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originally posted by: wmd_2008
originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: wmd_2008
That we haven't detected one single signal yet is telling of either they are lying to us or we are primitive as far as detecting. They lie to us about everything else…
Or it's a simple as we have nobody in range yet!
Perhaps we'd be better off not looking for radio signals but something else instead.
originally posted by: bottleslingguy
even Kaku says they're looking at the wrong part of the spectrum and HE'S one of the worst dis-info guys. DeGrasseTyson and Hawking are two more a reply to: intrptr
originally posted by: Jack Jouett
So says a UFO activist confronting SETI astronomer Jill Tarter. Discussion takes place at event promoted by the National Radio Astronomy Observatory headquartered in Charlottesville, Virginia. Located near the National Radio Observatory in Greenbank West Virginia and the National Radio Quiet Zone. Is SETI a secret government operation to hide the truth about UFO contact on Earth?
originally posted by: signalfire
I wonder if they've talked to Richard Dolan? Seems like he's found plenty to indicate long term government knowledge of extraterrestrial presence on Earth, and he's a trained and respected historian.
The sum total of information on this topic seems to be being ignored by SETI.
originally posted by: signalfire
originally posted by: draknoir2
originally posted by: signalfire
I wonder if they've talked to Richard Dolan? Seems like he's found plenty to indicate long term government knowledge of extraterrestrial presence on Earth, and he's a trained and respected historian.
The sum total of information on this topic seems to be being ignored by SETI.
Probably because the investigation of alleged UFO/Alien contact on Earth has nothing to do with what SETI does.
Calling that exchange a "confrontation" is like calling oatmeal spicy.
So the 'Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence' doesn't include anyone who has already gotten here?
They can barely pay their bills. You'd think a super secret organization wouldn't have any issues with finances.
Appendix 7. Further Thoughts on SETI and UFO Investigations
F. LOUANGE
The SETI and UFO problems may or may not be related to each other. As there does not so far exist any proof concerning this question, it seems wise to keep those two problems apart and not to confuse them. The questions raised by the UFO and SETI problems are not at all comparable, and the strategies for their research are drastically different. The SETI problem corresponds to a one-bit theoretical question: does there exist, elsewhere in the universe, any form of intelligence that has reached the technological level of transmitting intelligent electromagnetic signals that humans could detect and identify?
Although this question is undoubtedly exciting and justified by existing probabilistic computations about the existence of planets, the appearance of life, the duration of a civilization, etc., the final answer is theoretically Yes or No. However, only a Yes answer will be final, since a No answer may be revised in view of technical improvements of detection techniques.
The UFO problem arises from the verified existence of a very large and coherent set of testimonies worldwide. Its approach is bound to be in three steps:
Step 1. Try by all means to identify the stimulus that has led to the report: the report may be due to inadequate information, misinterpretation of a familiar phenomenon or device, an unusual astronomical or atmospheric phenomenon, an unusual technological device, or a hoax (perpetrated by the reporter or on the reporter).
Step 2. If Step 1 has not yielded an explanation of the report, try to charac- terize the event that led to the report and compare it with other case de- scriptions.
Step 3. For any case that is strong in testimony and rich in detail, one should try to define a model. In this activity, we are clearly not dealing with a simple question with a Yes /No (one-bit) answer. Different cases require analyses with different levels of complexity.
The SETI and UFO problems also involve different approaches. Scientists may pursue the SETI project and remain in a very familiar environment: the relevant technological area is clearly identified and one may follow a predefined strategy by specifying the frequency search band, the required receiver sensitivity, the intrinsic properties of an intelligent signal, etc.
On the other hand, research on the UFO problem is necessarily complex, multidisciplinary, unpredictable and must be expected to evolve as research progresses. The basic detection is usually carried out by unprepared human beings, and analy- sis may call upon a wide range of disciplines including human perception, psychology, astronomy, image processing, physics, chemistry, etc. Moreover, effective research in this field must be conducted with an open mind.
Although in public opinion the UFO and SETI projects are closely associated, they should be kept clearly separated as far as serious research is concerned. The questions being addressed are quite different in nature: the SETI project aims at a simple YesINo answer to the question of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, whereas research into the UFO project must be pursued with a completely open mind as to the questions that need to be posed and answered.
Moreover, the respective technical strategies have nothing in common: SETI research is carried out primarily within the established framework of radio astronomy, whereas UFO research is necessarily multidisciplinary and innovative.
originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: JadeStar
They can barely pay their bills. You'd think a super secret organization wouldn't have any issues with finances.
Unless of course, the financial strife is a red herring contrivance to make you think exactly that.
It's a standard smoke and mirrors tactic, it's a relatively simple thing to cook the books, which results in...'they can't possibly be part of a secret public relations and handling operation, as they are quite plainly chasing every penny just to survive'...you said it yourself.
So IF the finances are bogus, it's having the desired effect isn't it.
.....the UFO and SETI communities share defining attributes includ- ing a surfeit of putative evidence that remains unidentified, and the lack of a single example that can be unequivocally verified, repeated, understood, or captured. That is, both are subject areas of investigation that totally lack identified objects. Then why is one moving into the mainstream of acceptable science while the other is not?
It may not be generally realized that the several different groups of SETI observers have received and tabulated an appreciable number of URS, or unidentified radio signals, in the course of listening to billions of radio chan- nels for hundreds of thousands of hours, looking in tens of thousands of directions. They measure signals that are noise and signals that range up to many times stronger than can be explained in terms of natural noise. They identify nearly all of the strong signals as coming from radio and TV stations, from military radars and various kinds of communications systems, from satellites and deep space probes launched by various national and international organizations, and from many kinds of equipment that leak electromagnetic energy over broad spectral bands. After very thoughtful and vigorous winnowing, there has been a residual number of strong signals received by every group that are, and will no doubt remain, unidentified. But these are not described and released to the media as something unusual or mysterious. This is because they could not be verified by other observers or by repeat observations at the same frequency and in the same direction in the sky.
(continued.)
The SETI participants include a large fraction of scientifically trained radio astronomers, and they employ complex and expensive equipment that includes the largest antennas and most sensitive electronic and digital systems in the world.
The UFO community is much broader and diverse, and cannot bring to bear the instrumental firepower that is routine in SETI research. In fact, no equipment is involved in most UFO case studies. The nature of UFO phenomena is such that it would be unreasonable to demand repeat observations of the same kind of incident and independent confirmation of events by different observers.
However, the status of UFO studies may be improved if we can find a way to move in a direction where independent confirmation and repeatability could be realized and become routine. Where some level of repeatability exists but explanations are incomplete (e.g., in the Hessdalen project), more investigative resources are clearly required. Open channels of communication between UFO investigators and a broader scientific group may lead to natural explanations of many observations and thereby winnow the numerous reports to a few notable examples to which intense cooperative efforts could be applied.