US War On Marijuana Coming To An End

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Hanslune

Curious, whats the point of being ilegal but unenforced?

So they can still make money from the fines they impose on it. They won't lock you up for possessing a certain amount that way they don't fill up the jails.

Having looked at this issue there are a few things that can be stated:

What this is going to boil down to in court, is the very nature of this drug versus that of other addictive substances and how it affects the body and the person.

Before we can take a look at why to legalize or keep it illegal, the main arguments should be looked at:

1) To legalize this drug, would be the height of hypocrisy. The country demonizes other addictive substances, such as tobacco use, or alcohol, or even those who are fat, yet they are looking and stating that pot is ok. Yet marijuana is still highly addictive. Many experts who have been working with addicts have found that it is one of the harder addictive drugs to kick, that many who do such, tend to start to chain smoke such or do such often to get and keep the high going on.
2) In countries where it is legal, they are finding that more and more children are exposed to such more frequently, to the point where a new generation is exposed to it. The areas numbers have gotten far worse, that they are having to start to regulate the businesses, to include shutting those down that are close to schools and where the children are, as to prevent their exposure to such.

3) Early testing and signs are showing that such can affect the mental health of persons who habitually use such. It is never good when a person, who is working with delicate items or even doing a job is high, as they are more likely to make mistakes with what they are doing. Would you want say a pilot or a person who is doing surgery on you, stoned up and then having to do something where a mistake could cost a life?

4) It is also a gateway drug, where many signs and admitting by those who are often busted for the more hard core drugs, admit to smoking such and then move onto the more hard core stuff, with far worse consequences.

The reasons for legalizing such are equally compelling:
1) There is some medical use for such, to help those that are suffering from some life conditions, such as cancer and HIV. The ability to alleviate pain and helps with such life condition, have not been studied fully to see if there are more medical benefits. Such studies are often looked at with the eyes of trying to discredit.
2) The prohibition of such has cost far too much in the way of lives and persons being made into criminals and clogging up the courts with endless court case, where the only crime was possession of a small amount, thus putting them into prisons, and then the person gets out and ends up paying a higher price for social stigma of having a record and more of a difficult time getting back into being a member of society.
3) The hodgepodge of laws is making it hard for the states that have made it legal. There was the case in Colorado, where it was legal, however, company policy meant a person can be fired for such in their system. To make matters worse, while some states have made it legal, the federal view is that it is still illegal and ultimately it is moving from a state crime to a federal crime. Along with those from those states where it is legal, are being targeted by the police in other states on the suspicion of such being in the vehicle.
4) The original reasons for prohibiting such, is based on a more racist reasons, and perhaps it is time for the states to relook at such and come up with a better reason for such.


The bottom line is that they need to look at the states who have legalized it, and the long term effects on the body should be carefully looked at, and verified by independent labs. They also need to make sure that it is regulated, and not to allow for it to be around children either, where it is more age restricted. Far too often such falls into the hands of children or those who are underage, and until we are sure what the effects are and the long term, it would be prudent, to not allow such.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

This was a material given to us to be used as food and medicine, along with recreational purposes. Compared to others, it's mostly safe. It's all about control and profit.

a reply to: onequestion

About freaking time, is all I can say.

You said it best with this:

"The defense has called into question the Drug Enforcement Administration’s classification of Marijuana as a Schedule I substance, which means that it is considered a dangerous drug with a high potential for abuse and it has no medical use."

Obviously this is total BS. If they dont understand the evidence and see it clearly they are obviously corrupt. The science speaks for itself, and theres plenty of it these days.

It is obvious they are corrupt.

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a reply to: Sabiduria

We need to move more into a scientific mindset, not total reductionist science but what i mean is we need to move into a paradigm where we set aside our egos and beliefs for analytical looks for the truth and stop this crappy world of money and loans and wall street.

The war will go on in many states as many growers plant there crop on public lands.
These grows are many time done by heavy armed people and do a lot of damage to public lands.

There are a number of areas of public land that i will not hike without being armed.

originally posted by: ANNED
The war will go on in many states as many growers plant there crop on public lands.
These grows are many time done by heavy armed people and do a lot of damage to public lands.

There are a number of areas of public land that i will not hike without being armed.

Obviously, if growers didn't have to hide their crops from the police, that particular problem would go away.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig


3) Early testing and signs are showing that such can affect the mental health of persons who habitually use such. It is never good when a person, who is working with delicate items or even doing a job is high, as they are more likely to make mistakes with what they are doing. Would you want say a pilot or a person who is doing surgery on you, stoned up and then having to do something where a mistake could cost a life?

4) It is also a gateway drug, where many signs and admitting by those who are often busted for the more hard core drugs, admit to smoking such and then move onto the more hard core stuff, with far worse consequences.

I know you posted some information that supports legalization, but I want to address these two points from your post.

Individual company policies won't be affected by marijuana legalization. It's legal to consume alcohol but if you show up to work drunk, you'll likely lose your job. Harder drugs will remain illegal but if you show up to work tweeking on meth, you'll be fired. Just because marijuana is made legal doesn't mean pre-employment drug testing goes away and everyone will be high at work so that's a completely illogical argument I'm tired of hearing from the anti-marijuana camp (not that you're anti-marijuana.)

The "gateway drug" label is also total baloney used to frighten the uninitiated. Caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, cough syrup, etc. could all be labeled "gateway drugs" as nobody jumps straight to hard drugs. There's a progression that experimental types go through and if marijuana were removed from the equation, they would still seek stronger stimulants. Most people go through their experimental phase and get it out of their system but people with addictive personality types or other psychological issues continue using hard drugs to escape reality. Addicts will be addicts, regardless which "gateway" they use.

a reply to: onequestion

There is a war on drugs, and the people on drugs are winning it!

-Bill Hicks

Whilst arguing about this topic - or should I saw disgussing it the point was put that if especially men took weed they whad no desire to work and that was one of the main reasons the government in the UK hated it.

Well plenty work and enjoy a joint at home in the evening to relax. In my book I see no crime all I see is government interference within people;s lives that should not exist. Now the evidence is slowly coming out that cannabis is a health beneficial plant, far better than cotton in that it doesn't need the fertiliser the cotton industry requires and it was used to help various health problems treatable at home, such has headache etc its hardly any wonder that it was made illegal around the timne asprin was released.

There is a war going on against the herbalist to allow the big pharma to get more profit. I do think people have the right to chose their medication without prosecution. I hope they win in the USA and they manage to stop their idea of putting drug users into jail. It would free up a lot of people and were it supplied on the shop front it would get rid of dodgy drugs and drug dealers plus earn a lot of extra tax revenue. Governments are so bullying and greedy as well as stupid.

a reply to: stirling
I am merely pointing out the main arguments on such. And ever single one of those points I have personally witnesses first hand, except the last one, which is based in historical fact.

a reply to: Answer

First of all, I am merely pointing out what I have seen and talked to people who have done such. The gateway drug is not total baloney, as I have talked to tweekers and those hooked on harder stuff, and they all stated the same thing, they all started out on marijuna. These people had no reason to lie to me, and by the time that they were getting help, there was no reason to lie to anyone.

The actually point on the conflicting stuff, is a point, that came up here recently where in Colorado, it is legal. A person used such, as it is legal in the state, then had to go in for a drug test. He tested pos for such in his system, and was terminated. The court case is still ongoing, but it shows this is one of the problems that is going to come up time and time again.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

But that is not a causal link. It's like saying that all gay men have masturbated, therefore masturbation makes you gay.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

And before that I bet they have had booze.
Is booze a gateway drug also?.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: ANNED
The war will go on in many states as many growers plant there crop on public lands.
These grows are many time done by heavy armed people and do a lot of damage to public lands.

There are a number of areas of public land that i will not hike without being armed.

Obviously, if growers didn't have to hide their crops from the police, that particular problem would go away.

If the cops raid these growers just run they are armed to protect there crops from other criminals but will shot at anyone but cops with M16s

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
Before we can take a look at why to legalize or keep it illegal, the main arguments should be looked at:

1) To legalize this drug, would be the height of hypocrisy. The country demonizes other addictive substances, such as tobacco use, or alcohol, or even those who are fat, yet they are looking and stating that pot is ok. Yet marijuana is still highly addictive. Many experts who have been working with addicts have found that it is one of the harder addictive drugs to kick, that many who do such, tend to start to chain smoke such or do such often to get and keep the high going on.

Source?

2) In countries where it is legal, they are finding that more and more children are exposed to such more frequently, to the point where a new generation is exposed to it. The areas numbers have gotten far worse, that they are having to start to regulate the businesses, to include shutting those down that are close to schools and where the children are, as to prevent their exposure to such.

Source? Actually check that. I'm just going to go ahead and say you are wrong.
'This Is Working': Portugal, 12 Years after Decriminalizing Drugs

3) Early testing and signs are showing that such can affect the mental health of persons who habitually use such. It is never good when a person, who is working with delicate items or even doing a job is high, as they are more likely to make mistakes with what they are doing. Would you want say a pilot or a person who is doing surgery on you, stoned up and then having to do something where a mistake could cost a life?

Moderation is key for anything. The effects aren't that bad by the way. Certainly not as bad as alcohol's damaging effects on the brain.

4) It is also a gateway drug, where many signs and admitting by those who are often busted for the more hard core drugs, admit to smoking such and then move onto the more hard core stuff, with far worse consequences.

No it isn't. That is 1980's anti-pot propaganda. Alcohol is the gateway drug, if one exists at all.

a reply to: sdcigarpig
With all due respect, you sound like someone who speaks not from experience or one that has put much effort into researching the facts - but more like someone reviving and rehashing severely outdated Government propaganda.

As a genuine heads-up, I'd recommend you go and do a little more homework on the subject before coming back and talking on such an important subject of which you know little about.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across a bit too rude for your liking but there's been ample amount of time and opportunity to start getting the facts straight on this matter - there is no excuse now but for sheer ignorance and lack of a will to learn, or that of more nefarious and disingenuous intent.

I'm sorry.

This case sounds promising. Its a start, and maybe the source of the real problem will be addressed some day.

IMO, I would rather see a challenge to the federal governments base assertion that they have the power to pass any criminal law whatsoever. Under the Constitution the States have the authority to pass criminal law, not the federal government. The Constitution is silent on a federal criminal power, except for high sea's crime and treason, and the Constitution clearly states that any power not expressly granted to the Federal government belongs to the States. The federal government can regulate, they can't criminalize and no amount of hand wringing and talk of pragmatism can change the wording of the constitution. The progressive supreme court decisions carving out criminal law jurisdiction for the federal are wrong and need to be overturned.

The whole war on drugs, the national fire arms act, the build up of the federal paramilitary and just about any other federal progressive legislation is the direct result of progressives trying to federalize the Republic. Most if not all federal crimes are legal aberrations explained by progressive excuses starting in the 1910's.