Communists Are Issued a Death penalty In Ukraine Fascism Welcomed, Poroshenko.

a reply to: MysterX

So you're basing your judgement of the situation on WWII history? Okay we can go there.

Japan is now an imperialistic nation with visions of controlling all of asia, oh we're nazis too.

German is FULL ON nazi, like hardcore.

Soviet Russia is a dirty, dirty commie nation that is ACTIVELY aiding those dirty german nazis, until of course they betray Putin and invade one winter.

See what happens when we base the CURRENT government of a nation on the ideology of WWII?

a reply to: intrptr

The government fled because of the coup. What has transpired since is more meddling in their affairs by the west, EU NATO, USA, et al.

This may also bring to light why he ran...

www.newrepublic.com...

a reply to: tadaman

People will forget that if anyone has a right to staunchly avoid communism its the people who tried it already and weren't pleased with the results.

Post office, public schools and fire departments aren't socialism, erm… "communism"?

Every country has social programs that every one wants, they just recoil at the terminology associated with "dirty commies'.

a reply to: intrptr

Being school boards are elected here in the US and that local state and federal department of educations often debate the best school curriculum to be used I would say no. the same holds true for Fire, Police, Ems....

His comment however pointed out that people who lived under and survived communism have no desire to run back into its embrace being its a failed ideology.

a reply to: intrptr

No we all like things like fire departments. I dont think communism or even socialism can take claim to those institutions. So Communism invented police departments and public schools, or just public works in general? HAHAHA

We all like civilization I agree with you there..LOL I just dont think communism invented society at large...

People who have lived under communism just dont like communism, terminology aside...LOL

a reply to: Xcathdra

His comment however pointed out that people who lived under and survived communism have no desire to run back into its embrace being its a failed ideology.

Do you live in a big city? Thats social engineering on a grand scale. Do you ride "public" Transit like subways? Shop at WalMart, or eat at McDonalds? The distinctions between what we call a Republic and what has been pounded into our brains about "communism" grow dim.

a reply to: intrptr

So communism invented large cities and collective public works sir?

There must have been some cool communists running around in first civilizations like Babylon.

Damn, never knew.

a reply to: tadaman

I think people confuse Collectivism with Communism all too often.

Communism as an ideology, the way we discuss it today, originated with Marx, but even he considered 'Hunter/Gatherer' type civilizations to be communist.

I would disagree. An organic community like that is more of a commune and lacks the totalitarian aspect of present day communism.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I agree,

Communism is an ideology. It cant claim the very aspect of human nature to seek non zero sumness in greater measure by grouping together to increase the return of gains.

I am not "against" communism. I think it fails entirely on its own. I just dont see the point in romanticizing it to the point of absurdity. Saying it is the reason why we have our civilization is a bit much IMO.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Communism as an ideology, the way we discuss it today, originated with Marx…

But practiced by members of the Politburo, the Political Elite at the top that garnered the wealth and power to themselves… just like the Wealthy Elite do in the US today.

The difference being over here we still pretend that we have a Representative Republic.

a reply to: intrptr

The wealthy today do not practice Collectivism.

They have a Monopolistic Oligarchy. It's quite different.

Any of them would slit each other's throat if their actions caused them to loose foothold or money. Even the early incarnations of the USSR/Plitburo were still mainly about moving the country forward collectively.

There was still a nationalistic pride associated with that behavior.

We see none of that today, only greed.

~Tenth

a reply to: tadaman

Saying it is the reason why we have our civilization is a bit much IMO.

Only pointing out that the "ideology" on both sides falls short of intentions. In actual practice, there isn't much difference.

See threads about police state, social welfare, disparity between the wealthy elite and working class.

Communism is socialism, so is our "democracy" nowadays. So was Hitler's Idelaized Utopia, too. See National Socialist Workers German Party (NSADP) under the third reich. Also dispel USSR (Union Of Soviet Socialist "Republics").

a reply to: intrptr

Only pointing out that the "ideology" on both sides falls short of intentions.

I agree. Being a humble realist is better. Logic, balance, and acceptance is key to societies achieving continued existence. Great things on the other hand require for people to believe in something more than just survival.

Look at places that have been remarkably underdeveloped historically. Survival was the main driving force with little use of excess towards development. Extra time and resources can be spent thinking about math and science (what ever) or relaxing or just looking for more food. Thats why other places developed more and consistently through out history.

We are all different I guess.

Have a good one.
Hold it down.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

There was still a nationalistic pride associated with that behavior.

We have that, too. In the media and at school and the ball game. In the former USSR, national pridee was state issued , lol.

Ever read Soljenitsen? Gulag Archipelago is telling about National Pride It was on display just like it is here. For the camera. Because it is required of us. Hate to say that, some people will be incensed.

George Carlin said (paraphrased), "Flags are symbols and I leave symbols to the symbol minded.

We see none of that today, only greed.

Trying to imagine the difference.

a reply to: tadaman

Great things on the other hand require for people to believe in something more than just survival.

How about we each try to treat others with as much respect as we can? Thats the only requirement as I see it.

That, limited government and free trade with no entangling alliances.

OP - It seems to me that there were numerous candidates vying for positions in the recent elections, from multiple parties - not all of which get along. Ukraine is more democratically aligned than it ever has been.

If you want fascists - check out Putin, and the people behind him.

As for the Communist Party being outlawed, that probably owes to members of that party encouraging illegal activities. Besides that, all parties have a minimum threshold to meet to make it into RADA, and lately, Ukraine's Communist Party has had difficulties doing that.

Like every country, Ukraine has its share of nationalists - which are not necessarily synonymous with nazis or fascists, though there are some of those, too - just like there are in Russia, Germany, the United States, and everywhere else. Some nationalists are merely populists.

But, accusing Ukraine of becoming fascist is bunk, Ukraine right now is arguably more like America than America has been in many years - improving despite serious challenges.

They may not have communists in the parliament anymore, but they sure do have neo-nazis! Hmmm, just not sure which is worse...

a reply to: Sparkymedic

They may not have communists in the parliament anymore, but they sure do have neo-nazis! Hmmm, just not sure which is worse...

So you think because one or two individuals that have the view of nationalism and are so called Nazi's that the whole of the Ukraine government have that same view?

No they don't, just as when they had communists in the government it doesn't make the whole of the government communists.

Amazing how people can't seem to discern the difference...especially the OP.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Its ok... Using their base standard the Russian government is made up of all Nazi's as well. The Russian government now has a lot more than what Ukraine does after this election cycle.

originally posted by: USXpat
OP - It seems to me that there were numerous candidates vying for positions in the recent elections, from multiple parties - not all of which get along. Ukraine is more democratically aligned than it ever has been.

If you want fascists - check out Putin, and the people behind him.

As for the Communist Party being outlawed, that probably owes to members of that party encouraging illegal activities. Besides that, all parties have a minimum threshold to meet to make it into RADA, and lately, Ukraine's Communist Party has had difficulties doing that.

Like every country, Ukraine has its share of nationalists - which are not necessarily synonymous with nazis or fascists, though there are some of those, too - just like there are in Russia, Germany, the United States, and everywhere else. Some nationalists are merely populists.

But, accusing Ukraine of becoming fascist is bunk, Ukraine right now is arguably more like America than America has been in many years - improving despite serious challenges.

You can't be serious. You really think the US is on the up-swing, despite some "challenges"? Really?

Ukraine might be doing much better than ever after fully abolishing communism. But I'm not sure the US can share the same circle with them.

Take this very recent post for example.

public execution is totally fine in the US