Public Education vs. Ignorant Parents

Dude, it's like you are quoting something from Glenn Beck.

Everything but my last school experience was public. At no point did anybody try to teach me Islam outside of it's importance in world history, just like other religions.

Remember, religion as taught in the context of history is NOT forbidden in schools. What is forbidden is truly trying to enforce a certain government sanctioned religion in schools and proselytize. If you didn't get the memo, it is Christians in America who are always trying to have Christian prayer in schools, the 10 commandments, etc. It is NOT the other religions.
This is demonstrable.

As to climate change, seem my previous post.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

What they are NOT supposed to teach is paranoia or non-data based ideas or positions, unless we are of course talking about history, philosophy, or perhaps religion classes.

Yes, my thought exactly. Hence NO Islamic Quran, no caliphate based on Allah being the only true God, no hysteria of Global Warming based on humans driving SUVs. I thought religion was forbidden in secular public schools?

Anecdotal evidence isn't anything to scale a hypothesis with.

Second, there is a core assumption that I think is problematic here. You assume that because you or a few friends are intelligent, critical thinking, and self educating parents/people that are dedicated to providing this to your children that hence all parents are ready and desiring to do so. Therefore, you seem to think that your way will provide some kind of realistic alternative for the masses of people upon this Earth.

The assumption is false, in the same way that every communist who thinks that communism will work because they themselves are dedicated is projecting their own reality on to a macro scale.

In reality, without mass education, literacy rates will fall, most people who are born into a random low information and frankly apathetic family will come out actually worse, because they weren't exposed to at least a few teachers outside who taught them other ideas and some semblance of general education.

originally posted by: beezzer
I see a divisive future.

On one side will be the population grown up in a state-dictated-indoctrination educational environment.

On the other side?

People who were raised to question. People who were raised to see the truth, not what the state determines the truth to be.


On one side will be followers, people who were taught to obey. People who were taught that guns are scary. People who were taught that victimhood is okay. People who were taught that fighting back is wrong.

On the other side?

Individuals. Leaders. Risk-takers.

Of course, this is only my opinion. But I have 5 decades of anecdotal evidence to back it up.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
[shave]
Agenda 21 and all of the sustainable development negotiations, which I work with and study, are NOT this nefarious plan. They are ambitious and real plans to change the dangerous trajectory of mankind regarding the environment.
[/shave]

And of course those "plans" are mostly financial scams designed to turn millions of people into beggars and paupers by ways of excess taxation and ultra regulation. Not to mention the carbon credit ponzi schemes.

It's 100% authoritarian.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Lol. Which school is teaching the Quran? Teaching climate change is as radical as teaching evolution. Both are theories widely supported by scientists and dismissed by right wing Christians.

I agree that it seems to be predominantly conservatives and especially the religious right that reject both.

I can understand the religious right rejecting evolution out of it severely violating their beliefs.

What is unacceptable however is them rejecting scientific evidence for clear and present issues that face society that demand action and responsibility. There is absolutely nothing conservative, responsible, nor spiritual about that.
There is nothing in environmental justice or climate change science that violates the Bible really as far as human impact. In fact, the Bible says we are stewards of God's earth, you know, like responsible people taking care of something so it lasts, not abusing the hell out of it. This is one area that on average, the progressives are far more on point and the conservatives in denial, way out in left field.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Lol. Which school is teaching the Quran? Teaching climate change is as radical as teaching evolution. Both are theories widely supported by scientists and dismissed by right wing Christians.

a San Francisco-area school

www.frontpagemag.com...

As it explained in the article I posted.

Do you really need the specific one?

But if that is not enough for you, here is a more specific reference.

Local affiliate KDFW reported that Kevin Wood received a no trespassing order on Tuesday after he objected to a Charles County high school’s assignment teaching the benefits of Islam to students .
Wood, a a former corporal and eight-year combat veteran in the U.S. Marine Corps, could not believe what La Plata High School was teaching his daughter: making her memorize and recite the “Five Pillars of Islam” – the core of Islamic faith, along with a highly-sanitized biography of Islam’s “prophet” Mohammed.

But when the subject matter deviates from history to theology, it crosses the line.

www.islaminourschools.com...

Fine in colleges as an elective, not as an alternative to Christianity in vulnerable grade schoolers.

So I ask you and the fine individual here who is a professional educator, what happened to the ban on religion and the whole "separation from church and state" issue? Could it be that the globalist agenda now is pushing Islam to help promote Sharia law while demoting Christianity to the dungeon? I would really like to know why a decade ago any Christian theology has been banned and the Pledge of Allegiance banned because it offended people in other religions, but now you guys are defending having young students bow and declare Allah is the one true god?????

Please I would like a really rational, logical answer from the seculars here.

a reply to: xuenchen

Seriously how could it be any worse than the current system of no regulation and no taxes on the rich. The nation has already been beggared.

Bringing up ponzi schemes is ridiculous. The people and system you defend is one giant ponzi scheme. If it wasn't how come the rich have been getting richer while the poor get poorer and the middle class joins them.

Weaksauce argument. Try harder

This is what hyper self centered and people without sufficient scientific knowledge about the environmental issues say. This is nothing but your cynical, profit orientated, and exploitative way of denying any need for action.

It is the epitome of irresponsible and selfish thinking.

Meanwhile, the other half of humanity is desperately trying to get action to happen for clear and imminent threats to all of us, our children, and our children's children.

It is unacceptable.

originally posted by: xuenchen

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
[shave]
Agenda 21 and all of the sustainable development negotiations, which I work with and study, are NOT this nefarious plan. They are ambitious and real plans to change the dangerous trajectory of mankind regarding the environment.
[/shave]

And of course those "plans" are mostly financial scams designed to turn millions of people into beggars and paupers by ways of excess taxation and ultra regulation. Not to mention the carbon credit ponzi schemes.

It's 100% authoritarian.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: xuenchen

Seriously how could it be any worse than the current system of no regulation and no taxes on the rich. The nation has already been beggared.

Bringing up ponzi schemes is ridiculous. The people and system you defend is one giant ponzi scheme. If it wasn't how come the rich have been getting richer while the poor get poorer and the middle class joins them.

Weaksauce argument. Try harder

Ou

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You mean that article from a blatant right wing propaganda site. Find something more credible.

Having to know what Islam believes and not teaching students that it is horrible is not "sanitizing" Islam nor providing it as an alternative, it is simply teaching students about other belief systems. This is required for any person to be a truly intelligent and knowledgeable person. Also, it seems that a lot of people like you don't like REAL information to be given to kids because then they might form real views and questions BEFORE they solidify their beliefs, such as simply believing what their parents tell them.

Christianity is already the predominant religion, and forced into people's faces all of the time. But i'm sure you are fine with that.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Lol. Which school is teaching the Quran? Teaching climate change is as radical as teaching evolution. Both are theories widely supported by scientists and dismissed by right wing Christians.

a San Francisco-area school

www.frontpagemag.com...

As it explained in the article I posted.

Do you really need the specific one?

But if that is not enough for you, here is a more specific reference.

Local affiliate KDFW reported that Kevin Wood received a no trespassing order on Tuesday after he objected to a Charles County high school’s assignment teaching the benefits of Islam to students .
Wood, a a former corporal and eight-year combat veteran in the U.S. Marine Corps, could not believe what La Plata High School was teaching his daughter: making her memorize and recite the “Five Pillars of Islam” – the core of Islamic faith, along with a highly-sanitized biography of Islam’s “prophet” Mohammed.

But when the subject matter deviates from history to theology, it crosses the line.

www.islaminourschools.com...

Fine in colleges as an elective, not as an alternative to Christianity in vulnerable grade schoolers.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You mean that article from a blatant right wing propaganda site. Find something more credible.

They also probably think that such websites are "peer reviewed" and credible sources for anti-global warming propaganda.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: xuenchen

Seriously how could it be any worse than the current system of no regulation and no taxes on the rich. The nation has already been beggared.

Bringing up ponzi schemes is ridiculous. The people and system you defend is one giant ponzi scheme. If it wasn't how come the rich have been getting richer while the poor get poorer and the middle class joins them.

Weaksauce argument. Try harder

Exactly, too many uninformed people have been brainwashed by the elite that NEEDED regulations and action to address environmental and climate systems, as well as make such things as economics or business more responsible and less exploitative, are nothing but "socialism" or "nefarious plots to bring in the NWO." It is quite brilliant. Where the people trying to bring justice to this world are painted as the evil ones and the ones who are exploiting everyone are poor oppressed corporations.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

A person is losing an argument who is unable to respond to specific well-informed and evidence-based points with nothing but dismissal.

Everything I put about many of the basic causes of educational problems has a huge amount of evidence and studies behind it.

Second, you say "i have no solutions." You know nothing about my solutions, nor what I have done, nor what I work in. But I'm sure layperson Xuenchen magically is some expert now, and omniscient about "my solutions."

Good job, I'm out, and thanks for playing.

I find it very dissappointing that no attempt was made to address a very important question i had asked before Queztacoatl14 decided to leave the debate.

It was claimed that not having culturally diverse interactions with students from around the world in an academic institution would be "totally insufficient" for a young learner these days.

If someone did not have more education about the rest of the world they would have too small of a sample and a single city to measure things from. It's totally insufficient.

But totally insufficient for what exactly? All these claims are supposedly supported by "evidence", because Quatzacoatl14 has apparently said nothing in this thread not backed up by evidence. Does it include the suggestion that the success or failure of a learner in todays society is dependant on them having relationships with lots of other learners from many culturally diverse backgrounds in an academic instution??? Even if i read a peer reviewed paper that suggest that it was i wouldn't be convinced by it, because its seemingly oblivious to the idea that these interactions would naturally occur outside of academic institutions anyway if migration levels have increased that significantly to claim it has that much importance. If its a reference to foreign learners who simply come overseas to study and then return home, i still dont accept the claims made about the significance of this on learners who live here in the west, as those learners who only come here to study and then return home are not neccessarily going to come bacl here. Im not arguing cultures shouldnt interact, im simply saying its not neccessary to be in an academic institution to experience it. People in institutions like colleges and universities where foreign students study are often busy studying a lot of the time anyway, so the quality of interaction most of the time is probably going to be completely valueless for most learners in the institutions in the long run. If were talking about cliques who make it their duty to befriend foreign students and build strong relationships with them, its still makes a pretty baseless argument because there's no evidence that learners befriending foreign learners from other cultures is in any way valuable to the long term success or failure of learning in an academic institution. And no evidence that home schooling deprives someone of meaningfull relationships with other cultures, or that having meaningfull relationships with other cultures is in any way a significant factor in learning in the first place.

So called "educatores" shouldnt hide behind the franchised ambiguous buzz word "education" either. Its about learning, and we all know thats a life long process.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

In reality, without mass education, literacy rates will fall, most people who are born into a random low information and frankly apathetic family will come out actually worse, because they weren't exposed to at least a few teachers outside who taught them other ideas and some semblance of general education.

There's your problem.

I personally don't care what other parents do or don't do.

It's none of my business.

Fair enough, but you seem to be making claims on a general level, such as your concept about state educated versus home or private educated people.

To make those kinds of claims, naturally other people than just your own family have to be implied yes?

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

In reality, without mass education, literacy rates will fall, most people who are born into a random low information and frankly apathetic family will come out actually worse, because they weren't exposed to at least a few teachers outside who taught them other ideas and some semblance of general education.

There's your problem.

I personally don't care what other parents do or don't do.

It's none of my business.

a reply to: tavi45

Rubbish.

There's gobbs of energy regulations and taxes worldwide.

But yet the intellectuals can't figure out any solutions as usual.

Sour grapes because of failed theories and ideals.

So naturally, blame somebody...anybody.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

www.usnews.com...

I think his point comes down to that if the majority of your life is centered around a small homogenous social circle and community with no attempt to bring other cultures and viewpoints into the equation, you create people who can't consider other perspectives. This causes stagnation both mentally and in reality by extension. Just look at any extremist, whether right or left, Christian or Muslim, black or white, etc etc. Every extremist has one thing in common. They are incapable of mental flexibility or even basic empathy.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
Fair enough, but you seem to be making claims on a general level, such as your concept about state educated versus home or private educated people.

To make those kinds of claims, naturally other people than just your own family have to be implied yes?

I've seen enough, taught enough to recognize the need for home schooling.

a reply to: tavi45

no taxes on the rich.

Maybe you just meant the uber wealthy Elites like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates(who are still using their own money for stuff), and not the ones who run businesses and make $250,000.00 because they clearly pay taxes. The uber wealthy can afford to hire attorneys to find loopholes.
Then of course there's the death tax.... which of course had to be paid on my father's estate in addition to the Capital Gains tax.
No taxes on the rich is pure bunk made up by Democrats to push their class warfare on the unsuspecting masses so they can spread the wealth for socialism.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You aren't rich if you can't get around those laws. You are upper middle class. I know the difference intimately.

There should be class warfare. Everyone vs the billionaires.