Sexism: Men and Women Clothing Critiques

Does it really matter who criticized or judged who?

Man made a point -- point made.

originally posted by: Annee
Does it really matter who criticized or judged who?

Man made a point -- point made.

It does when the discussion points to mostly or only women being the criticizers...did you read any of the posts?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee
Does it really matter who criticized or judged who?

Man made a point -- point made.

It does when the discussion points to mostly or only women being the criticizers...did you read any of the posts?

Edited: Yes, I see your point. No one posting in this thread has any information on who is doing the criticizing. Any information gleened from the thread has been anecdotal or supposition.

From the article, bolding mine,

He told Australia's Fairfax Media that while no one asked about his suit, people regularly commented about and criticized the outfits worn by co-host Lisa Wilkinson.

No mention of the gender of the complainers.

a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree, and as the complainers' genders have not been identified, how is it that the speculations from some posters here on this thread is that the complainers are women?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Really... Come dressed as a Tellytubby next time. I'm sure that'll get him noticed.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree, and as the complainers' genders have not been identified, how is it that the speculations from some posters here on this thread is that the complainers are women?

To be blunt, it's because those notions conform to their own biases about women. The unfortunate thing is that there is a culture of women being incredibly critical of each others clothing, which is also symptomatic of a larger patriarchal standards of what is to be considered a desirable trait.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree, and as the complainers' genders have not been identified, how is it that the speculations from some posters here on this thread is that the complainers are women?

To be blunt, it's because those notions conform to their own biases about women. The unfortunate thing is that there is a culture of women being incredibly critical of each others clothing, which is also symptomatic of a larger patriarchal standards of what is to be considered a desirable trait.

I agree again because until women take ownership of their bodies and what clothing they and only they decide to put on it, then they and their criticizers (all biased genders) are lost in fashionista-land.

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: corvuscorrax


Well it's pretty typical. At red carpet type events all the men are wearing the same generic tux with maybe a goofy tie.
Everyone talks about what the women are wearing. I guess if women all decide to start wearing the same thing in formal events we wouldn't have the discussion.

dont know what you watch....
i am a sucker for the oscars and grammys and the red carpet show that leads to it.

of course the difference between the ladies clothes are far more obvious, they devote a lot of time to the guys as well.
they always pull the men aside and ask them who they are wearing and this and that...just like the ladies...

so yeah, it happens. i watch them every year

That's a courtesy I'd wager. No one really gives a damn 'who' some dude is wearing. Also I'll throw some more biases out there for Shill and inthelight. It could have been some homosexual or metrosexual men that made the comments.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. I'm not saying they're always right but I'd bet over 50% which is a good enough bet for me.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree, and as the complainers' genders have not been identified, how is it that the speculations from some posters here on this thread is that the complainers are women?

Women buy fashion and craft magazines, men buy sports and car magazines. That's a broad generalization, not a generalization about broads. I find it hard to believe that men were complaining about her hair and clothes. If she was showing to much chest I can see the older generate of men speaking up. It's only speculation,

a reply to: InTheLight

Women will always be lost in fashionista land, sorry. It's in most women's nature to nitpick over appearance. That's part of our built-in competitive nature for landing a mate -- not unlike the pretty male birds putting on a visual show, but it's the women in our human case. I don't find being dolled up particularly important (then again, I'm already hitched & it's become less & less important over time anyway) but many others still do, and will continue to. It's not really patriarchal so much as part of our nature already.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee
Does it really matter who criticized or judged who?

Man made a point -- point made.

It does when the discussion points to mostly or only women being the criticizers...did you read any of the posts?

How did you determine that?

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: InTheLight

Women will always be lost in fashionista land, sorry. It's in most women's nature to nitpick over appearance. That's part of our built-in competitive nature for landing a mate -- not unlike the pretty male birds putting on a visual show, but it's the women in our human case. I don't find being dolled up particularly important (then again, I'm already hitched & it's become less & less important over time anyway) but many others still do, and will continue to. It's not really patriarchal so much as part of our nature already.

See guys, women can be sexists too!

This is an example of someone making a claim that isn't actually true. If it were the kind of biological norm that is implied, we would find the example relatively consistent throughout all of culture. One need not look too far from our own culture to find another where the men dress flashy, and wear makeup, and the women wear drab colors, or even hide their faces.

(I'm looking at you, Saudi Arabia)

a reply to: AgentShillington

I see it more as a result of the fashion and media industries.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee
Does it really matter who criticized or judged who?

Man made a point -- point made.

It does when the discussion points to mostly or only women being the criticizers...

It was one assertion in a response at the very beginning that headed this conversation in this direction. Honestly, it was an assumptive assertion, that may or may not be true and a bunch of people grabbed that bit in their teeth and ran with it. It was nowhere in the OP, and while the It's-Mostly-Women-Anyway perspective may be a likely enough assumption it is a myopic view of a complex social phenomenon. There is more to this than women taking swipes at other women over shoes or the length of a skirt. Social drivers for behavior are more sophisticated then that.

On another note, you are the one that will escalate this situation into something pointless with this:

originally posted by: InTheLight
...did you read any of the posts?

This one offhand bit of snark is where this thread will derail into entrenched gender mud-slinging. It's a shame.

originally posted by: Grovit

originally posted by: jimmyx
what if the man wore a red suit one day, then a lime-green suit the next day, then a kilt with a pink shirt the next, brown leopard stretch-pants with silver shirt and gold tie the next.....he would immediately be thrown off the show for looking ridiculous and not being serious.

but if a lady does something like that she has style.
she would be a fashionista....

that is more like sexism to me

maybe I'll be the first man out here that says that I like to look at hotly dressed women, whether in a business suit with a pair of pumps, or short shorts with a tank top and sandals....geez, why do guys always have to seem like we are above all that...during my life I've leered, and ogled, at the same time I've tried to be discreet about it...it's called physical attraction, and as a man I'm not ashamed of the thoughts I have had...besides, it's really about the action you do, or do not take, and not the filthy, lecherous, thoughts you have running through the old noggin"

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: AgentShillington

I see it more as a result of the fashion and media industries.

It's easy to blame industries for our problems, but eventually we gotta take personal responsibility. Do you think everyone at FOXnews thinks that what they are saying is the truth? Of course not. It's a brand, and they are selling what their consumers want. Just like the fashion industry. Supply and Demand. We are demanding sexist culture, so we are sold sexist culture. Stop demanding it and the supply will go away.

(This works for everything. When's the last time you saw a kid playing with jacks?)

a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree but then if you try to argue against it you get called a feminazi.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: InTheLight

Women will always be lost in fashionista land, sorry. It's in most women's nature to nitpick over appearance. That's part of our built-in competitive nature for landing a mate -- not unlike the pretty male birds putting on a visual show, but it's the women in our human case. I don't find being dolled up particularly important (then again, I'm already hitched & it's become less & less important over time anyway) but many others still do, and will continue to. It's not really patriarchal so much as part of our nature already.

See guys, women can be sexists too!

This is an example of someone making a claim that isn't actually true. If it were the kind of biological norm that is implied, we would find the example relatively consistent throughout all of culture. One need not look too far from our own culture to find another where the men dress flashy, and wear makeup, and the women wear drab colors, or even hide their faces.

(I'm looking at you, Saudi Arabia)

And you can be the most objective, non-biased person in the world! We all have our parts to play and our opinions or in your case the lack thereof. Except for Muslim countries I suppose

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: AgentShillington

I agree but then if you try to argue against it you get called a feminazi.

Feminazi is only a pejorative term to people that think calling someone a feminist isn't bad enough. If I don't think feminist is a bad word, why should I think being a super feminist is a bad word?

a reply to: AgentShillington

Don't think adding Nazi onto something makes it super.
However I don't think this is specific to women, a lot of fashion designers are men, a lot of fashion bloggers are men. The male grooming and fashion industry is massive.
It's the whole culture of fame and celebrity.