woman hears over 100 cat calls while walking through nyc

a reply to: Tangerine

Oblivious to.

To parrot what you so often like to say.

"You missed the point"

a reply to: signalfire

While being filmed....
It is a three minute video and she walked for ten hours.
How many saw she was being filmed and said something because of that.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: signalfire

While being filmed....
It is a three minute video and she walked for ten hours.
How many saw she was being filmed and said something because of that.

None of them, the camera was hidden and they weren't looking at the guy walking in front of her. And did you notice what she was carrying? Two microphones in her hands; they didn't notice that either. They were looking at her tits, ass and hair; you know it and I know it. And they thought that gave them the right to speak to a specific stranger in a crowded city with strangers everywhere, most of whom they are ignoring.

After reading several other newssites about this and reading the responses (filled with clueless men telling women to get over themselves, a rather vague and odd term considering we're simply demanding the right to be left alone) I ask you this: do these yahoos hanging around on street corners all day long hoot at policewoman who are armed? I think not.

Maybe we need an 'open season' on yahoos. Give the women of all large cities a month of No Questions Asked and allow them to also Concealed Carry. We'd not only clean up the streets of useless riff-raff, but lower the fake unemployment numbers to boot, since none of these useless and dangerous creatures seem to be gainfully employed or even pretending to look for jobs.

Did all you people ( I use the term loosely) note that she got DEATH AND RAPE threats after the video came out?

I suppose that's because men (another loose term) 'thought she was soooo beautiful' they just couldn't help themselves?

Again, get a clue. Street harassment isn't about dating, it's about violence always simmering under the surface of male-female relationships.

a reply to: signalfire

So what exactly is the full count of actual failed come-ons/supposed harassment and simple greetings for her 10-hour long video? Because I'm betting since they counted things like a polite "Good Evening", which was clearly a simple GOOD EVENING, that the come-ons were probably a lot fewer than they lead you to believe. If you need to pad your accusations count that way, something's fishy as hell.

Why are you supporting simple greetings being categorized as harassment in the first place? This makes no sense. Telling me good morning/afternoon/evening/plain ol' hello in passing is not something I consider to be a threat. Why am I supposed to consider it one?

a reply to: signalfire

The only place someone has the right to be "left alone" is in their home. In public, you will have people speak to you, look at you, talk about you. That is their right.

I think Niyah is spot on here: this video was produced with the intention of proving a point that may or may not really exist.

a reply to: Tangerine

i was pretty plain: men are oblivious to social cues.

The world becomes far easier when we try to control ourselves, and not the random strangers on the streets. Me personally? I don't like be heckled, and vehemently avoid places where I would get heckled.

By the same token, I vehemently am against being attacked by a tiger. So I avoid places where tigers are. Because they will attack me, despite any right that I may want to lay claim to (and am unable to defend).

This is like the 3rd or 4th thread on this? Is there any need? Couldn't you add to the others?
You're at least a week late.

a reply to: blupblup


Interesting. "100 cat calls" in the search nets 3 links. Mine.

a reply to: Nyiah

As a female, I'm insulted it's come to that. Being spoken to at all is supposed to be offensive now? Oh hell no.

Me too. And if I don't agree with my sisters? Am I then part of the problem? Feminism is a very bad (and misunderstood) word and movement these days - it's kinda got us coming and going

I think this entire subject is interesting. How many variations on a theme could we possibly come up with? 50 Shades Of Grey tops 100 million in sales - and at the same time, we seem to want a return to superficially straitlaced, nearly Victorian values

I definitely am not here to egg on the true women haters - they will exist with or without my approval. But, I have to wonder if we're really capable of identifying which men are misogynistic, and which men are just men?

Most women have at some point in their lives experienced real harassment - and felt genuinely threatened. Many have been abused, to the point of torture - or killed. Women aren't paid what they're worth, they aren't promoted when they deserve it, and until not so awfully long ago - they were considered to be nothing more than baby-making property. Without the right to vote or do much of anything that wasn't approved of first by either their father or their husband

Meanwhile, we can't get a woman elected president because she is, (as I've heard often enough lately) an over aggressive hag. Dick Cheney is also an overly aggressive hag - but somehow it seems to work for him

Men who genuinely like women are often up front about their attraction to women. Men that hate women will find a way to act on their hate no matter what polite society demands. I'm not sure what this anti-street harassment movement hopes to achieve. Should we start a finishing school for gentlemen? Hand out burqas? Teach our young men - what?

What do we teach them that we're not teaching them now?

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Nyiah

As a female, I'm insulted it's come to that. Being spoken to at all is supposed to be offensive now? Oh hell no.

Me too. And if I don't agree with my sisters? Am I then part of the problem? Feminism is a very bad (and misunderstood) word and movement these days - it's kinda got us coming and going

I think this entire subject is interesting. How many variations on a theme could we possibly come up with? 50 Shades Of Grey tops 100 million in sales - and at the same time, we seem to want a return to superficially straitlaced, nearly Victorian values

I definitely am not here to egg on the true women haters - they will exist with or without my approval. But, I have to wonder if we're really capable of identifying which men are misogynistic, and which men are just men?

Most women have at some point in their lives experienced real harassment - and felt genuinely threatened. Many have been abused, to the point of torture - or killed. Women aren't paid what they're worth, they aren't promoted when they deserve it, and until not so awfully long ago - they were considered to be nothing more than baby-making property. Without the right to vote or do much of anything that wasn't approved of first by either their father or their husband

Meanwhile, we can't get a woman elected president because she is, (as I've heard often enough lately) an over aggressive hag. Dick Cheney is also an overly aggressive hag - but somehow it seems to work for him

Men who genuinely like women are often up front about their attraction to women. Men that hate women will find a way to act on their hate no matter what polite society demands. I'm not sure what this anti-street harassment movement hopes to achieve. Should we start a finishing school for gentlemen? Hand out burqas? Teach our young men - what?

What do we teach them that we're not teaching them now?

We teach them that they're not, by virtue of being male, entitled.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Tangerine

i was pretty plain: men are oblivious to social cues.

The world becomes far easier when we try to control ourselves, and not the random strangers on the streets. Me personally? I don't like be heckled, and vehemently avoid places where I would get heckled.

By the same token, I vehemently am against being attacked by a tiger. So I avoid places where tigers are. Because they will attack me, despite any right that I may want to lay claim to (and am unable to defend).

Women should control themselves? Women should stay indoors unless wearing a burka and accompanied by a male relative? And if they don't, they're fair game? All I can say about the implications of your post is wow.

a reply to: Tangerine

Entitled? To what? Ogling a good looking person & making dorky knuckle-dragger vocalizations? You really need to chill out if that's the bottom line, because women are massive hypocrites. My brothers have been groped in public settings by women laying it on thick, my husband has been groped unapologetically right in front of me, so don't give me any BS about the poor wimenz that need social coddling from the big bad boys & their roaming mitts. It happens to men, too, and women get off scoff-effing-free doing it. My husband's heard "What a nice ass on that one!", "Mmm, you got such a nice butt, honey!" with me right there. Like they think they're paying both of us some kind of compliment? Whatever, still lame-o, but ultimately not as huge an issue as being felt up.

Have you ever paid any attention to a group of roving women out & about in public people watching? They're just as disgusting to listen to as our vilified men are, and the only reason I can think of that makes is socially acceptable by & for women to noticeably do that crap versus men is that feminism has girls convinced that well, if guys did it before, we can do it now while slamming the guys still because hooray double standards. Or that it's now considered "cute". Or both. Whatever it is,it's hypocrisy on a pedestal.

Bottom line is it's still rude for either gender to do, and just mind-numbingly asinine to call examples of manners in that video "harassment". Maybe work on giving manners the paddles across the gender board instead of looking for people to buy the woe-is-me line.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: Tangerine

Entitled? To what? Ogling a good looking person & making dorky knuckle-dragger vocalizations? You really need to chill out if that's the bottom line, because women are massive hypocrites. My brothers have been groped in public settings by women laying it on thick, my husband has been groped unapologetically right in front of me, so don't give me any BS about the poor wimenz that need social coddling from the big bad boys & their roaming mitts. It happens to men, too, and women get off scoff-effing-free doing it. My husband's heard "What a nice ass on that one!", "Mmm, you got such a nice butt, honey!" with me right there. Like they think they're paying both of us some kind of compliment? Whatever, still lame-o, but ultimately not as huge an issue as being felt up.

Have you ever paid any attention to a group of roving women out & about in public people watching? They're just as disgusting to listen to as our vilified men are, and the only reason I can think of that makes is socially acceptable by & for women to noticeably do that crap versus men is that feminism has girls convinced that well, if guys did it before, we can do it now while slamming the guys still because hooray double standards. Or that it's now considered "cute". Or both. Whatever it is,it's hypocrisy on a pedestal.

Bottom line is it's still rude for either gender to do, and just mind-numbingly asinine to call examples of manners in that video "harassment". Maybe work on giving manners the paddles across the gender board instead of looking for people to buy the woe-is-me line.

Male-identified women exist. You're living proof.

a reply to: Tangerine

Does it really need to boil down to zero sum mentalities here? In any interaction between parties, each individual in that party has a role. Each party carries some level of responsibility in the result of that interaction. The world is not nerf coated, and while anyone exerting force on another is solely responsible for that action, any victim of said force would need to avoid those situations in the future.

I avoid situations in which I know confrontations are giong to happen because I am smart enough to understand that my right to safety may not observed by everyone else.

Everyone already knows this, but I am explaining it to you politely. Despite what appears to be a desire to misconstrue to win an internet argument that means nothing. Because my reputation, both here at ATS and in real life, is beyond reproach.

a reply to: Tangerine

why are you so confrontational?

a reply to: Tangerine

We teach them that they're not, by virtue of being male, entitled.

Entitled to what?

I have a problem, if I'm going to be honest - with this idea that life can somehow be sanitized for our protection

On the other hand - women have changed so much about their circumstances by being such a pain in the ass culturally (I mean that in a good way) that both women and men were forced to look at what was acceptable to all and then see it differently. That takes persistence and time

New Zealand model re-creates viral catcalling video, does not get catcalled at all
The issue isn't "boys being boys." It's deep culturally embedded sexism

In an interesting test of the “boys will be boys” hypothesis, the New Zealand Herald decided to re-create the Hollaback video on the streets of Auckland, recruiting a model named Nicola Simpson to star. As in the New York video, Simpson walked around the city for 10 hours behind a hidden camera chronicling her trip. And guess what happened? She received zero catcalls. None. Not one.

Is it cultural? Is it men? Is it all men? Is it American men? Is it the men in NYC? Is there a solution to this problem? Do we all agree that this is a problem? If it is a problem, do we all agree it's a priority? Are men allowed to have an opinion on all this?

Can we even decide, first of all, what it is we're looking at here? Is this rape? Assault? Is it intimidation? Is it impolite? Is it flirtation? Is it annoying? Degrading? Is it possible that it's all these things being lumped together into one category?

I'm asking - seriously - what's the plan? Teaching boys that they aren't entitled - to what? Seems like most boys are raised right, so what do we do about those few that think 'Hey baby! Looking fine...' is friendly? Are we sure that it's not?

Trust me on this Tangerine - I am aware that women still have much work to do if we're going to change our circumstances. There are other places in the world that could really benefit form our attention right now - I wish we would be a little choosier when we pick our battles. I know this is important to you, but just being mad isn't going to fix anything - especially if we focus on things that aren't fixable

Take Action

Check out their site - investigate it thoroughly. They don't have a plan either - not even close. I've been thinking about this a lot for the past few days, this isn't the only thread to deal with this. I've been reading up on this movement for a little while now. It's very interesting, but I'm not sure it's about what it's about - if you know what I mean

originally posted by: Tangerine
Male-identified women exist. You're living proof.

Is that supposed to be a cheap shot because I refuse to give into the "All Women Are Victims, and All Men Are Evil" stereotypes? You're responsible for yourself right down to your own insecurities. If a stranger passing you on the sidewalk saying "Morning ma'am" is just as offensive to you as "NICE RACK!" you have the issues that need fixed, not the rest of us.

a reply to: FlySolo

why are you so confrontational?

Your OP was confrontational

This question you ask - and the way you ask it? In a nutshell - this is it. I don't expect you to understand what I'm trying to say, so let's look at this:

Now what if 25% of those men were GQ and rich? Hell, 2% even? The fine line between unwanted harassment and "flirty" suddenly becomes blurred.

Because women are whores?

Sorry - was that too confrontational?

I might not agree with her exactly on this particular issue, but it's not like we don't have some views in common

It's the consequence to being the opposite sex which chooses who wins in the game of natural selection.

It's a shame you didn't just go with this - because this is closer to what we're really talking about

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Because women are whores? No, and I like confrontational.

It's all about natural selection which is what you seemed to agree with. Money happens to be an intrinsic part of the natural selection process and the more a man has of it, the better. There's no need to spin-doctor it to make it look like a 'male interpreted' thing. BTW, I changed my mind about the GQ bit because the truth is, he can be as ugly as sin just as long as he's "gainfully" secured. Joe Dimaggio - Marilyn Monroe for inst.

And the lines really are blurred depending on whether there's an attraction or not. If the truth for what it is was ever acknowledged between both parties, then there would never be a need to debate. It's only harassment if it's not flirting. Yin/Yang black/white up/down. c'mon don't make me have to go all philosophical here. It's either a yes or a no. Flirting/Harassment.

Just how I view things in life.

a reply to: FlySolo

For someone with misogynist leanings, the lines between flirting and harassment are blurred.

When we discuss any social problem, it is usually distilled down to the prototypical, worst case scenario type situation. I would say that its likely that a large proportion of us have never seen such behavior. Aberrant public behavior requires an environment that tolerates it. It would take a larger population density to find enough folks willing to join the "mob" that allows the behavior. In a small town...out of a group of 5 guys that might find themselves in the same general vicinity, you aren't likely to see more than 1 that is willing to tolerate that behavior. If even that. In NYC...higher population density...more opportunity for acceptance of aberrant behavior.