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originally posted by: Hanslune
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Hanslune
Yes i'm sure you're right, if you want something doing best do it yourself, and after all it is all my own research and ideas.
if YOU don't do it the information will probably be lost.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Opiates are always going to be addictive which would explain why the Akkadians chose to suppress cultivation and associated cults.
She grew the 'tree' plant, she grew the 'honey' plant, she grew the 'vegetable' plant, she grew the esparto grass (?), she grew the atutu plant, she grew the aštaltal plant, she grew the …… plant, she grew the amḫaru plant.
it must be brewed like tea for the alkaloids to be transferred through water solubility. However not boiled or it kills off the delicate opiate alkaloids. This is how poppy pod tea and poppy seed tea is made. Which can easily kill you if the contents are too strong and there's no real way to measure except to sip slowly.
originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Kantzveldt
Really cool thread. Those seals do seem to depict poppies. I'm curious though, your sources seem to mention that this plant of joy was cultivated for a drink. Is it even possible to derive any sort of intoxication from opium if it's in a drink or if it's eaten?
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
But if it was simply the case that production and distribution passed from one group to another i'd still be expecting to see the plant mentioned in medicinal and trade records even if it's been taken out of a sacred or social context, there seems to be no evidence for the plants cultivation and usage after the early Dynastic period
originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Kantzveldt
Really cool thread. Those seals do seem to depict poppies. I'm curious though, your sources seem to mention that this plant of joy was cultivated for a drink. Is it even possible to derive any sort of intoxication from opium if it's in a drink or if it's eaten?
originally posted by: evc1shop
Yes, my ancestors came from Italy, grandfather grew up in Matera but lived in the old part, the Sassi di Matera which are a bunch of caves/ homes carved out of a hillside above a river and valley. He has told us stories of the poppies and how the locals used to make tea to give the kids and put them to sleep so that the peasant farmers could work the fields when they did not have daycare. And, yes, sometimes overdoses would happen and a child would die. I guess there was some strength to it even in diluted forms.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: KilgoreTrout
It's quite easy to figure the sum of nothing, there is simply no further mention of the plant known.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
From the evidence i have evaluated it was only ever produced as a drink and directly related to the cult of Ninshubur in her capacity of Minister to the Anunna Gods and to the people of the land in order to soothe hearts and to bring joy, and to the Goddess Uttu as a sacred plant.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
The cults concerned with medicine and surgery, Gula, Bau, Ninisin,Ninsumen, there is seemingly no evidence from texts or iconography they were ever concerned with the plant and its extract.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
The seals themselves are of the archaic into the early Dynastic Period and end with the arrival of the Akkadian, they were fairly localized to Uruk and Jemdat Nas'r culture, you cannot presume they traded with Egypt as no examples are found there, though they are found as far away as Dilmun.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
The Eastern Mediterranean, Greece and Egypt didn't need to source any of their traditions from Mesopotamia with regards to the Opium Poppy as it has been first cultivated in that region, the common denominator being Turkey.
originally posted by: KantzveldtNot the best source, there isn't much online, but this might help...
www.aggsbach.de...
Turkey is a modern producer of opium but in ancient times not so much. The climate is not ideal for it to occur naturally so it was likely introduced from Europe, and/or further East.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
The only potential for continued usage in Mesopotamia is actually with regards to the translation of the spider Goddess Uttu at the top of the sacred tree into the winged disk and it's direct relationship to Divine Kingship, the figure within it wielding the sacred bow which had gone on to represent Canis Major, so perhaps becoming exclusive as a mystery aspect of the Royal Cult, but that was not who the grail had first served...
In relation to Uttu, apart from her patronage of textile crafts, it is her storyteller/trickster role, passing information between the realms particularly the Moon that could be a tangible link to opium harvesting. And cultivation in general, but the Nippur tablet and the subsequent tradition as transmitted to Egypt onwards, emphasise the significance of the Moon.
originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Your further points, i suggested Turkey (and Northern Syria) as the common denominator of the Neolithic expansion, they all seemed to know of Opium cultivation which traces back to the early Neolithic and as far as Dilmun goes it is the seals themselves that have been found there not impressions, it was virgin territory before being settled so seal types give indication were those settlers were from, the earliest seal type found in Arabia is of the seated woman with spider seen in the OP,late 4th millenium Uruk
The Anunnaki were sent out on a mission to find different minerals; gold, plutonium, uranium, etc. They mined several planets in our solar systems including Mars (Lahmu) and Earth (Tiamat)
originally posted by: greyer
a reply to: Kantzveldt
You know why the Annunaki theory has more evidence than the ancient giants theory? Well there is evidence that these Nephilim or Annunaki 'fell from the sky.'
The Anunnaki were sent out on a mission to find different minerals; gold, plutonium, uranium, etc. They mined several planets in our solar systems including Mars (Lahmu) and Earth (Tiamat)
Don't you love it when one piece of evidence answers ALL of our most deepest questions about the mysterious?
No, I listen to the evidence,