You Can’t Detox Your Body. It’s A Myth.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry it seems you are mixing things up.

This is about detox regimens. Though I did see you say one can detox.

Question: What is being detoxed? What are the toxins exactly? As the article said those questions were posed to the manufacturers of the detox regimens and no one responded.

If there are toxins they should be measurable both before and after in the human body.


The article and OP are not about eating healthy or fasting those are known to both have benefits but they do not detoxify the body.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

Whether it’s cucumbers splashing into water or models sitting smugly next to a pile of vegetables, it’s tough not to be sucked in by the detox industry. The idea that you can wash away your calorific sins is the perfect antidote to our fast-food lifestyles and alcohol-lubricated social lives. But before you dust off that juicer or take the first tentative steps towards a colonic irrigation clinic, there’s something you should know: detoxing – the idea that you can flush your system of impurities and leave your organs squeaky clean and raring to go – is a scam. It’s a pseudo-medical concept designed to sell you things.

“Let’s be clear,” says Edzard Ernst, emeritus professor of complementary medicine at Exeter University, “there are two types of detox: one is respectable and the other isn’t.” The respectable one, he says, is the medical treatment of people with life-threatening drug addictions. “The other is the word being hijacked by entrepreneurs, quacks and charlatans to sell a bogus treatment that allegedly detoxifies your body of toxins you’re supposed to have accumulated.”

If toxins did build up in a way your body couldn't excrete, he says, you'd likely be dead or in need of serious medical intervention. “The healthy body has kidneys, a liver, skin, even lungs that are detoxifying as we speak,” he says. “There is no known way – certainly not through detox treatments – to make something that works perfectly well in a healthy body work better.”

Much of the sales patter revolves around “toxins”: poisonous substances that you ingest or inhale. But it’s not clear exactly what these toxins are. If they were named they could be measured before and after treatment to test effectiveness.

Well this may upset some people that swear by the cleanse method. Personally I am glad this bit of information came my way because the process seems very unpleasant. I was looking into doing it when I stumbled on to this article. Now it is off the table for me because I don't see any benefit from trying it. I am sure there will be those who completely disagree with the findings they may even have some personal testimonies but I will have to go with science on this. If it did work as claimed then the companies selling them should be able to name the toxins. Right?

However...

When the scientists asked for evidence behind the claims, not one of the manufacturers could define what they meant by detoxification, let alone name the toxins. www.theguardian.com...

If you are on the fence about a expensive detox regimen like I was then this should be of interest to you.

www.mercola.com...
Mercury in the central nervous system (CNS) causes psychological, neurological, and immunological problems in humans.25 26 27 Mercury bonds very firmly to structures in the CNS through its affinity for sulfhydryl-groups on amino acids. Other studies have shown that mercury is taken up in the periphery by all nerve endings and rapidly transported inside the axon of the nerves (axonal transport) to the spinal cord and brainstem.28 29 30 Unless actively removed, mercury has an extremely long half-life of somewhere between 15 and 30 years in the CNS.1 31

Now we consider these studies...

Cilantro

Omura determined that cilantro could mobilize mercury and other toxic metals rapidly from the CNS.96 97

Cilantro mobilizes mercury, aluminum, lead and tin stored in the brain and in the spinal cord and moves it into the connective tissues. The mobilized mercury appears to be either excreted via the stool, the urine, or translocated into more peripheral tissues.

The mechanism of action is unknown. Cilantro alone often does not remove mercury from the body; it often only displaces the metals form intracellularly or from deeper body stores to more superficial structures, from where it can be easier removed with the previously described agents. The use of cilantro with DMSA or DMPS has produced an increase in motor nerve function.98

Sure there's quacks out there but these points alone should be enough to show that you can detox your body.
Limbo

a reply to: Limbo

It is on Mercola's site and the paper was published at the journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine and to top it off the abstract is about.

This paper reviews the published evidence supporting amalgam toxicity and describes practical and effective clinical techniques that facilitate mercury elimination. A literature review is provided which documents effective mercury elimination strategies to reduce mercury toxicity syndromes.

Considering the weight of evidence supporting mercury toxicity, it would seem prudent to select alternate dental restoration materials and consider effective mercury elimination strategies if mercury toxicity is present.

I don't think anything else needs to be added. Have you ever wondered why the Lancet and the British Medical Journal rejected the paper?

originally posted by: Limbo


Now we consider these studies...


Cilantro

Omura determined that cilantro could mobilize mercury and other toxic metals rapidly from the CNS.96 97

Cilantro mobilizes mercury, aluminum, lead and tin stored in the brain and in the spinal cord and moves it into the connective tissues. The mobilized mercury appears to be either excreted via the stool, the urine, or translocated into more peripheral tissues.

The mechanism of action is unknown. Cilantro alone often does not remove mercury from the body; it often only displaces the metals form intracellularly or from deeper body stores to more superficial structures, from where it can be easier removed with the previously described agents. The use of cilantro with DMSA or DMPS has produced an increase in motor nerve function.98


Sure there's quacks out there but these points alone should be enough to show that you can detox your body.
Limbo

It's not a study, it's a non-reviewed case report.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

As it stands, it's quite meaningless.

I don't think anything else needs to be added. Have you ever wondered why the Lancet and the British Medical Journal rejected the paper?

However the paper was journal published.
Should it really matter what Journal accepts it? (Getting dangerously close to sophistry.)

As for the other guys comment in that Mercola paper there's mice study comparing an active placebo vs cilantro etc in removing metals.

Another point wasn't EDTA developed to remove lead in painters on Russian ships?

If we stay in context with the weight of the evidence....

Why is EDTA used in lead poisoning?

Limbo

a reply to: Pardon?

You should have continued reading. I gave two excerpts and on the second one you can read this.

...
Prolonged fasting also protected against toxicity in a pilot clinical trial in which a small group of patients fasted for a 72-hour period prior to chemotherapy, extending Longo’s influential past research.

“While chemotherapy saves lives, it causes significant collateral damage to the immune system. The results of this study suggest that fasting may mitigate some of the harmful effects of chemotherapy,” said co-author Tanya Dorff, assistant professor of clinical medicine at the USC Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center and Hospital. “More clinical studies are needed, and any such dietary intervention should be undertaken only under the guidance of a physician.”
...

news.usc.edu...

a reply to: Limbo

However the paper was journal published.
Should it really matter what Journal accepts it? (Getting dangerously close to sophistry.)

I think you will find that it is very important which journal publishes a paper.

In fact I did a thread about it not to long ago. Unreliable research

As for the other guys comment in that Mercola paper there's mice study comparing an active placebo vs cilantro etc in removing metals.

It is a non reviewed case report.In other words unsubstantiated claim.

It isn't sophistry it is about reliability. When a paper is turned down by a reliable journal to be published in an a unknown one should be cautious.

Another point wasn't EDTA developed to remove lead in painters on Russian ships?

If we stay in context with the weight of the evidence....

Why is EDTA used in lead poisoning?

EDTA is a prescription medicine, given by injection into the vein (intravenously) or into the muscle. Take notice of the underlined.

Intravenous EDTA is used to treat lead poisoning and brain damage caused by lead poisoning; to evaluate a patient's response to therapy for suspected lead poisoning, to treat poisonings by radioactive materials such as plutonium, thorium, uranium, and strontium; for removing copper in patients with Wilson's disease; and for treating high levels of calcium.

Yes there are treatments for metal poisonings but they are not taken by drinking or eating the treatment. There is a reason they are injected and why they are prescription.

They are not over the counter detox regimens.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Toxins can refer to natural toxins, poisonous substances, produced within living cells or to synthetic toxins, or chemicals such as pesticides. When one is doing detox you are trying to get rid of as many of both as possible, which is why no particular toxin is mentioned. If you noticed even in your article that researcher merely calls them toxins. He doesn't specify either because when you are talking about toxins is not one particular toxin over another that you are trying to get rid of, or you are trying to help your body to more easily get rid of as many toxins as possible.

Doing fruit, juice and 2-4 day water fasting are also detox regimes (of course fruits and vegetables still contain chemicals such as pesticides, but this diet still help your body more easily get rid of more toxins, and fat than if you were eating at McDonalds every day), and that researcher claims that no detox regime works which is contrary to what other medical researchers have found.

Note that he also calls the "only respectable detox the medical treatment of people with life-threatening drug addictions"... He clearly is trying to claim that eating fruits, vegetables, natural juices, or doing water fasting does not detox the body, which is contrary to what other research suggests.

BTW, did that researcher mention how in the world is it a scam having a healthy diet of fruits, vegetables, and drink plenty of water and natural juices, or doing 2-4 day water fasting?... How does he propose that anyone can influence from where people buy their fruits and vegetables?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

As I said. This is not about fasting. I don't know why you keep bringing up fasting.

This is about detoxing.

the idea that you can flush your system of impurities and leave your organs squeaky clean and raring to go – is a scam. It’s a pseudo-medical concept designed to sell you things.

When the scientists asked for evidence behind the claims, not one of the manufacturers could define what they meant by detoxification, let alone name the toxins.

Please address the topic.

a reply to: Grimpachi

And water fasting is a form of detox... Already shown evidence of it twice yet like always you seem to become blind when evidence that contradicts your view is shown.

...
Prolonged fasting also protected against toxicity in a pilot clinical trial in which a small group of patients fasted for a 72-hour period prior to chemotherapy, extending Longo’s influential past research.
...

news.usc.edu...

Water fasting is a detox regime, and so is having a healthy diet of fruits, vegetables, grains, or drinking natural juices.

originally posted by: Limbo

Should it really matter what Journal accepts it? (Getting dangerously close to sophistry.)

Of course it matters. Anyone can set up a journal. Here ya go, ATS's very own journal as of right this second: Transactions on Credulity. Every one in this thread is now a member of the peer-review board.

So yes, the quality of the journal DOES matter. Not only that, but peer-review for papers is just checking the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. It alone doesn't really mean anything. Now, peer-review from the scientific community, that is to say the paper is torn to shreds, the criticisms adequately addressed and the experiment independently reproduced is what makes a sound, credible result.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

One word from your quote.

chemotherapy

Even from the title of the article.

Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system

The effects of fasting has been covered throughout the thread. I suggest you review them.


I don't think you understand what this thread is about or what they are referring to as toxins from chemotherapy.

I am curious as to what you think the toxins being referred to are. Can you elaborate?

a reply to: Grimpachi

oh boy...

Detox Diets: Cleansing the Body.

Juice Up Your Health

By Jeanie Lerche Davis
WebMD Feature

Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD



WebMD Archive

Set aside a weekend, it's time for spring cleaning -- more accurately, spring cleansing --even though it is already summer. Perfect for the procrastinators among us.

Spring cleansing means detoxifying your body, says Linda Page, ND, PhD, a naturopathic doctor, lecturer, and author of the book Detoxification.

It's a way to recharge, rejuvenate, and renew, says Page. "Anybody can benefit from a cleansing. The body is coming out of what might be called hibernation. It's a way you can jump-start your body for a more active life, a healthier life."

There's no vacuum or mop needed for this little "housekeeping" ritual. It means drinking juice -- a whole lot of juice and little else -- which pushes everything thing else out of your system, Page tells WebMD. You get the picture. You're clearing out all the tubes and pipes, as they say.

But to purists like Chris Strychacz, PhD, a research psychologist at the Naval Health Research Center in San Diego, Calif., fasting means "water only," he tells WebMD. He's been fasting for at least 25 years now, an annual weeklong ritual every spring.
...

www.webmd.com...

BTW, I am posting the above to show you proof that contrary to your claim fasting, including water fasting, are forms of detox regimes...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I notice you are not answering the question of what exactly the toxins are. Your Web MD article is cute but it doesn't name the toxins either.

The OP stands.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Limbo

However the paper was journal published.
Should it really matter what Journal accepts it? (Getting dangerously close to sophistry.)

I think you will find that it is very important which journal publishes a paper.

In fact I did a thread about it not to long ago. Unreliable research

As for the other guys comment in that Mercola paper there's mice study comparing an active placebo vs cilantro etc in removing metals.

It is a non reviewed case report.In other words unsubstantiated claim.

It isn't sophistry it is about reliability. When a paper is turned down by a reliable journal to be published in an a unknown one should be cautious.

Another point wasn't EDTA developed to remove lead in painters on Russian ships?

If we stay in context with the weight of the evidence....

Why is EDTA used in lead poisoning?

EDTA is a prescription medicine, given by injection into the vein (intravenously) or into the muscle. Take notice of the underlined.

Intravenous EDTA is used to treat lead poisoning and brain damage caused by lead poisoning; to evaluate a patient's response to therapy for suspected lead poisoning, to treat poisonings by radioactive materials such as plutonium, thorium, uranium, and strontium; for removing copper in patients with Wilson's disease; and for treating high levels of calcium.

Yes there are treatments for metal poisonings but they are not taken by drinking or eating the treatment. There is a reason they are injected and why they are prescription.

They are not over the counter detox regimens.

Whether or not the journal is unreliable or not is a moot point in respect to the science inside.
The journal is irrelevant to the topic. Can you show the Journal in the topic is unreliable?

EDTA is also used topically in certain substances e.g. swarfaga.
It's no big deal that people use EDTA for other purposes.

Limbo

I was once (sort-of) involved in promoting detox programs, and YES, I can say that pretty much all of those products are scams...and most, if not all companies involved are outright criminal scammers. This is the reason I stopped promoting those products on my site(s).

But it's not only the detox industry that's basically one giant scam, it's also and in particular the entire diet and weight loss industry...and beyond. The scam basically starts when some "Doctor" appears on Oprah or whatever show where they promote whatever new method. There are millions, billions at play and anyone, book authors, magazines, vendors, health and fitness "experts" etc. of course want a share of it.

The problem is, people will always fall for it because everyone wants to be healthy, beautiful, skinny etc....it's an endless market.

a reply to: Limbo

Whether or not the journal is unreliable or not is a moot point in respect to the science inside.
The journal is irrelevant to the topic. Can you show the Journal in the topic is unreliable?

If a journal doesn't have standards then the papers they publish becomes irrelevant. That is the point.

EDTA is also used topically in certain substances e.g. swarfaga.
It's no big deal that people use EDTA for other purposes.

Yes I know it has many purposes but for the purpose of the OP I listed the purposes used to detoxify.

It can be found in shampoos, food processing, to dissolve limescale, the textile industry, the pulp and paper industry, catalyzing the disproportionation of hydrogen peroxide, in soft drinks, it is an anticoagulant for blood samples.

No one ever said it didn't have other purposes.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Pardon?

You should have continued reading. I gave two excerpts and on the second one you can read this.

...
Prolonged fasting also protected against toxicity in a pilot clinical trial in which a small group of patients fasted for a 72-hour period prior to chemotherapy, extending Longo’s influential past research.

“While chemotherapy saves lives, it causes significant collateral damage to the immune system. The results of this study suggest that fasting may mitigate some of the harmful effects of chemotherapy,” said co-author Tanya Dorff, assistant professor of clinical medicine at the USC Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center and Hospital. “More clinical studies are needed, and any such dietary intervention should be undertaken only under the guidance of a physician.”
...

news.usc.edu...

I did.
That's why I said there was no mention of detoxifying.

And it still doesn't, no matter how you try to interpret it.

Read it properly.

originally posted by: Limbo

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Limbo

However the paper was journal published.
Should it really matter what Journal accepts it? (Getting dangerously close to sophistry.)

I think you will find that it is very important which journal publishes a paper.

In fact I did a thread about it not to long ago. Unreliable research

As for the other guys comment in that Mercola paper there's mice study comparing an active placebo vs cilantro etc in removing metals.

It is a non reviewed case report.In other words unsubstantiated claim.

It isn't sophistry it is about reliability. When a paper is turned down by a reliable journal to be published in an a unknown one should be cautious.

Another point wasn't EDTA developed to remove lead in painters on Russian ships?

If we stay in context with the weight of the evidence....

Why is EDTA used in lead poisoning?

EDTA is a prescription medicine, given by injection into the vein (intravenously) or into the muscle. Take notice of the underlined.

Intravenous EDTA is used to treat lead poisoning and brain damage caused by lead poisoning; to evaluate a patient's response to therapy for suspected lead poisoning, to treat poisonings by radioactive materials such as plutonium, thorium, uranium, and strontium; for removing copper in patients with Wilson's disease; and for treating high levels of calcium.

Yes there are treatments for metal poisonings but they are not taken by drinking or eating the treatment. There is a reason they are injected and why they are prescription.

They are not over the counter detox regimens.

Whether or not the journal is unreliable or not is a moot point in respect to the science inside.
The journal is irrelevant to the topic. Can you show the Journal in the topic is unreliable?

EDTA is also used topically in certain substances e.g. swarfaga.
It's no big deal that people use EDTA for other purposes.

Limbo

DMSA and EDTA chelation can be used for the removal of heavy metals after prolonged and substantial exposure to them.
That's real medical detoxification.

There is no evidence that using them to attempt to remove the minute amounts we all have in our bodies has any beneficial effect whatsoever.
That's scam detoxification.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Grimpachi



Water fasting is a detox regime, and so is having a healthy diet of fruits, vegetables, grains, or drinking natural juices.

No it isn't.
It's a diet.
If anything it's trying to prevent "toxins" not get rid of them.
Any "toxins" that you have in your body prior to starting such a diet will be removed by the body regardless of the diet.
That's the bit you're not getting for some reason.