The Disturbing True Story of the Pied Piper of Hamelin -

a reply to: Cinrad

The title of the thread calls this the "disturbing" true story of the pied piper.
The piper is portrayed as an evil entity "hired" to put the rats on a "wrong" way track out of town.

Your CD analogy reminds me of the South African comedy film "The Gods Must Be Crazy".

A CD as analyzed by an engineer is just a storage device that uses a binary encoding scheme the reader sees no color.

A sparkling CD in the sun, a killing pool of water?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: 727Sky

Another thing that occurs to me is that there might have been Ergot poisoning (Ergotism/St. Anthony's Fire) from bread served at the feast in observation of John and Paul Day. .

There's a 1998 novel that runs with this idea:

What Happened in Hamelin

Pretty good as I remember (it was a while ago).

How about the piper was a citizen of Aghartha, and the mountain contains an opening into the inner earth...

Does the story really say that the pipers clothes are multi-coloured?
An alternative interpretation is that a pied piper is a piper of many colours. Maybe the piper was not human, but reptllian, and it's scales reflected multiple colours. That makes sense if you believe reptilians inhabit subterranean caverns. However, they tend to just abduct people, and this one only did so because he was cheated out of his gold. Do reptilians like gold?

I've never really heard much about the details of this story to be honest, although I had heard of it. It seems that the term "pied" referred to the many colors of his clothing. Wiki states that the rats were added to the story in 1559. So it seems that the window was documenting an actual event, and that town records started at the same time. Then there is the claim that it had been 100 years since the children left. So this is most likely a real mystery to us today, although it probably wasn't such a big mystery at the time. Although it is odd to not have something describing what actually occurred if they knew what had happened, but sparse records could be the reason. Obviously it is unlikely they were led away by music. The record stated that the children "left," not that they were sold or stolen. I don't know if that is an error in the translation, or what, but it would suggest that either themselves or their parents made some sort of choice. I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have been sold, but it is something to look in to.

Reading further on Wikipedia it seems the most plausible explanation is that of the "lokators," who were brightly-dressed, explaining that aspect of the story, and who was basically "a medieval sub-contractor, who was responsible to a territorial lord or landlord for the clearing, survey and apportionment of land that was to be settled." So it seems they were recruiting people to settle the lands of their masters, and the claim that they were "silver-tongued" implies that they used coercion of some form. So they likely went East, settling those areas. But even if all the children had gone, it is likely that it was not just children, although I'm sure if they were to be used as workers and whatnot that children were more "pliable," and thus were probably wanted as a future investment of sorts. Obviously there are other explanations, but this seems relatively plausible to me from the little reading I just performed.

a reply to: 727Sky

Most of these stories are based on some kind of truth, and many are used for pretty much the same reasons mothers make up stories and tell them to there kids about not going in the wood alone, or taking candy from strangers. I never really bothered with these type of things or stories or the fairy tale versions of them. Its another see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil thing, and there are plenty of those around from all cultures all around the world. Its basically creating a tale around another tale to obscure the real details, no different then the political mud fest we see today when somebody has been caught doing something which is frowned upon. So its anybody's guess is not only as good as anybody else, but its also likely just as correct.

a reply to: sidhedarkness
lol. Yes, but he is also a very rich and successful idiot with a net worth of $150 Million, who himself and his offsprings may be outliving all of us, and our kids by far. Plenty of those around tho, even those with who have the same pet peeves. The story may just be another tale of the same type of thing from way back then. And probably got hushed hushed and turned into nonsense about dancing rats, and a guy with a flute or whatever, because of bad publicity the town was getting. You never know stranger things have happened.

originally posted by: Whateva69
There is a tone that only children can hear and there are tones only rodents can hear.
is it possible that the pied piper had knowledge of this.

Electronic pest control

Google Search: tone only children can hear

love and harmony
Whateva

Lol that tone was so sharp it nearly split my head apart using headphones.

32 and still a child

Or a rat.

I'm thinking the latter since I know I'm not a child.

a reply to: 727Sky

The bible gives Joseph a multi coloured coat - could they both reference the same thing?

The Piper rid the town of rats - could that mean The Plague? He cured The Plague?

It says he took the children because he wasn't paid. What was his payment supposed to be? Was in monetary, or something else?

Might the children have been what he originally wanted and were promised to him as payment out of a Plague ridden town's desperation. When the time came the townspeople said no, so he took them anyway.

It just seems an odd punishment for someone to dish out who was after payment. Unless he sold the children into slavery, he still received no payment. For someone to do something so extreme in anger over not being paid that person must really want what's owed to them. Those kind of people don't settle for just punishment, they want their money.

Such a mercenary would've used the children as ransom, rather than just disappearing with them. Revenge has no financial reward and thus no interest to a mercenary (accept for ensuring future clients don't renaig on payment because of this reputation, but he's never heard of again, so i doubt that's the intent here).

All that remains is that he sold them into slavery, or they were the promised payment from the start.

Put that together with Plague curing (his magic pipe) and mountain caverns opening and it's hard not to imagine there's a higher intelligence at work here. The question is what would a higher intelligence want with the children.

Maybe it's a little lame, but for me it does conjure the image of all the 'taken' people returning from a cavernous door (in a giant spaceship) at the end of Close Encounters.

originally posted by: Whateva69
There is a tone that only children can hear and there are tones only rodents can hear.
is it possible that the pied piper had knowledge of this.

Electronic pest control

Google Search: tone only children can hear

love and harmony
Whateva

Well i'm mid-40s and i hear it fine (though it's a little sharp on the ear).

Ironically i'm the guy who can never discern what friends are saying above the din of a crowded bar.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: 727Sky

The most relevant item seems to be the stained glass window from the Church of Hamelin, created circa 1300. This would have been commemorating the event to people who actually lived at the time. The text was simply:

In the year 1284, on the day of John and Paul, it was the 26th of June, came a colorful Piper to Hamelin and led 130 children away.

The reconstruction of the window, created from historical descriptions, features a piper and children dressed in white. It bears mention that the John and Paul referenced are not the apostles but Catholic saints who were martyred in Rome in the 4th century.

Next there is the first entry of the town chronicles in 1384 that says, "It is 100 years since our children left"

60-70 years later comes the Lueneburg manuscript:

In the year of 1284, on the day of Saints John and Paul
on June 26
By a piper, clothed in many kinds of colours,
130 children born in Hamelin were seduced,
and lost at the place of execution near the koppen.

From the Hamln (Hamelin) website:

Alsatian nobleman Augustin von Mörsperg travelled to Hamelin in 1592 because he had heard about the strange tale and wanted to find out more.

To me it sounds like whatever happened was mysterious and not at all like 130 people emigrating from the town. We've got music, multicolored clothing (or something else?) and 130 children leaving the village. The first thing that occurs to me is some sort of mass hysteria that culminated with the children disappearing into the forest. These sorts of things can take root with children — look at the recent Slender Man related news stories involving children.

Also consider the various outbreaks of dancing mania dating back to at least the 14th century in Germany and similar behavior in medieval Italy such as Tarantism. Outbreaks of Tarantism had a correlation with the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul, which occurs on June 29th.

Utterly fascinating stuff! thanks for your research/knowledge!

Hi 727sky
Most people dont realise that the fairytales some of us grew up with are based in reality, and many are aligorical tales about canabalism.
At the turn of the 13th-14th centuries northern Europe experienced a severe climate shift. After centuries of mild warm weather, so warm that England had a wine industry, the weather got cold and wet. Germany and the low countries saw catastrophic flooding that killed hundreds of thousands of people each year, The crops failed every year from 1296-1306ish and starvation was rampant, to the point canabalism became common place in the more isolated communitys.
It was not uncommon for families to sell children, who were likely killed and eaten.
Little Red Ridinghood, Hanztel and Gretel are stories from such times.
One must also remember that some of the more remote mountain districts in Germany, were still pagan.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
Hi 727sky
Most people dont realise that the fairytales some of us grew up with are based in reality, and many are aligorical tales about canabalism.
At the turn of the 13th-14th centuries northern Europe experienced a severe climate shift. After centuries of mild warm weather, so warm that England had a wine industry, the weather got cold and wet. Germany and the low countries saw catastrophic flooding that killed hundreds of thousands of people each year, The crops failed every year from 1296-1306ish and starvation was rampant, to the point canabalism became common place in the more isolated communitys.
It was not uncommon for families to sell children, who were likely killed and eaten.
Little Red Ridinghood, Hanztel and Gretel are stories from such times.

One must also remember that some of the more remote mountain districts in Germany, were still pagan.

How does paganism play into this? It's a story that's not backed by an iota of real evidence. Let's not forget that Bible stories for which there is also not an iota of evidence are depicted in church windows, too. They should not be taken literally. This could refer to an epidemic and the pied piper might be a stranger who brought (or was thought to have brought) the epidemic to the community. The notion that someone literally abducted such a large number of children seems fanciful at best.

a reply to: McGinty

Interesting variation you have there. Maybe he was paid to take the children so they wouldn't get the Plague. First he took the rats who brought the plague then saved the children. Just another twist on your take.

a reply to: Tangerine
I wasn't referimg to this story in particular, just to the period and region where many of these stories have their origins. A period of intense climatic change for nw Europe, the grain crops failed year after year, what did grow was spoiled by ergot, when it got rained on and never dried out. This cool period also ushered in the re-emergence of the plague.
During these times of extreme deprivation, the pagan peoples, in the remote places, went back to the old practices, human sacrifice in some cases , to appease the gods
As to this story, I'm of the opinion that the children were sold into slavery (old practices), by their parents in order to survive. By the time the cathedral was built and windows inlaid, the story had been changed to assuage the guilt of the community.
There is a very good book, about 20 years old, that deals with the origination of many of the fairytales of northern Europe.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Tangerine
I wasn't referimg to this story in particular, just to the period and region where many of these stories have their origins. A period of intense climatic change for nw Europe, the grain crops failed year after year, what did grow was spoiled by ergot, when it got rained on and never dried out. This cool period also ushered in the re-emergence of the plague.
During these times of extreme deprivation, the pagan peoples, in the remote places, went back to the old practices, human sacrifice in some cases , to appease the gods
As to this story, I'm of the opinion that the children were sold into slavery (old practices), by their parents in order to survive. By the time the cathedral was built and windows inlaid, the story had been changed to assuage the guilt of the community.
There is a very good book, about 20 years old, that deals with the origination of many of the fairytales of northern Europe.

The sold into slavery theory is a possibility, as is ergot poisoning (although that would have killed adults as well) or an epidemic. It would have to be a very large village to have 130 children and if only three children remained, how did the population continue to reproduce? Let's not forget that the Old Testament is also full of sacrifices and slavery. Sounds like an interesting book but, in this case, all is speculation.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
a reply to: Cinrad

The title of the thread calls this the "disturbing" true story of the pied piper.

Many thread titles should be taken with a grain of salt, including this one.

a reply to: punkinworks10
You never know, so it could be. And stuff like that is not new either, here is a photo of a family who put there 4 children up for sale, I even read an article on this picture some days ago, supposedly they the kids in the photo got together latter in life and they each had there sad tale to tell.
Link
So ya it does happen, even as far back as 66 years ago. The industrial age was anything but industrial for a majority of people other then the barons and industry leader, its why they worked so hard to break down the towns and tribe protector mentality's back then, it basically equaled more workers for cheaper pay who would be wiling to do anything because they had no choice, which equaled more $$$ and power for them. And as you look around today, you can see that it worked spectacularly, and that really was the whole idea behind industrial cities.

So ya even if you go back farther in history when the weather itself really does a complete u-turn on you and your town or village, some things may be different but some things always stay the same so cannibalism or sold into slavery would not be off the list. But really so many things could be the real reasons of why all those kids disappeared that its anybody's guess by now.

But it is true ! I remember hearing it 4-5 times a day when growing up and anytime I go back home. It's told on loudspeakers several times a day to warn people.

Really it's big in Frankenmuth Michigan

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: galadofwarthethird
By selling off the youngest children, those to young to be effective labor, the family accomplishes two things. One, fewer mouths to feed and an influx of capitol, afterall young children are easy to replace as compared to older work experienced children.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: galadofwarthethird
By selling off the youngest children, those to young to be effective labor, the family accomplishes two things. One, fewer mouths to feed and an influx of capitol, afterall young children are easy to replace as compared to older work experienced children.

.......and the younger ones are more tender and tasty, muhahahaha......