Let's Cut To The Chase, Cut The Crap, And Talk About Radical Terrorism On A Real Level

a reply to: Hefficide

There is a difference, you know.

Christians are not waging holy war on muslims throughout the world. You do not see Christians strapping bombs on themselves, their children and taking out a busload of muslims....or walking into a Mosque and shooting the place up. You don't see anything even remotely close to that happening.

Name a single area in the world where Christians are killing moslems simply because they refuse to convert to Christianity.

Keep your comparisons between apples and apple, or oranges and oranges. You cannot equate the attitudes and actions of Christians vs those of moslems. To attempt to do so is either extremely disengenuous or shows an agenda in action.

a reply to: MKMoniker

Regarding your comment about all the wars going on in the world today: You do realize that the vast majority of these wars are Moslem countries not getting along with their neighbors? Even the ones that are not wars, but are just near war (Pakistan/India comes to mind first) relates similarly.

No matter how you represent it, moslems are not likely to live and let live any other religion, any other country whose official religion is not the "religion of peace": Islam.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm not sure what event you are referring to that Obama called "workplace violence". There have been countless incidents over the past thirty, or so years that spring to mind which would qualify. Sometimes people snap and it seems, in the US at least, that they tend to go after family, fellow students or former coworkers when they do.

Are these acts of terrorism in my opinion? Yup. But workplace violence is also a valid descriptor for some.

Again, I just cannot find adequate words to point out the hypocricy of endorsing genocide against a people and then citing the excuse for wanting it as that they are genocidal.

If you feel that all Muslims are evil and that they should die? Congratulations - you've become exactly that which you think you are making a stand against.

Fort Hood would be the one specifically and even with France, he refused to call it terrorism. I do have a problem with anyone, in any group that points to a segment of their group and calls it bad or evil while doing nothing to "correct" those involved. The Catholic church with the pedophile Priests also comes to mind.

Another little point to consider, in my opinion, about Muslims. There are 1.6 (I believe) Muslims in the world and many people will tell you that the vast majority are non-radical. Personally and from speaking with others that have first-hand experience, there is no such thing as non-radical Muslim. Regardless...of those 1.6 that people call non-radical, how many stone women, how many have religious police stalking the streets beating people who break a minor religious law and how many cheer when the west is attacked by terrorists. Add to that all the ones that, when polled want Sharia law to rule not only their lives, but all the world? I would call all these individuals radical. They don't have to actually strap on a bomb to be radical anymore than a Catholic who hid the fact a Priest abused a child is guilty of being part of the problem.

I think I stated it elsewhere but I'll say it again. If you cheer on or otherwise knowingly support a terrorist...you are a terrorist the same as a person who cheers on a "nut" with a gun to shoot up a school. I understand that my view on that could also be considered radical. For example...I wouldn't call someone who supports smoking pot but doesn't partake...a criminal. But someone, to me, who endorses murder or terrorism is crossing the line. Hypocracy? Maybe...but we are talking about a group that is best akin to Nazis. And the same way a concentration camp guard who never actually killed anyone is still a war criminal...so are these Muslims that allow terrorism to exist within their group.

a reply to: Hefficide

PS: Sometimes a person or a society has to become what they despise the most in order to eliminate what they despise the most. We go to war and kill in order to stop killing. We commit terrorism (drones for example) to stop terrorism. We assassinate to stop assassinations. Hell...we dropped two atomic weapons to end a war. It is possible and sometimes required to become, temporarily what you dislike the most...in order to stop the same actions. Fight fire with fire, and an eye for an eye...a tooth for a tooth comes to mind.

Don't get me wrong! I don't like where we are, but I realize where we are and I am not willing to sit back and be all PC about what could easily be the end of our way of life. We are being invaded in every peace-loving country by a group that believes peace is only a suggestion...if that.

a reply to: Auricom

I'm sorry but this is blatantly false. I live in Finland and as an immigrant am taking full-time language classes with many Muslims from all over. Do the girls wear head scarves and pray at lunch? Yes. Are they and the men hostile invaders intent on subjugating white Christians? NO! They are kind and hard workers. They are interested in Finnish culture and tradition. They want to learn the language and get jobs. Join society.

Great post Heff. But my god there is a ton of hateful fear and ignorance in this thread. I'm all for eradicating Islam but ONLY if Christianity and Judaism go with it.

a reply to: Hefficide

u are absolutely right heff

if I see you by the side of the road needing help changing flat tire.....i am stopping

a reply to: Jamie1

you sound to me like a Neocon Zionist Warmonger

Are you one ?

This is a legitimate question.

originally posted by: Malynn
a reply to: Auricom

I'm sorry but this is blatantly false. I live in Finland and as an immigrant am taking full-time language classes with many Muslims from all over. Do the girls wear head scarves and pray at lunch? Yes. Are they and the men hostile invaders intent on subjugating white Christians? NO! They are kind and hard workers. They are interested in Finnish culture and tradition. They want to learn the language and get jobs. Join society.

Great post Heff. But my god there is a ton of hateful fear and ignorance in this thread. I'm all for eradicating Islam but ONLY if Christianity and Judaism go with it.

Apparently Finland has a stronger or better immigration policy than France. My understanding is that while France used to check and attempt to assure that immigrants wished to integrate, rather than separate...they have relaxed those rules to allow "no-go zones" where Sharia rules and police are not welcome. But again...this is something I just heard and don't have a reference. All I would say is that the world is a dangerous place, mostly due to people...and some people are actually evil. If you keep the evil out, Finland will remain as you see it. There are good Muslims. If you allow the bad ones in...that could change. But don't there are evil people out there and many more (I feel) than some believe.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

Apparently Finland has a stronger or better immigration policy than France. My understanding is that while France used to check and attempt to assure that immigrants wished to integrate, rather than separate...they have relaxed those rules to allow "no-go zones" where Sharia rules and police are not welcome. But again...this is something I just heard and don't have a reference. All I would say is that the world is a dangerous place, mostly due to people...and some people are actually evil. If you keep the evil out, Finland will remain as you see it. There are good Muslims. If you allow the bad ones in...that could change. But don't there are evil people out there and many more (I feel) than some believe.

I am of the same opinion as Auricom. There ARE peaceful Muslims, that do not wish to bring Sharia law into their land of adoption.

The problem in France is due to the second and third generation muslims. You can let in the peaceful muslims, but you can't be sure that their children born in your country will follow in their footsteps.

Especially if the parents have cultural differences which do not aid them to be financially successful in the country. The parents may be content to just work hard enough to have a roof over their head and food in their stomach and stop there.
But the kids, raised in a land where that is guaranteed everyone, will desire more, and see their nice peaceful parents as "losers".

They will be torn between their roots, and the visible differences between them and the native peoples, and seek to integrate the two. They saw that their parents attempts at that left them rather poor and powerless.
So, they think- what if.... I keep the same traditional beliefs of my ancestors, but in an active aggressive mode? A strong version of Islam, not a passive one? The problem with my parents, is that they didn't take it all the way!

...and there you go. A moderate begat a radical.....

a reply to: Bluesma

In many ways I do not disagree with your thoughts here. I'm half Irish and the eldest child of the youngest child ( by far ) from a very large Irish family. That means I was raised around people who were two and three generations removed from the current trends.

While my friends parents had been hippies, many of my role models had come of age in the 20's and 30's.

I heard stories about the Irish mod in America and of the war back "home". I was influenced by people whose parents had come to America and had been spat upon in the streets, sent off to fight wars literally fresh off of the boat, etc. And who were then left to suffer in for their trouble.

Some of my mothers older brothers were involved in some pretty henious things that I cannot be specific about. Let's just say I was born near Boston and they pretty much controlled things there.

Not too far removed from what you are describing. Right?

My mother joined the US Air Force at eighteen and excelled in her career. She is as right wing and pro American as anyone on these boards - even though she had ( they are sadly dead now, she is in her mid seventies ) siblings who were essentially anti-American Irish nationalists.

The difference is that the older ones were more exposed to the indoctrination of the old country. My mother, being much younger, was less effected. One generation removed and, while I have a great deal of personal pride ( for lack of a better word ) in my Irish heritage, am American through and through. I love this country and the people who inhabit it.

It does not take long for the old world beliefs to die away and the new world influences to become predominant.

a reply to: Willtell

The CIA and the Pakistani ISI went and radicalized Pakistani, Saudi and Afghanistan Salafi to fight the Russians.

I personally don’t lay all the blame on those that radicalized these morons. At the time it made sense in order to fight the Russians. The CIA and the other groups probably didn’t consciously make this jihad monster, or in other words that wasn’t their intent.

They consciously made it. There is nothing happening, barring except people waking up and forming citizens counsels and land for the homeless and acting stubbornly, no matter what they orchestrate around them politically or economically, and problem solving, that is not planned out decades and centuries in advance by the elite. Nothing new under the sun, literally, and everything planned out well in advance.

There is nothing innocent or niave, or an oops moment, we didn't mean to, when they turn a child, or a young man into a monster who will dominate friends and foes alike, as these extreme fundamentalists do.

And while I starred this thread for the peace, and goodness it displays, its because that is how we think, that is the normative views of the Northern Hemisphere. But that doesnt mean its the correct way to treat an infiltrating threat. I would have different methods of having both compassion and self protection as nations, with different rules for taking in people who were from high risk nations.

I think we need some balance here between 2 extremes and some self protection.

As an example, there are Islamic No Go areas in Europe. Have you heard of Christian No Go areas in the middle east? The differences between the Northern Hemisphere and other countries, is that they're not open to law suits and change within their countries to accommodate minorities, but they're overtaking our values here.

Our schools are teaching religion in social studies now, its disgusting! And in Colorado, the kids are going on a field trip, not to Science World, but to a Mosque and the girls are in hijabs. Not on My Watch!

We have to stand up for the real values.

However bringing up the CIA, yeah, because we're being attacked, by the elites, the Bildenbergs, the top 100 richest people, its them. But they're creating this very dangerous group to do it with, and that in no way diminishes the danger of their presence in an era that should be the Jetson Era, Space Age and Abundance for all!

www.tpnn.com...

This is not acceptable, this needs to be out of our school systems ASAP. And common core as well.

originally posted by: Bluesma

The problem in France is due to the second and third generation muslims. You can let in the peaceful muslims, but you can't be sure that their children born in your country will follow in their footsteps.

Especially if the parents have cultural differences which do not aid them to be financially successful in the country. The parents may be content to just work hard enough to have a roof over their head and food in their stomach and stop there.
But the kids, raised in a land where that is guaranteed everyone, will desire more, and see their nice peaceful parents as "losers".

They will be torn between their roots, and the visible differences between them and the native peoples, and seek to integrate the two. They saw that their parents attempts at that left them rather poor and powerless.
So, they think- what if.... I keep the same traditional beliefs of my ancestors, but in an active aggressive mode? A strong version of Islam, not a passive one? The problem with my parents, is that they didn't take it all the way!

...and there you go. A moderate begat a radical.....

I think there may be something else going on. Most younger generations don't become more conservative than their parents - they become less conservative. If I were a youth with devout Muslim parents, and I saw my parents not being successful because they just keep to themselves and don't assimilate with the rest of the community in which they live, and I also saw that moderate Muslims who have no problem working with, for and alongside "nonbelievers" were more successful - that would tell me that being more moderate in my Muslim beliefs is the way to more success.

I agree that these youth, who are growing up in very poor areas, are angry that they are poor. This makes them vulnerable to outside influences who tell them that evil nonbelievers are oppressing them. They tell them the evil nonbelievers hate the Muslims, and want to push them down. Now the youth have an enemy to hate and someone to blame for their situation. The extremist radicals don't value success in the form of money - at least not publicly. So, the youth now have someone telling them not to worry about the fact that they are poor - that there are more important things - like how you will spend eternity. This takes the youth away from the goal of simply becoming more successful. Now, their main goal is to fight an enemy.

Bottom line: keep the extremists from being able to communicate to the youth, and they will follow the natural path of becoming less conservative than their parents. How that is to be done - no idea.

I learned this on ATS:
There are no terrorist Muslims. Islam is peaceful, so any terrorists claiming to be Muslims are lying. If you find a reference in the Koran that indicates people should be killed for disbelief in Allah.... you are misquoting and lying.

Christians are horrible, hateful killers because.... Crusades.

originally posted by: butcherguy
I learned this on ATS:
There are no terrorist Muslims. Islam is peaceful, so any terrorists claiming to be Muslims are lying. If you find a reference in the Koran that indicates people should be killed for disbelief in Allah.... you are misquoting and lying.

Christians are horrible, hateful killers because.... Crusades.

HAHA!! Looks like Liberal's guide to islam to me.

Simpletons to be sure. I would venture to guess that 95% of those commenting on muslims, have never met, hung around, or even talked to a muslim. Those of us with extensive dealing with them, know the truth.

The truth hurts sometimes, but it's not truth's fault. It's people's fault for fighting it.

Again the projection and denial is mindblowing. 1.6 billion people being pigeonholed into a single category. Wow.

Oh and I do know Muslims, as previously stated.

originally posted by: butcherguy
I learned this on ATS:
There are no terrorist Muslims. Islam is peaceful, so any terrorists claiming to be Muslims are lying. If you find a reference in the Koran that indicates people should be killed for disbelief in Allah.... you are misquoting and lying.

Christians are horrible, hateful killers because.... Crusades.

The Quran is just as peaceful and/or violent as the Bible is. Not much difference between the two books. Because of that, blaming either book is silly. It's not the book that's the problem.

How do you reconcile the fact that Leviticus says homosexuals are an abomination and should forfeit their lives, when Jesus says we should treat everyone with love and kindness and mercy?

How do your reconcile the fact that the Quran says the infidels should be killed, but Mohammed also says that any Christian or Jew who loves God and does good will go to heaven.

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

There are those from both religions who answer: context, context, context. You can take a quote from either book to justify hatred, but most likely you will be taking it out of historical context. Both Christians and Muslims have taken quotes from their religious books to justify hatred. During the Christian crusades, and during the current turmoil in the predominately Islamic nations, you have unstable areas with wars, death, destruction. Lots of hatred, and lots of people wanting to control others. Lots of stuff taken from the Quran out of context.

It's never to late to learn something.

www.alislam.org...

a reply to: kaylaluv

The Quran is just as peaceful and/or violent as the Bible is. Not much difference between the two books. Because of that, blaming either book is silly. It's not the book that's the problem. How do you reconcile the fact that Leviticus says homosexuals are an abomination and should forfeit their lives, when Jesus says we should treat everyone with love and kindness and mercy?

I am not religiously affiliated...but was raised "Christian".
The difference lies in the "old testament/new testament" ordeal. Old law and new law. All the "old law" was essentially chucked out by Jesus.

This is not the case with The Quran.

How do your reconcile the fact that the Quran says the infidels should be killed, but Mohammed also says that any Christian or Jew who loves God and does good will go to heaven.

And, that's not really what it says. You're twisting the wording a bit.
It says that any that save an INNOCENT life, it is as if that one has saved all of humanity and any who take an INNOCENT life, it is as if they have killed all of mankind....

The key wording there is INNOCENT...and ones definition of innocent.

There are those from both religions who answer: context, context, context. You can take a quote from either book to justify hatred, but most likely you will be taking it out of historical context. Both Christians and Muslims have taken quotes from their religious books to justify hatred. During the Christian crusades, and during the current turmoil in the predominately Islamic nations, you have unstable areas with wars, death, destruction. Lots of hatred, and lots of people wanting to control others.

Agreed....

Lots of stuff taken from the Quran out of context.

Yeah, and more often than not it is taken "out of context" by those who justify their evil utilizing it.
Seems there is SOMETHING there that is being taken "out of context" by more than a few...no?

.................
Idk...the entire thing makes me sick, to be honest. Religion,et al, is a cancer.

a reply to: Jakal26

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

That particular line, supposedly said by jesus himself refutes the whole new testiment cancels out the old testiment, no?

the Quran says the infidels should be killed, but Mohammed also says that any Christian or Jew who loves God and does good will go to heaven.

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

.

well..... just how are those Jews/Christians/Sabians dispatched to their reward on their 'Last Day' ? are they stoned, crucified, beheaded on that Last Day?




oh...here is the post I had buried in my files which is why I came to post in the 1st place until I had to reply to the poster above me

...here is what i was going to make comment on at www.theeeconomiccollapseblog.com
but said NO it had to go on ATS instead...

RE: the 72 things that will mark you as an Extremist..--> (incarceration/reeducation/fema/DHS list).
theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

51. Those that would “impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)”

that item might seem to cover the Jihadists like IS/ISIS or radicals like happened in France recently...

But Øbama has already took the teeth out of that item...as 'strict' Islam is not terror nor radical...What the rest of the World sees as radical is just the Muslim equivalent of Outreach or Evangelizing, threating to saw off heads is just a normal part of winning converts/those who will agree to submit...
Moderate Muslims are thought of as apostates until re-educated, to be non-radical just passionate, I guess...

a reply to: Jakal26

Ahhh, but the people defending quotes from the old testament say that Jesus said he came not to get rid of the old laws but to fulfill them.

Nope, not twisting any wording. Here is the actual quote I am referring to:

(9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.

And here is the context of the quote:

www.alislam.org...