Ferguson Grand Jury: No Indictment for Darren Wilson in Michael Brown Shooting

a reply to: deadeyedick

Did you go look up probable cause? And now you've asked what it would take for me to have voted for both an indictment and not to indict. Make up your mind brah.

Either way, I'm at a loss as to what possible relevance it has on the thread.

a reply to: Shamrock6

yes i looked it up before i replied to the post accusing me of not knowing. i just wanted to make sure i was not wrong.

the relevence here is that all your post when viewed seems to paint a picture of someone that would not ever have returned a true bill. i assert that nothing would have convinced you and that if true points to a possible underlying factor you have that can not allow you to see things from a different perspective. possible causes that come to my mind would be racism, being paid or some type of medication. of coarse there are other answers i am unaware of.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Ah. So the only possible reason I can have for disagreeing with you and pointing out that you have yet to cite a single thing that meets the legal definition (that's the LEGAL one, not your own personal definition) is that I'm a racist, medicated, or a paid shill. Got it.

What does me knowing the law better than you have to do with any of that?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
So of the two shots fired inside the vehicle, one was recovered from the door and the other was in a wall that would've been behind Brown, as he was facing the vehicle? Am I understanding or have I got it backwards?

I'm on my mobile, so I keep having to scroll back up to the picture to confirm directions and such. Apologies for being difficult

Assuming the second shot was fired from inside the vehicle, yes. If you note the red car in the bottom-center of the overhead diagram, left is the southeast corner of the apartment to the south of Wilson's SUV. I had read that the bullet struck a few feet to the left of that, in siding surrounding a window. The bullet was definitely removed, as it was mentioned in the CARE report.

Looking at the photograph showing the damage again, about a quarter of the page, I am certain that they have the location pegged right.

Also, their assumption was prior to the report mentioned above, which says this:

During the investigation at the scene, Detective also noted and directed his attention to the apartment building known and numbered as 2960 Canfield Drive. Detective observed this building's exterior consisted of brick and vinyl siding. On the north side of this building, was damage consistent with having been struck by a projectile.

The street number is on the south side of the street, per The Municipal Code of St. Louis (Google maps also thinks it is the building on the south, and you can see the building number on Street View). Additionally, in the reflection of the photograph, there is a small bush and curving driveway, which are across the street from this building in a mirrored position. There is also an investigator standing on a sidewalk immediately to the right of the tree, which puts the position on the southeast corner of this building with almost 100% certainty.

However, the angle - it traveled from the SUV - is very high; to relate, imagine if the car window was present and rolled up, to achieve that angle the, door would have to be cracked open and the right side of the gun pressed almost up to the glass. Wilson said he saw a cloud of dust and knew he hadn't hit Brown after the second shot, which implies a ground strike... It's perhaps possible that it was a ricochet, but it seems odd.

edit, assuming second shot came from inside SUV:

a reply to: Greven

I got you. I looked at the diagrams again and I still think it's likely that the casings were disturbed during the initial scuffle. I base this off the location of the casings compared to how Wilson would've most likely had to have been positioned for the casings (and the one round in the building) to wind up where they did.

Given where the casings are, Wilson would've had to have been facing in either the complete wrong direction, or an almost entirely wrong direction, for the casings to be where they are without having been disturbed in anyway.

Or Wilson got a shot off while fighting for the gun. Or a ricochet. Or a negligent discharge while exiting the vehicle. All possibilities. Though given Wilson's shot placement I do think it unlikely that he fired intentionally from near his vehicle and missed by that great a margin. He would've had to have been completely off target, by a lot, to miss by that much.

This is without knowing any minutiae like the slope of the road on that side, etc


My edit responds to yours.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Oh, there is another thing I came across in the CARE report, and I think it relates to a different building - so this might be a 7th round retrieved.

The building sits just east ofthe incident location and the front of the building faces Canfield Drive. The building consists ofthree levels which are accessible via an exterior wooden staircase structure attached to the building.

Detective directed his attention to the wooden third level landing. Detective observed, while standing on this landing and looking to the west, there was a direct line of sight to the area where the incident took place. There were no obstructions between the landing and the area of occurrence.

On the west side hand rail of the stairwell was an area of damaged wood from an apparent projectile. Detective observed a corresponding hole in the vinyl siding and wood of the wall.

If not, it's an odd report, since it mentions the third floor landing, which doesn't match the image of the damaged siding at all. The building is not named and I have been unable to find an image corresponding to this damage, as of yet.

Speaking of that particular round... there might be another issue. If you notice, there is a semi-enclosed exterior stairwell that appears to be between the damaged ground level siding and Wilson's SUV. The street-facing side of the stairwell is all brick, and the sides are open. It appears that the stairs themselves are wood with wooden railings. That limits the angle a bit on where the shot could have come from... in fact, it looks like that bullet path outlined in black above would strike the brick outer wall of the stairwell.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Shamrock6

All I would say in regard to the casings near the vehicle is that it's entirely possible that the casings got kicked around, either by Brown himself or Wilson when exiting the vehicle. The only other alternative is that Wilson was out of the vehicle, given the placement of the casings, and we know that to not be the case.

that is probable cause.

"Probable cause" is a level of certainty required on the street, for example to effect an arrest by an officer. It is not a factor in Grand Jury proceedings, nor in a court room trial.

In other news... not a single pair of work boots was looted from Ferguson...

jk read that joke on FB and just had to share

a reply to: nenothtu

No kidding? And what does a grand jury do? Determines whether there is probable cause to believe a person committed a crime.

"The investigatory functions of the grand jury include obtaining and reviewing documents and other evidence and hearing the sworn testimony of witnesses that appear before it. The grand jury's accusatory function is to determine whether or not there is probable cause to believe that one or more persons committed a certain offense within the venue of the district court."

Thanks

This thread will be discussed on ATS live! tonight

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Shamrock6

I remembered something else that I don't know if I mentioned...
By Wilson's testimony, the crime scene evidence, and the audio recording of most of the shooting, Brown could not have been moving quickly towards Wilson

Brown moved roughly 25 feet, maybe a little more or less, from the last visible blood stains on the roadway. This furthest bloodstain is near a light pole that Wilson identified Brown having stopped and turned around towards him. Wilson then testified that Brown continued towards him as he fired.

Wilson claims a series of shots, a pause as he notices details and Brown still moving towards him, he starts to backpedal and shoots again. Wilson claims another pause and backpedal at the still-advancing Brown before the final shot or shots that end Brown's life. This is the audio recording:

The entire duration of the shooting is 6.57 seconds. Unless he is talking about the less than a second pause immediately after the shot after the ~3 second pause, I'm not sure what he's talking about. ~25 feet in 6.57 seconds is 3.8 feet per second - less than the average walking speed of 4-4.5 feet per second (depending on source).

Additionally, this is assuming Wilson responded immediately by shooting at Brown advancing - if he waited before shooting, Brown took even longer to move.

Based on Wilson's own testimony - there is no way that Brown was "charging" or "running" or even jogging at him. A prosecutor who wanted to actually indict him would have bothered to mention this.

*double post, oops*

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: deadeyedick



Ah. So the only possible reason I can have for disagreeing with you and pointing out that you have yet to cite a single thing that meets the legal definition (that's the LEGAL one, not your own personal definition) is that I'm a racist, medicated, or a paid shill. Got it.



What does me knowing the law better than you have to do with any of that?

exactly!
the post was aimed to try and take away some of the tension in the debate we were having.

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: deadeyedick

a reply to: Shamrock6

All I would say in regard to the casings near the vehicle is that it's entirely possible that the casings got kicked around, either by Brown himself or Wilson when exiting the vehicle. The only other alternative is that Wilson was out of the vehicle, given the placement of the casings, and we know that to not be the case.

that is probable cause.

"Probable cause" is a level of certainty required on the street, for example to effect an arrest by an officer. It is not a factor in Grand Jury proceedings, nor in a court room trial.

I would say that you are wrong but you did not really get your point across either way. Are you saying they were not there to find probable cause cause i agree with that even though that is what they were supposed to be doing. You want to compare it to what a cop does? They can find the clothes you wear or the looks of your ride to be probable cause. Why could this gj be performed the same as the majority of them have been? The blaring probable cause is wilson running and gunning while breaking protocall and putting himself in extreme danger along with every other breathing organic life form on the street that day. That along with much other pieces of a puzzle that when looked at some will say one thing and others the opposite.

Most gj will indict on even one single piece of the puzzle or especially if witness statments differ.But here we had a closed court room that went beyond the scope of a gj. Now add all the self proclaimed people knowledgable in law that ignore so many facts and acting like this was a trial while negating that contrary pieces of the puzzle that are exactly what it takes to indict.

at this point the prosecutor and staff need to be held accountable.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Calling somebody a racist, a shill, or medicated is supposed to "ease the tension?" On what planet does accusing somebody of being racist lessen anything?

a reply to: Shamrock6

earth
it is about context

as you have shown in previous post you search for personal character flaws to point at to take the heat away from a corrupt proceeding that is the topic. even taking extreme greivence when i pointed out words that you yourself labeled your self in your avatar. it is a shill tactic and imo is akin to grasping at tiny roots that will never stop your plunge into the pit of lies you continue to dig for yourself and others. on top of that by wording i did not call you anything directly and if my words were on trial and you were to be speaking on my behalf the same as you speak for the guilty in this thread then they would not have probable cause to indict me of calling you anything at any point in this thread.

a reply to: Greven

Based on Wilson's own testimony - there is no way that Brown was "charging" or "running" or even jogging at him.

Based on Wilson's testimony he started firing after Brown had been approaching him and he gave orders for him to get on the ground. Based on Wilson's testimony there is no way to determine how far Brown had moved when Wilson opened fire so there is no way that the audio could be used to determine the rate of Brown's advance when Wilson started firing.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Greven

Based on Wilson's own testimony - there is no way that Brown was "charging" or "running" or even jogging at him.

Based on Wilson's testimony he started firing after Brown had been approaching him and he gave orders for him to get on the ground. Based on Wilson's testimony there is no way to determine how far Brown had moved when Wilson opened fire so there is no way that the audio could be used to determine the rate of Brown's advance when Wilson started firing.

dude you are the man when it comes to things of this nature. Sure we can not exactly figure out how fast he was traveling but we can know some things.

the blood trail indicates a decent approx of total distance traveled.

we know the claim of brown was charging and that the fast pace gave reason to believe his life was in danger. so we can assume most of the distance was covered at a fast rate if wilson was telling the truth.

we then have the recorded shots.

i think you get the picture that something does not add up.

probable cause

a reply to: deadeyedick

so we can assume most of the distance was covered at a fast rate if wilson was telling the truth.

Ok.

we then have the recorded shots.

Yes. Which I'm not sure have been authenticated but lets say they have been.

i think you get the picture that something does not add up.

What doesn't add up? Help me out here.

a reply to: Phage

the recording was accepted by the gj.

wilson stated he began firing when brown turned around and charged.

come on phage you can get this one if you try.