicle so it isn't considered a weapon.

Any muppet can mount the original weaponry which is a 7.62mm MG.

And it's Ukraines right to do as they choose when they receive stripped down armored vehicles.

hardly a museum piece.

Never said they were.

Non Lethal Cracks me up. A F-16 is a non lethal weapon without a weapons load. Hell, a rifle is a non lethal weapon if the magazine is not in.

Now your beginning to see the light...although the F-16 could still be considered a weapon, as it can still kill without their weapons.

originally posted by: Reinmax
Its all a matter of wording. The Saxons are in full working order, Any muppet can mount the original weaponry which is a 7.62mm MG. These will be rushed directly into the fight. The Saxon has been deployed to places such as Bahrain, Brunei, Bosnia, Malaysia, Oman, Iraq and Afghanistan so its decent gear... a 'armoured' vehicle.

The brits make good solid gear, which ~70 odd will be very useful in this type of combat.

Non Lethal Cracks me up. A F-16 is a non lethal weapon without a weapons load. Hell, a rifle is a non lethal weapon if the magazine is not in.

en.wikipedia.org...(vehicle)

APCs are non lethal and easily exported you don't take APCs to attack a position unless your an idiot. You use APCs to safely get your troops to positions so they can kill. OR if things aren't going well retreat quickly from the area. They are not tanks even with a machine gun mount you aren't taking them into battle if an APC is using its gun it's pray and spray.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

F16s only have one purpose they are always a lethal weapon you can't remove the ability to carry armaments. Without it it's no longer an F16 and you get off cheaper buying a trainer. However there is one piece of non lethal that could change the war in Ukraine should the US choose to do so. And that is patriots give Ukraine those and this fight is over.

Woohoo, I like your logic. We could supply "trainers" **cough F16's** as they would arrive without weapons and hence be 'non lethal'. How they get weapons for the F16's .. opps I mean 'Trainers' thereafter is irrelevant as it is up to them what they do with it.

Dad with his sun walking along. Son : Wow Dad, look its a F-16. Dad says No son, that is a Trainer. Son : What about that Armoured Vehicle we passed before with the 7.62mm MG. Dad : I told you before, that was a 'Amoured Safety Vehicle' now shut up for a change.

I like where this is going

"Fu$k the EU" - Victoria Nuland quote on the American involvement in the Ukrainian Crisis

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Kukri

This model is not exported outside of Russia and only entered service in 2014.

All depends on dates and time, the Russian forces had them in 2012. However this video is from 2011, and is definitely an advert.



I also saw on the UK news today a military Ukraine spokesman talking about the war/ceasefire and behind him very new looking low end personnel armoured vehicles looking suspiciously like Discovery/Range Rover vehicles.
Also in the video the Russian vehicle looks suspiciously like a Mercedes platform, if so that could have come from anywhere, including North America.
What you are ignoring in trying to make Putin out a liar, is that just about every country in the West has already an input in some way....just one of the reasons for their very local involvement in the ceasefire. That simply means it's much bigger a thing than calling out someone for being a liar. In the meantime, military does what military does in this scenario, they continue to fight over bits of dirt, and it doesn't matter what non-combatants get killed..they are just in the fecking way.

originally posted by: buster2010

Sorry but Crimea was it's own autonomous nation they had every right to vote to rejoin Russia.

Where did you pull this from? When was Crimea ever an independent nation? In the picture below, Russia realigned their borders with Ukraine and Crimea became a part of Ukraine in 1954. buster201 it seems you like to pick and choose borders as you see fit, but borders are created through war, mutual legislation between countries or like what happen with a good chunk of the middle east the borders are just created by nations that are not even a part of that area, as what Britain and France did there.

Thanks for the post smurfy . This was my point earlier but I believe sarcasm has been lost via keyboard. I region is awash in weapons. Many countries are supplying weapons and no one is really being straight up, labelling them non lethal is like putting lipstick on a pig. Its still a pig. All parties seem to be supplying weapons on the down low and calling it anything other than what they are doing. I don't believe there is a politician anywhere that dosent lie whether they are in the UK/US/ Russia or in XYZ.

Whether it is a blow job in the whitehouse, Iraqs Weapons of Mass Destruction that can hit the Uk in 40 minutes or secret rendition or the snipers that were used in the protests by the now non elected government etc etc etc

Lets call it what it is ...

a reply to: Xtrozero

In order to understand how Crimea was an independent nation a person has to know history prior to the Soviet Union. since that seems to be where people stop, they just assume its always been a part of the USSR / Russia when in fact it has not. The same olds true of Ukraine.

An agreement between Turkey and Catherine the Great actually gave control of Crimea back to Turkey based on certain conditions.

Turkey has a more solid claim on Crimea than what Russia does.


Secondly Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in 1954 and when Russia signed the Budapest agreement they recognized it as Ukrainian sovereign territory.