(Part 1) The Phoenix Lights - Laying To Rest The Myth

a reply to: _BoneZ_

Um, no. Hundreds reported seeing a physical craft at close range. If you're going to attempt a debunk of a sighting, I suggest you choose one with far fewer witnesses. Otherwise, your're just going to look silly. Simington himself admitted seeing the craft.

Next.

originally posted by: sparky31
a reply to: _BoneZ_ watched so many documentarys on this case and no matter how much i want to believe it was out of this world i have to agree with everything you have posted,if you look at the evidence then you can come to no other conclusion.

people want to believe so much they don,t want to accept whats staring them in the face cause accepting it would mean the possibility of nothing out there.

where as i believe there is deffo something out there and every possibility they are visiting but we just don,t have that definite proof yet.

Its not about "wanting to believe" Planes in formation makes no sense in so many ways. Basically, to believe that theory, you would have to ignore what witnesses said they saw.

a reply to: Jay-morris and witnesses may not have seen what they think they saw.

mass hysteria
Etymology: ME, maiour, great; Gk, hystera, womb
an episode of psychogenic illness affecting a large group of individuals at the same time. Examples include the witchcraft trials of the 17th century and the irrational mass reaction to the 1938 radio show based on H.G. Wells' science-fiction novel, War of the Worlds. Also called collective hysteria, epidemic hysteria, major hysteria, mass panic, mass psychogenic illness.

Have to agree with the OP. Unless someone else comes forward with more convincing evidence, it must be ceded to.

Not all cases are as easily open and shut, but most are. This implies UFOs are probably not otherworldly. Yet because not everything can be perfectly explained, people will wonder. Even just some leftover questions is enough to fuel all of ufology. Science falls short and probably will never fully explain everything in the universe, so there's a myriad of charlatans, religions, myths and psuedo-science to fill the void. Who knows why the void has to be filled, but probably relates to psychology and upbringing.

This is a good book by Carl Sagan:
en.wikipedia.org - The Demon-Haunted World...

originally posted by: Jay-morris
Unless you want to completely disregard what people said they saw.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing? You're disregarding the people who saw separate objects or planes, and only clinging to those who claim they saw a solid object.

What's more far-fetched? That the light formation was planes like many people saw, or a low-flying massive craft that many people think they saw?

originally posted by: Urantia1111
Um, no. Hundreds reported seeing a physical craft at close range.

Sorry, but that's not correct. Hundreds of people reported seeing the lights. There were only a handful of people that reported seeing a "craft".

There were just as many that saw the lights, and that they were all separate and not of a singular craft. Post #3 shows why people thought they saw a single large craft where there was none.

First hand witness here, i was a resident in Arizona from 1980 until 2011ish.

My first hand account of what I saw was this:

I was sitting on the balcony of a friend's place in Central/North Phoenix, talking to him while he was smoking his cigarette, and from the south OVER the mountains was a MASSIVE V shaped wing.

Now whatever this thing was, it WAS NOT lit, and we - my friend Joe Wade and myself, watched in awe as this thing which I'd say was about 3/4 of a mile off the ground - flew slowly from south to north.

Now I'm a private pilot, and I do have some experience gauging relative altitude, and I would surmise this thing was at least - and I mean at least - 1.5 miles wide! This is what blew me away about the event, not only was there no audible engine noise, but the thing - for it's size - seemed too massive to stay aloft at that of a speed.

That is: I SHOULD have - at least logic suggests - that I should have heard something with engine noise/wind friction, etc.

But I did not.

Now Fife Symington and a few local business people - along with a separate friend of mine - ALL witnessed the SAME thing. But we DID not see the lights, but the object we all saw CAME from that direction.

Now I have heard the conflicted accounts of what happened. What I suspect happened was this was an introduction into the very real phenomena of perceptual relativity - a side benefit of Einstein's theory of relativity - as there has been at least 10 different variations of stories I have heard concerning this same event.

Now this made news the next day in Phoenix, and has created the event you're refuting.

My advice is - think of this as a Roswell incident. Roswell happened. I have spoken to people who saw it firsthand, and quite literally have worked with the material .. and databases... recovered from that crash under the employ of the federal government.

In my opinion, the public is ready for the acceptance of alien life and not being alone in this existence.

And with the Phoenix lights, there are those of us, like me, who know darn well what we saw in Phoenix that evening - we aren't going to be dissuaded from this observational reality through refutations such as yours.

That's... an exercise in futility!

No. I cannot prove I saw what I saw. Nor can you prove you're not a product of my mind.

So what's the purpose in proof with perception?

Don't answer that. In any case. There's enough evidence to suggest that - like a lawyer in a courtroom interviewing eywitnesses - there were MANY different things that happened. As we skirt the veil of imagination, I suspect we're going to see more and more of this. My advice is - quit playing whack a mole and instead spend some time educating others and yourself on the possibilities an unbridled imagination presents.

cya!

Everything you show to have happened is plausible enough, but it doesn't mean that something else wasn't also seen that night.

I know quite a few people in Phoenix that saw a whole lot more than airplanes and flares that night. Flares don't travel horizontally from horizon to horizon and at 40 feet above the roof tops, neither do airplanes.

Since those folks that I know personally, one of which is an FAA official for Phoenix international, tell me in great detail what they saw wasn't any of the mundane things offered as official explanations, I know that something else was a bigger player that evening.
What others believe doesn't concern me too much because of that.

originally posted by: _BoneZ_

originally posted by: Urantia1111
Um, no. Hundreds reported seeing a physical craft at close range.

Sorry, but that's not correct. Hundreds of people reported seeing the lights. There were only a handful of people that reported seeing a "craft".

There were just as many that saw the lights, and that they were all separate and not of a singular craft. Post #3 shows why people thought they saw a single large craft where there was none.

Just from the witnesses in the video below, its clear some people did get a solid look at this thing - one lady estimated she was able to observe it for 5ish minutes as it flew over her house. The former governor also comes clean about the event

www.youtube.com...


Even so, it doesnt strike me as being absolutely alien, large yes, but not doing anything beyond our technology unlike the Tehran UFO in 76. But the sad thing is a good discussion on it cant really take place because most people cant even get to the point that this event happened.

a reply to: _BoneZ_

The very nature of myth means it can't be 'put to rest'.

Kev

AGAIN how did the flares fly in LEVEL formation latterally across the horizon?
Nice explantion ,not possible,BACK to UFO.

I think Phoenix Lights are one of the most cut and dry cases for
VLT Very Large Triangles being reality.
Ironically James Fox's movie title "I know what I saw"
is in reference to a comment made by a witness to the Phoenix
Lights as being one Very Large craft.

When that many people see and report something that big and weird,
we need to pay attention. And not be satisfied with dismissive
even ludicrous answers.

Either witnesses saw a impossibly large craft;
Or they all hallucinated at the same time, in different areas,
about common military exercises that never
brought forth a UFO frenzy or hysterical public prior to the event.
so.....
I'm going with Very Large Craft.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Gosh damn it skeptic and Springer.. I gave $100 twice.
And every time I post.. it gets bogged down or deleted..

AGAIN I WILL ASK!

STEALTH BLIMP!? ( I pondered it then.. and I still wonder now )

D.A.R.P.A.. it has had plans for awhile.
Now remove flares and non-terrestrial from the loop.

The size in question of this object is to large to hide.

BoneZ...
I get and have read all three OP'S
they are reasonable to me.

I don't buy the anti-grav thread. Which I think you responded too and promised closure.
So that's why we're here. No I didn't post a comment.( in that thread ) But I did read it. I tend to stick these threads out. But pay attention. Why? Because it may house the opening of the next black project seeing the light of day.

Ionic thrust? Even that's hard to swallow for the silence many describe just overhead.
I even own an ionic air filter.. it makes a Little noise. But not much airflow. And certainly not enough to move a quarter mile long object.

Forgive me, I'm agitated that I had to post 3 times to be booted..( after I wrote more than what's seen here ).

Is a stealth blimp a possibility?

Thank you for your patience.

a reply to: Bigburgh

i do think it is something along those lines, it doesnt answer all the questions, like the supposed testimony of the military pilot who was deployed to check it out and came back "visibly shaken" ( its in the video I linked).

Also, if it was military, it would seem more likely, at least to me, that this would have been done at 3am instead of 8:30pm.

The Governor says in the interview that we have nothing with that capability in our inventory, but he doesnt expound on that point. I dont rule it out completely, but unlike the former Governor, nothing ive seen reported seems outlandish like the Tehran ufo.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: Bigburgh

i do think it is something along those lines, it doesnt answer all the questions, like the supposed testimony of the military pilot who was deployed to check it out and came back "visibly shaken" ( its in the video I linked).

Also, if it was military, it would seem more likely, at least to me, that this would have been done at 3am instead of 8:30pm.

The Governor says in the interview that we have nothing with that capability in our inventory, but he doesnt expound on that point. I dont rule it out completely, but unlike the former Governor, nothing ive seen reported seems outlandish like the Tehran ufo.

Your posting made me think. In fact I forgot about that incident. Only saw it online. Then you jogged the memory.

The only thing of origin in size.. a possibility. To stay aloft. Would be a super blimp.

And I got that book. It's good reading.

These 'big cases' with all the hype totally bore me.

I could care less whether A10 Warthogs and flares are the answer
or whether it's party balloons, Chinese Lanterns or whatever..

This is "the Little Red Wagon story" through and through.

The question isn't WHAT the sightings were, but rather why did
someone stage an event that would OBVIOUSLY be taken as
a 'UFO'.

Or yes, it could have been some form of high strangeness.

But in either case, it makes no difference whatsoever whether
it was exactly like the OP says, or whether it was
"high strangeness".

We are being played, and that's the real thing of significance.

Now, when my next door neighbor or person of ultimate repute
makes a quiet report that doesn't see any media? Then I'm
interested.

Kev

a reply to: universalbri

I dont know you or whether you were there or not, but being as though you have nothing to gain I will take your word and that is a great privilege to see something.

It doesnt change my opinion and I know you dont care either way but thanks for sharing and have a star.

I am completely on the fence, having worked on what I understood to be leading edge aerospace tech for 15 years and now on the latest gas turbines, then I dont want to accept there could be something else, it doesnt make business sense and business is more powerful than politics. So IMO it would have to be other wordly and I cant accept that they would hide from us, however, I wont let it go because I want there to be more than this shoite.

Incidentally, your typing style, if it reads like you sound, a very laid back southern drawl!

a reply to: Forensick

Yes.
I've been asking for sometime if there was anyone here on ATS. Was there at the time.
All I wanted was a first hand account.

The only fact I know is.
Something did happen..
That's all anyone can prove at the moment.

Excellent thread.

Anytime something gives me a kneejerk reaction and makes me want to immediately argue, I try to step back and listen, especially when evidence is presented rationally.

However, the witness testimony in this case still has me swayed. 

Thank you for gif. Ive looked for videos of v-shape in vain many times. 

Appreciate the work. 

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
We are being played, and that's the real thing of significance.

Now, when my next door neighbor or person of ultimate repute
makes a quiet report that doesn't see any media? Then I'm
interested.
Kev

I dont see where you are coming from here.
If there werent several witnesses or clear polaroids, I might pretend interest to my neighbor, but that would be it. There was show on recently called Close Encounters, intesting stuff, but much of it was from a single witness account. Not to say they were fake, I just dont see the point of doing a show about it unless there was some kind of corroboration.

As far as being played, not sure.
I suppose it is possible some govt people wanted to gauge what the public reaction to a ufo would be, at least that would be one explanation for the 8:30 time.