Muslims discovered America before Columbus says Turkish President

a reply to: LABTECH767

I think you will find that even small tribes have experienced slavery. Anytime you begin to get the concept of buying and selling, then it is a logical extension for that to extend to the humans, too. At that point, when you start putting a value in goods on a life, it's only a matter of time.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: douglas5
FYI pizza wasn't invented by Italians either

It was though. Wikipedia: History of Pizza.

a reply to: douglas5
Who really discovered America? The world will never know. Think about it. Was it a dude/dudett walking across the Bering Strait? Or when Pangaea broke up was there someone already on a plate that broke off? Would that mean that no one discovered it? One often wonders.

Great glad they did good hundreds of years ago hurray! Seems now days they don't do much nothing. Other than kill innocent people and live backward.

a reply to: Tarzan the apeman.

The Pangea break up happened before the Dinosaurs went extinct, so I think we can rule that particular theory out

a reply to: ketsuko

there is no ethnicity or culture that is free of having been both slaver and enslaved

Please cite one instance — just one will do — of a hunter-gatherer culture in which slavery exists or existed.

a reply to: douglas5

Someone has to ask Erdogan what should we do with druids (celts) and vikings?

Albans first, then vikings, then portugese.....the Italian pretty much discovered the bahamas....ROFL

Of course the Innu pretty much knew who they were and weren't in dire need of "discovering", and we all know the wheels came off the bus as far as the beothuk people were concerned.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Please cite one instance — just one will do — of a hunter-gatherer culture in which slavery exists or existed.

If I may - the only reason that hunter-gatherer societies do not appear to have had slaves is the scarcity of food. It would simply be impossible to keep a slave when it is hard enough to find food for yourself.

However, in any society where they have progressed to agriculture and engage in warfare, slavery is never far behind. From the ancient societies of Mesopotamia, to the Roman Empire, to the Far east and the Khmer, or the Ancient Chinese dynasties, it seems to be a normal and omnipresent feature.

EDIT: It is worth noting that Native Americans did keep war captives as slaves, took women from defeated tribes as wives etc. Do they count as "hunter gatherers". I suppose they do, they didn't do much in the way of farming or fixed settlements.

Also, another thing to note is that when two hunter-gatherer tribes/family group would be in competition over resources (a herd, for example) they wouldn't have taken slaves because they would have simply wiped the other tribe/family group out. Evidence of such massacres have been found across Europe. Perhaps they would have kept the women as "wives", but these would have simply been slaves in all but name.

originally posted by: stumason
If I may - the only reason that hunter-gatherer societies do not appear to have had slaves is the scarcity of food. It would simply be impossible to keep a slave when it is hard enough to find food for yourself.

I haven't done the research, but I suspect that indigenous North American H/G societies had slaves. More importantly, on the whole, I don't believe that scarcity of food was the prevailing issue. They conducted...some still do...their seasonal rounds and did well enough to people this continent a lot longer than us Europeans have. I recall hearing in my Anthro 101 that H/G societies spend less time per day in 'making a living' than we do today. Something to think about, eh?

Add edit to report that some peoples were farmers, and again, did quite well at it. Villages of many hundreds of inhabitants were not at all unusual.[

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ketsuko

there is no ethnicity or culture that is free of having been both slaver and enslaved

Please cite one instance — just one will do — of a hunter-gatherer culture in which slavery exists or existed.

Inuit

Among the Inuit, where a woman contributed no food calories, her cooking and production of warm, dry hunting clothes were vital: a man cannot both hunt and cook. The pressure could drive widowers or bachelors to neighboring territories in an attempt to steal a woman, even if it meant killing her husband. The problem was so pervasive that ... unfamiliar men would normally be killed even before questions were asked. Lust was not the motivation for stealing wives. "The vital importance of a wife to perform domestic services provided the most usual motive for abduction," according to ethnographer David Riches.

Wrangham, Richard (2009). How Cooking Made us Human. p. 169

Raids for women and taking them forcibly into marriage was common in many early societies.

a reply to: Astyanax
The best two examples are both from the US northwest, both Tinglit and Haida peoples actively took slaves. The paiutes and shoshone as well as their cousins the Comanche were slave takers.
Most of the people of the gulf coast also took slaves, see the journal of Cabeza de Vaca.

Hello all, this is my first post. Fun, and food for thought....

Look up Grand Canyon caves. Supposedly this guy Kincaid found a cave that could house over 50,000 people and was decorated in various Eastern-themed religious motifs. Please check into this. Not sure how it appiles...except Columbus wasn't the first.

originally posted by: slatesteam
Hello all, this is my first post. Fun, and food for thought....

Look up Grand Canyon caves. Supposedly this guy Kincaid found a cave that could house over 50,000 people and was decorated in various Eastern-themed religious motifs. Please check into this. Not sure how it appiles...except Columbus wasn't the first.

Welcome to the monkey house! This is indeed one of our more dynamic topics, and will require fine-tuning your Bravo Sierra detector. But you'll find that as fast as the speculative hokum is beaten back, new data emerges to change the scientific paradigm. So it remains exciting.

a reply to: douglas5

I can't resist this sadly .... and the first nations discovered it before all of them

Since the wild speculation light is on.....



I have a can of Hormel Chili (without beans) which sits next to my desk. It has a marvelous supernatural power and it tells me that the first HSS to enter what we know as the Americas was a young man named Ook'n a fourteen year old apprentice hunter who was scouting in front of his family group as it moved along following a herd this was July 7th 21,039 BCE at 9:01 in the morning, four days later they crossed back into what would later become the Bering Straits.

: ]

I am really sorry. I hate to hate people but I served the US military for 20 years defending Muslim countries. All I got from them is hate for my life, my religion and way of life. I had to act a certain way while defending them. You know what &%^$ them. Go to hell and die. I have no love or care for you beyond the oil you sit on and I wish my country now had the will to just kick your AZZ and force you to become civilized human beings.

I am done with you. My votes from now one will go toward your demise.

originally posted by: Hanslune
Since the wild speculation light is on.....



I have a can of Hormel Chili (without beans) which sits next to my desk. It has a marvelous supernatural power and it tells me that the first HSS to enter what we know as the Americas was a young man named Ook'n a fourteen year old apprentice hunter who was scouting in front of his family group as it moved along following a herd this was July 7th 21,039 BCE at 9:01 in the morning, four days later they crossed back into what would later become the Bering Straits.

: ]

Damn...must be some fine chili!! Can we get that stuff up here?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Hanslune
Since the wild speculation light is on.....



I have a can of Hormel Chili (without beans) which sits next to my desk. It has a marvelous supernatural power and it tells me that the first HSS to enter what we know as the Americas was a young man named Ook'n a fourteen year old apprentice hunter who was scouting in front of his family group as it moved along following a herd this was July 7th 21,039 BCE at 9:01 in the morning, four days later they crossed back into what would later become the Bering Straits.

: ]

Damn...must be some fine chili!! Can we get that stuff up here?

I sent you a PM with a phone numbers, its to one of the top canned chili smugglers in the lower 48.