It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Timewave zero - a revision from an Italian point of view vs Meyer proposal - March 2015

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 05:42 AM
I am Zagari, I am Italian, and from the early 2010 to the end of 2012 I was one of the leading people who participated in posting updates on Evasius's notable thread " Timewave Zero Countdown to Transition " ( ).

Now, we all know that Terence Mckenna chose the wrong date for his proposal of the Omega Point, Eschaton, or better known as timewave zero date. That, anyway, does not mean that the theory in itself, the part about historical resonances, time cycles, is wrong. In fact, the timewave software developer Peter Meyer updated the official timewave zero website on January 30 2013 with a proposal in three parts, three different proposals, or reasons, to consider an alternate and future zero date.
( see this link for explanation of the basics of the theory, if timewave zero is unknown to you )

This is what Peter Meyer says:
Despite the common assumption to the contrary, the theory of Timewave Zero does not imply any particular date as the zero date, and in particular it does not imply that 2012-12-21 is the zero date. Any other date is theoretically possible.

The way in which the timewave is constructed from the King Wen Sequence of I Ching hexagrams implies that certain periods have particular significance, namely periods of one day (corresponding to one line in a hexagram), six days (since a hexagram has 6 lines), and 6*64 = 384 days (since the I Ching has 64 hexagrams). And therafter all periods of consisting of 384 multiplied by a power of 64, as in 384*64 = 24,576 days (about 67 years), 384*64*64 = 1,572,864 days (about 4,306 years), and so on. These periods could be called "cycles".

Terence McKenna assumed that any point on the timewave which preceded the zero point by a number of days in any of these periods, that is, any point which is the start or end of a cycle, must be a point of great novelty (compared to other points in the timewave); and thus that, when a correspondence between the timewave and historical time is made (by fixing the zero date), points in time corresponding to these points in the timewave will show great novelty. In particular, the point 24,576 days prior to the zero point would be a time of great novelty.

McKenna then assumed that, because of the observed increase of novely throughout human history, and in particular, from the early 20th Century up the the 1980s, that novelty was accelerating so much that the zero point could not be far off, and that it would be sometime early in the 21st Century. He thus looked for an event in the mid-20th C. which was so extremely novel that it could be associated with the cycle which began 24,576 days prior to the zero point. From the date of this event the zero date could be estimated by adding 24,576 days.

The event which seemed to McKenna the most novel event of the mid-20th C. was the use of an atomic bomb to incinerate Hiroshima, which occurred on August 6, 1945. Adding 24,576 days to this gives the date November 18, 2012. Influenced by the fact that the then-current 13-baktun cycle of the Maya Calendar ended in December 2012 (according to the most commonly accepted value for the correlation number, by which the Maya long count is connected to the Western calendars) McKenna adopted 2012-12-22 as the zero date, and around 1991 settled on 2012-12-21.

This reasoning made four assumptions:
The beginning and end of any cycle corresponds to a time of great novelty.
The zero date is likely a date in the early 21st C.
The atomic bombing of Hiroshima is the event of greatest novelty in the mid-20th C.
Despite the zero date that this reasoning leads to, the "end date" of the Maya Calendar is a more likely zero date for the timewave.

None of these assumptions is well-justified.

Several other events during 1935-1965 are candidates for events of great novely, especially the assassination of John F. Kennedy on 1963-11-22, so #3 is dubious. As for #1, not only is it also dubious, it seems refuted by the timewave itself, because with any zero date, the date 24,576 days before that does not show up as a peak or as a major descent in the timewave (using the Kelley number set, the only number set in existence in the mid-1980s) but on the contrary shows up as the start of an ascent into habit.

The answer is that, yes, there are several possibilities for a revised zero date.

Alternative 1

The Kelley timewave shows a major descent of the timewave beginning, not 24,576 days prior to the zero date but rather 16,384 days prior. (Note that 16,384 = 2^14.) This is true for any choice of zero date, for example, a zero date of 2018-08-26.

So we could look for an extremely novel event sometime during 1969-1979 and then add 16,384 days to that date to get a zero date sometime in 2014-2024. In fact the date of 1973-10-17 (the target date in the graph above) is such a date.
because on that date:

Arab members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), in the midst of the Yom Kippur War, announced that they would no longer ship petroleum to nations that had supported Israel in its conflict with Egypt — that is, to the United States and its allies in Western Europe. — 1973 Oil Crisis
And this "oil shock" had major economic repercussions

Adding 16,384 days to 1973-10-17 gives a zero date of 2018-08-26.

Alternative 2

In The Mathematics of Timewave Zero it is shown that for any point on the timewave which is x days prior to the zero date, for which the value of the timewave is v, the value of the timewave at the point 64*x days prior to the zero date is 64*v. Since this is true also of the points in the vicinity of x, the shape of the timewave at the second point is the same as the shape at the first point. The ups and downs of the timewave represent novelty/habit, so the novelty/habit of the two points (and adjacent regions) is the same (just at a different scale). Two such points or regions of the graph are said to be in resonance, and they are major (a.k.a. geometric) resonances of each other, or more exactly first major resonances. (If related via 64*64 instead of simply 64 then they are second major resonances or each other.)

Suppose the units of time on the horizontal axis of the graph are days, and that each day is numbered according to the system of Julian day numbers (JDN), and suppose that the JDN of the zero point is z. Suppose that two events are located on the graph at JDNs d1 and d2 (with d1 < d2). Then the first event is z-d1 days prior to the zero date and the second is z-d2 days prior. Suppose they are first major resonances of each other, then (z-d1) = 64*(z-d2). This implies that z = ((64*d2)-d1)/63. Thus if we can find two events which are first major resonances of each other, then the JDNs of those events will give us a zero date.

Alternative 3

A plausible choice for a revised zero date could be based on the assumptions:
The peak at the start of a major descent of the timewave corresponds to an event of great novely (whose effects play out in the period following).
The zero date is likely a date in the early 21st C.
The attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 2001-09-11 is the event of greatest novelty in living memory.
#1 is a standard axiom of Timewave Zero theory. #2 might even be strengthened to assert that 9/11 was the event of greatest novelty in all of human history. It left everyone gobsmacked and its consequences affected everyone on the planet.

There was never anything of this magnitude before (though Pearl Harbor was an inspiration to those who planned 9/11). September 11th was an event novel enough to justify re-calibrating the timewave so as to give primary importance to 9/11 as the most novel event, if not in all of history, at least the most novel in the last 20 years. And how might we do that? Simply by finding a zero date according to which September 11, 2001, is the peak of a huge descent in the timewave.

The three points on the timewave which are the initial points of the three deepest descents of the timewave occur 1,536 days prior to the zero date, 3,136 days prior and 6,144 days prior. When we add these numbers of days to September 11, 2001, we obtain: 2005-11-25, 2010-04-13 and 2018-07-08 respectively. Since our revised zero date must be in the future, that leaves just one candidate: July 8, 2018.

Thus if assumptions #1 - #3 are held to be plausible then July 8, 2018, is a plausible candidate for a revised zero date, and (due to objections which could be raised to the other candidates mentioned in this article) it is the most plausible. Thus this zero date is now built in to the online timewave calculator on this site.

It remains to be shown that using this revised zero date there are correspondences between other major descents in the timewave and very novel events and periods in history. One very clear correspondence occurs with the date 1973-10-17, the date of the "oil shock"


However, I disagree with his choice because according to my understanding, you can only predict a potential zero date at a short distance in time from it, and it is a kind of a hazard to pinpoint a date in 2018 for the Eschaton.

Since February 2013, I focused on the second option that Meyer proposed for the research to revision this theory and I started looking for events similar to each other in the present and in the past, using the formula ((64*d2)-d1)/63 to compare the julian numbers corresponding to historical dates, where d2 is the present date and d1 is the past one.

I shown this to some Italian forums and in a blog which I co-author, that is and my proposed potential zero date window of time comes potentially between March 23 and April 7 2015.
I do not exclude that it might come after that, since the less distance that comes between now and the eschaton, and more likely is possible to pinpoint a window of time for that.

I found out data for 6 possible timelines for 6 possible zero dates, which are February 8, March 23, March 30, April 3, April 7, May 25, all in 2015, with the most potential for the March zero dates.

I also consider, after Paris terror attack, a March 25-27 potential zero date.

These are the historical resonances that I consider still valid as of now:

February 10, 1258 and April 12, 2003 - Iraq Mongols and United States global superpowers- February 8, 2015

January 21, 1793 and August 24, 2011 - King Louis XVI and Ghaddafi - February 8, 2015

November 7, 1917 and November 20, 2013 - Russia and Ukraine - May 25, 2015

January 26, 1700 and June 23, 2010 - Natural disasters same area - May 25, 2015

May 18, 1936 and March 7, 2014 - Civil wars Spain and Ukraine - May 25, 2015

November 1, 1755 and March 11, 2011 - Lisbon Earthquake/tsunami and Fukushima - March 30, 2015

December 11, 1994 and December 5, 2014 - Chechnya - March 30, 2015

November 4, 1995 and December 10, 2014 - Israel / Palestine - March 30, 2015

March 20, 1995 and December 7, 2014 - March 30, 2015

September 8, 1943 and February 22, 2014 - Italy political events - March 30, 2015

July 14, 1789 and September 24, 2011 - France Revolution and the Occupy Movement - March 30, 2015

March 6, 1946 and March 13, 2014 - Cold War and " wikipedia named " Cold War 2 - March 30, 2015

June 2, 1780 and August 6, 2011 - British Protests - April 7, 2015

March 6, 1946 and March 21, 2014 - April 7, 2015

August 7, 1998 and 2/3 January 2015 - Kenya / Congo tragedies and Baga massacre Nigeria April 7, 2015

June 4, 1989 and 11/12 November 2014 - Tiananmen China and Hong Kong / Mexico - April 7, 2015

February 9, 1986 and October 22, 2014 - Halley's Comet - April 7, 2015

April 26, 1986 and October 20, 2014, Ukraine (maybe) - April 3, 2015

January 21, 1793 and October 20, 2011 - Louis XIV and Ghaddafi - 6/7 April 2015

July 14, 1789 and September 17, 2011 - France Revolution and the Occupy Movement - March 23, 2015

March 6, 1946 and March 6, 2014 - March 23, 2015

May 11, 1955 and April 16, 2014 - sinking ship, both in Asia - March 23, 2015

August 6, 1996 and 3/4 December 2014 - Chechnya - March 23, 2015

April 19, 1775 and 17 September 2011 - American Revolution and Occupy Wall Street June 18, 2015

April 3, 1963 and August 25, 2014 - Race Riots June 18, 2015

June 30, 1945 and March 1, 2014 - Ukraine - April 3, 2015

April 29, 1992 (LA Riots) and November 24, 2014 (Ferguson riots) - April 3, 2015

April 20, 1999, Columbine and January 7, 2015 Charlie Hebdo massacre (maybe) - April 7, 2015

February 12, 2000 and January 7, 2015 / January 11, 2015 - Charlie Brown, Schulz and Charlie Hebdo - 3/7 April 2015

1/3 September 2004 and December 16, 2014 - Beslan and Peshawar - February 13, 2015

April 28, 1996 and 15/16 December 2014 Australia- 2/3 April 2015

17 to 26 August 1998, and December 16, 2014 - March 20, 2015 the Russian Economy

6/7 Millenium Summit in September 2000 and January 11, 2015 Paris March of leaders - April 3, 2015

September 11, 2001 and January 2015 7/9/11 - Paris vs 9/11 and Nigeria Baga vs September 2001 Jos massacre - 25/27/29 March 2015 /

September 4 476 and December 25, 1991 - Roman Empire and Urss 11/12 January 2016

November 27, 1095 crusades and 11 September 2001 - January 18, 2016

January 28, 1986 and October 31, 2014 - April 15, 2015

October 15, 1987 and October 31, 2014 - Coup d' etats April 5, 2015

20/21 July 1969 and November 12, 2014 - Moon landing and first probe to land on a comet August 1, 2015

January 26, 1978 and November 12, 2014 - IUE mission and first probe to land on a comet, European mission June 13, 2015

April 4, 1973 and November 3, 2014 - World trade Center July 2, 2015

Before to come to this point, I considered another window of time for a zero date in early March 2014, March 4 to 11 2014, because most of my data led to that point, however, I actually discovered that this data was not for primary resonances, but for another level of resonances, the secondary ones, since timewave indicates that before the start of the 384 days cycle all of history gets compressed, making for a phenomenon in which the last 2 years on the graph are identical, with a difference of only 13-19 days for resonances, in which the same events return in a modern fashion, but in two ways, like identical twins.

edit on 23-1-2015 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2015 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2015 by Zagari because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:12 AM
This is a lot of great information that will take me a while to read. SNF.

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:41 AM
sorry.... but I automatically go pffffttt in my mind...

the error as I see things, events & projecting dates is based on the 'birth day' myth

in my mind the initial conception event, the time of gestation or pregnancy has far more influence than the 'born-on-date'

there is also more-than-likely a nebulous 'window' prior to the conception event that had a resonance on the future birth-day or entry into the natural world

extend this same line of thought to those extreme Novelty moments, like 911 or the Hiroshima bomb... the events themselves were only instantaneous moments of shock-&-awe... the team of creators that brought forth Hiroshima or 911 were deep into planning/logistics/and all manner of justifications to bring about that short event 'birth-day'

apply the 6 degrees of separation into the equation...
(6 degrees of complex reasons instead of 6 degrees of family distancing 0r closeness)
in the formula for extrapolating a 'window' for a novelty event to occur...

you done a lot of reasoning, idea development... but I do not accept the premis that a 'birth-day ' will result...
at best a 1 generation 'window' may be created for a 'timeline' that produces your Novelty Event can become viable

so too is prophecy, projections, trends, predictions.... they all fall short in exactitude

effort & presentation * star
edit on rd31142202789623442015 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:46 AM
How many years past 2012 must this be delayed before everyone agrees that it is all wrong? 2030? 2050? longer? Let's carry it all the way to the year 4012.

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 01:38 PM
Alternative 4

It's bs.

I believe in the cyclical nature of events because everything in nature is cyclical but i just can't get my head around this crap. Youve wrote a huge list of possible dates of novelty events but seem to not realise that non of these events mean diddly squat to the universe or as a result time itself. It's a stupid dude, give up on it. I've got a new rabbit hole for you - the world will end in 5 days. But we don't know the date to start counting from. Im using code found in 'fifty shades of grey' and cross referencing it with the ratio of the sides of the book.

I'm gonna write a book so I can make money out of suckers

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 01:55 PM
a reply to: St Udio

You may be right about the time of influence but i also see those bodies out there in space having a real time effect on us all depending on where we face at the time. I have also found a way to reach out and touch them now so we should see some change in the world. I do not think any rational person wants them to be no more but it is now possible to cut off their influence onto our world. They are organic like us and all have a sub concious that inter acts with us. I do not have a problem so much with them even though they choose violence my problem is with the one who leads them when they are in motion. Of coarse immobilazition is necessary but not elimination of the stars unless they do not hear and correct so well.

posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:50 PM
It is like advancing toward a hole in the ground. When you are very distant from this hole, you cannot see it and you Also don't expect it to be there. It is when you get gradually closer to it that you can start to have a sight of it and Than suddenly you find yourself at the edge of it.

I think 9/11 was the time when we started seeing something was wrong on our path to ( the Eschaton ) and we realized that something completely novel and unknown was waiting for us, and attracting us like the force of gravity, shaking up time as we start to shift into another way to experience time and history.

Events are indeed mirroring each other, like a movie in which the same loop, the same list of events is occurring, the path is always the same, but the environment always changes, it's like events are the actors of the movie, and they have different ways to express themselves but eventually they Also always get into the same pattern.

Life is full of patterns, time is fond of patterns, and if you noticed, in late 2014 we started seeing a gradual replay of the 1990s ( Ferguson riots and l. A. 1992 for the most notable example ) and we Also saw the return of the Cold War, in such a serious range of events that wikipedia created a page for the Second Cold War.

Paris and Charlie Hebdo represent a mirror event of 9/11 because Paris and New York are both cities which represent freedom, life dreams, and in both cases, the symbol of a continent was hit, such as capitalism in the Usa and freedom of expression in Europe.
France and America had sparked the most significant revolutions in history before Arab Spring, and in fact there are many similarities between the Storming of Bastille and the causes of French Revolution and the Occupation of Wall Street. In both cases, the 99% of the people rebelled because of too great differences in the life style of rich people and poor, " Common " people.

We are now in another period of augmented security, and now it is Europe's turn to face security issues and a conflict with Islam.

Timewave is essentially the DNA of history, and a biological clock for humanity. It is the fingerprint of humanity existance and the most realistical " face of time itself " .

posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 05:42 PM
Glad to see you back Zagari. I used to follow the old thread.

It's an idea that still merits some further study/research.

posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:38 AM
a reply to: auroraaus

Thanks! After 2012, I was in a sort of agony for just one month
before Meyer came out with a revision proposal on January 30 2013, and after that, I always continued my research. Eventually I discovered a blog whose blogger inspired me and asked me to write with him as co- author. We talked much about timewave.
Also, I am the leading poster in a research thread on a Italian forum very similar to ats.

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 01:24 PM
a reply to: Zagari

I found out data for 6 possible timelines for 6 possible zero dates, which are February 8, March 23, March 30, April 3, April 7, May 25, all in 2015, with the most potential for the March zero dates.

OK, the February and March dates seem to have been uneventful so far.
How does that affect the new approach?
(Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: I am not trying to be unpleasant, I am curious.)

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 02:40 PM
a reply to: Zagari

Very interesting. But what is supposed to happen? Just a shift through the zero point of a time field?

Before to come to this point, I considered another window of time for a zero date in early March 2014, March 4 to 11 2014, because most of my data led to that point, however, I actually discovered that this data was not for primary resonances, but for another level of resonances, the secondary ones, since timewave indicates that before the start of the 384 days cycle all of history gets compressed, making for a phenomenon in which the last 2 years on the graph are identical, with a difference of only 13-19 days for resonances, in which the same events return in a modern fashion, but in two ways, like identical twins.

And this just blew my mind. I had my "spiritual experience" early March `14 it started.

So awesome, oscilating time-fields.
edit on 30-3-2015 by Peeple because: add

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 02:44 PM
Nothing to see here, just another case of some Snake Oil "Prediction" person trying to remain relevant after their predictions fail to come to pass. Move the goalposts back a few years, make some excuses, and insist that "THIS TIME IT'S TOTALLY FOR REAL CORRECT GUYS, HONEST.".

I'll be back when your prediction inevitably fails once again just to laugh in your face.

edit on 30-3-2015 by ScientificRailgun because: How to grammar please.

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:02 PM
From the sheliak page levity

There are concepts emerging from the field of quantum cosmology that may describe an analogous cyclic process. This is a theory in which universes are treated like quantum particles that inhabit a larger, or higher dimensional domain called a multiverse. Michio Kaku [12] , a theoretical physicist and co-founder of string field theory, has described a process where universes emerge from the zero-point, or vacuum field, go through an evolutionary process, then perhaps return to the zero-point field at the end of the cycle. This cycle may then repeat itself, possibly with increased complexity and Novelty. Could this be similar to the process that the TimeWave and Novelty Theory attempt to reveal? Perhaps further investigation into the nature of the TimeWave will shed some light on these questions.

Just awesome. Thanks for sharing, this is actually new to me and super interesting.

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:08 PM
a reply to: Peeple

It's an absolutely fascinating subject!

I think jumping to make predictions with it is a bit of a stretch, but I think the overall idea is very neat. The greatest limitation, in my opinion, is the great misunderstanding and lack of knowledge concerning "time." Humans have a bad habit where once we find a pattern, science and discovery ceases.

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:16 PM
What if we did hit the zero point and the timewave is still going, to the inverse?

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:16 PM
a reply to: Serdgiam

You're right, I wouldn't try to make precise forecasts before I see what the pattern really looks like.
But if i would try to make out one out standing comparison, I would take the paharonian egypt intersects with Nazi-Germany and the 3.Reich falls in line with the 30 years war, or whatever the proper english name is 1618-1648, now we also have a hegemony war, we're looking forward to, since March 14, when Putin took Crimea "home", but on a bigger scale, a global one. It could work.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I read your post like "But where does the entropy go?"
edit on 30-3-2015 by Peeple because: added a joke- looks more impressive now

posted on Mar, 30 2015 @ 03:37 PM
a reply to: Peeple

I think it could too.

I see it much differently than TWZ, I do not wish to go off topic though.

Regardless, the concept is roughly the same but I think making specific predictions is erroneous due to ideas that are outside of time wave zero stuff.

It took me a long time to realize how much differently I experience the movement of relativistic matter through a common medium. Because of that, I love hearing ideas, hypotheses, and theories from others who have explored it beyond the basics of bias confirmation.

I'm happy to see a thinker like Zagari return to ATS, even if I have my own ideas.

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:20 PM
a reply to: Serdgiam

Since this thread seems to be dying anyway, you might as well tell us more about your views.
It's an interesting subject, regardless of whether one believes in its practical applications or not.

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:30 PM
TPTB have the capability to collapse or fold timelines to either save us or more pertinant to them save themselves and to keep all those smoke and mirrors intact so you can toss this theory,prophecy and all of the rest of it,the 188 leyline system is still in effect however.Yes this post will be poo-pooed but for anyone interested watch the movie Dark City to get the idea.

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 08:16 PM
a reply to: khnum

You never know..

Heck, maybe 'TPTB' are not the only ones. Though, tptb would almost certainly use technology perhaps others are aware of more "natural" methods.

I have heard some say this is actually the true battleground for humanity but the victor will never be known by anyone other than those involved. Reality will just flip like a switch, with little of humanity ever knowing any different.

Would make for a great story either way.

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in