Security Footage Of Synagogue Collapse & 'Strange Airplane' Allegedly Behind It

a reply to: Astyanax

I suppose that's what all those posters were thinking. It's completely untrue, of course.

I know. I spent a good deal of time in the 911 forum trying to convince them how untrue.

Thats why I liked your post.

a reply to: intrptr

¡Ay! ¡Ay! ¡Caramba!

Is it safe even to whisper those fatal words?

a reply to: RationalDespair

its only songoku ans his kids playing with invisible kamehameha .....

Ok so I deff watched the footage a few times. What's up with the thin black line behind the plane on every approach but once it reaches the building or just before the black line stops. Its really skinny and hard to see. Also the building fell straight down just like the wtc's including the wtc that was reported to fall while still standing in the background of the news reporters. This building didn't collapse on its own. Whether the plane had something to do with it we will never know but it looked very controlled. Usually if a building collapses without help part is left standing or it collapses inward or lopsided not pretty much all at the same time. The time diff between the left and right is about the same amount of time it would take for the electrical signal to travel through the demolition wires. But what do I know I'm just some guy.

To me it seems like a cult-leader inventing a conspiracy as a form of damage control.
There was probably some form of bribery going on to add extra storeys to the building without proper inspections, which may bring criminal charges and prove the cult negligent of safety issues.

Apparently the Synagogue, Church of All Nations (SCOAN) has manipulated footage before to stage healings, and non-cult rescue teams claimed they were kept away from the site.
Even the South Africa humanitarian organization Gift of the Givers, who have specialized equipment to locate people under rubble, were allegedly threatened.

The only conspiracy I see is of a cult leader called TB Joshua, who was allowed to amass an enormous fortune while claiming to cure HIV and TB (which led to many deaths, possibly thousands) and abusing people.
It's high time justice caught up with this fraud, no matter how many gullible, influential people he impressed.
I'm still looking at some YouTube material which exposed his operations, and I'm shocked.
I knew he was a fake healer, since Special Assignment exposed him a few years back on SA television, but the testimonies of former members puts him in the same class of sociopathic cult-leaders as Jim Jones.
Former members of his staff reported sexual abuse, mind control, sleep deprivation, beatings, threats, humiliation, bribery and staged miracles.
The clip on YouTube "TB Joshua's Secrets Revealed" is shocking.

I don't think anything that comes from this man or his organization (or mind-controlled devotees) is to be believed.

There are many fake healers, but at worst they simply take money and gifts from people.
However, what goes on in SCOAN's inner circle is seriously dangerous, yet he had a loyal following in South Africa, and unlike similar black pastors he also appealed to some whites (although he increasingly disappeared from the white Christian media, like "Joy" magazine, possibly because some of his practices became too alien for the Christian right, although they also didn't split their readership by specifically exposing him, at least according to my knowledge).
A lot of Christian media supported him at some time or other.
This is the same media that wants to preach how wider society should be run - yikes!
Many thought he was just another reborn Christian pastor, and weren't informed of anything negative at all.

About two weeks ago a friend of mine's mother wanted to go to Nigeria on a pilgrimage to SCOAN, and I mentioned that this guy was a fraud (which didn't go down too well).
I really hope she didn't go yet (I didn't want to ask immediately).

I suppose that if people insist on following thugs just because they claim to be "Christian" one cannot stop them.
The people who believe this sort of thing are probably believing the whole "mysterious airplane" conspiracy nonsense, and in their alternate universe the "Prophet" will always be the good and persecuted guy, no matter that he never gave a darn about the well-being of his followers.
Even the media is often still giving him the benefit of the doubt (even some local politicians were impressed by his shenanigans), and only mention short references to his questionable past performances.
There's a serious lack of critical thinking skills in South Africa and beyond, and unfortunately TB Joshua and people like him will continue to flourish and harm people.

PS. There's a lot of material online to wade through and constant updates on the scope of the tragedy.
For more on TB Joshua and his "Synagogue": tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com...
Gift of the Givers rescue workers chased from site (suggesting to me that there's a wider local cover-up and conspiracy to protect corrupt officials in Nigeria, the "Prophet" and his pilgrimage industry): www.iol.co.za...-1dh71V
TB Joshua's Secrets Exposed (interestingly much of the critique came from other Christians, and atheist critics have ignored this cult for too long in favor of exposing general techniques used by faith healers to con people. It's high time Africa had its own rationalist organizations to prioritize the wort cases of abuse): www.youtube.com...
Former SCOAN building disasters in Nigeria (admitted by the cult, but seen as the work of the devil): www.iol.co.za...

I'll stop here before the post become too long, but there's clearly a conspiracy involved, and this case affects many South African communities. It's much wider than the plane and the cult's claims. TB Joshua also has international churches and followers.
Thanks to the OP for making a thread on this, because there's something conspiratorial going on in how the entire rescue operation was dealt with.
In this case it probably doesn't involve Boko Haram, even if powerful forces may try to twist it that way.
If they were involved it will have to be painstakingly proven.
Even if no plane was involved it certainly has the same ramifications to us as a plane crash or natural disaster in the West.
It's an interesting case of how conspiracy theory can be used by people who are running their own in-group conspiracies.

a reply to: 2ndthought

Sure a single plane could fly over a building for some reason or other over and over. But generally they dont, if there is an airport nearby then planes dont and wont be going in circles like that unless they cant land, in fact in most airports the longer a plane sits on the ground, and is not in the air the more money it costs them, and the longer they go in circles waiting to land the more money it costs them, in fact if there is any inactivity from the norm it costs them money. I dont even see them practicing in any public airport, after all there businesses and it did look like routine landings and taking off from some runway it does even look like its likely passenger planes 747s and airbusses. If it was some military drill and a military plane, sure why not, it could happen, but it could also not happen, lets just say that that tiny speck on the video did not look like there were the blue angels doing routine stunts. But who know eh, trying to judge anything from what may be fractions of a random video is just stupid and pointless.

This whole thing is meaningless that video shows absolutely nothing to say for certain on anything concrete. And really for all we know after the vid cut, there could be the same routine traffic over the site were that building used to be. And as for the building falling down like that. I suppose it happens, maybe whoever demolished it just forgot to inform the people there in of the day they were going to do it...# happens you know. Or maybe they really did use super glue and duct tape in its construction and addition of extra floors. In the end I dont think it matters, and we here on this random thread have likely put more thought into it then every single person in that town who was walking by and seen that building stand for years suddenly just fall, no doubt they thought about it a whole 5 minutes even and were promptly waiting to be informed on why it happened on the nightly news, because you know closure is important when stuff like that happens. I am quite sure everybody got on with there lives, and returned to there daily scheduled programing. Its either a case of everybody is lying including that video with its abrupt end to the convenient mysterious plane, or it just does not matter. No more then a leaf falling in the forest matters.

a reply to: halfoldman

Oh man now I am starting to think that it really was son goku practicing his Kamehameha skills which brought that building down. The things and strange cults people get into and are willing to perpetrate to all kinds of nutty ends. So many conspiracies all over a 2 minute and 22 seconds video, which says absolutely nothing but that somehow a strange planes may fly over buildings. Which may or may not have anything to do with anything at all.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

That was an awfully long post simply to 'debunk' my suppositions. You do know the meaning of the word 'supposition', right?

That's about all we're doing here. Supposing how this happened.

As for planes going around in circles. Get out of your house every once and awhile. Military planes do it all the time. On base, and at civilian airports. Air National Guard units many times are based out of local, even large, civilian airports. Do I think that is what was happening in the video? In Lagos, Nigeria? Doubtful. I only mentioned it in passing.

But hey, you sure did take me to school...

Interestingly the main issue on the TB Joshua Watch website before the building collapse (scrolling down to 30 August 2014) was Ebola, and regional concerns and warnings about how SCOAN dealt with the public health crisis (anointed water not only "cures" HIV/AIDS, but also Ebola).
tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com...

Such health warnings were certainly not given to prospective pilgrims here in South Africa.

One hopes this wasn't quarantine via implosion.
Probably not, but it could be another conspiracy angle, because from a medical point of view mixing close quarters with a dismissal of modern medicine in a place where international followers congregate sounds rather risky.

Whatever the case, the activities of SCOAN, which involved an inner circle, as well as potentially thousands (perhaps millions) of followers who simply saw a good Christian healer in the "Prophet" was worthy of conspiracy discussions and public health issues from many angles, even before the building collapsed.

I have been checking in on SCOAN and Emmanuel TV every now and then and I always leave with more questions then when I started. Don't get me wrong I like TB Joshua and the SCOAN movement but something does seem out of place with the whole thing..

As for the plane, it seems to get closer to the building each time but the actual collapse seems to be seperate..
Maybe the plane was watching the building in anticipation for the demolition to report back.

Surely these days you can find out what aircraft was at that specific point and that specific time, to at least get an understanding of who the plane belonged to

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: intrptr

¡Ay! ¡Ay! ¡Caramba!

Is it safe even to whisper those fatal words?

Not fatal. Denying Ignorance. I would link some of my posts about demolition, nano thermite, fires and temperature, progressive collapse, ad infinitum, but I don't keep track. its all there somewhere.

Well the building was definitely demolished professionally. Was the aircraft running reconnaissance to ensure a particular target was present? I'd wait and see if anyone significant was bumped off..

..welcome to Nigeria.

watch the void.

OK, rationally I think the mysterious plane bit is all an attempted cover-up, deflection and damage control by an increasingly maligned sect within an increasingly bizarre, wider fundamentalist Christian stream (although some practices of SCOAN are also close to traditional animism, but many such "charismatic" groups in Africa are actually cultural hybrids).

But one must imagine that they have services with thousands of regional members and international pilgrims.
People from countries so far uninfected with Ebola are mixing with sect members from highly infected places, like Sierra Leone.
Even worse, they take their killer beliefs on modern medicine with them to their home countries when the marathon church service is over, where they would avoid medical detection and infect others.

The conspiracy theorist part of me is thinking there was an outbreak detected, either by the sect, some government official or a global body.
tbjoshuawatch.wordpress.com...

That would remind me a bit of the movie Quarantine, where an entire building is sealed off by the CDC to prevent a Zombie virus from breaking out. www.imdb.com...

The only difference is that here they exploded the building, either with the help and/or knowledge of top-level sect members (who know their anointed "healing water" is all a con in any case), or without it.
The area around the disaster zone is also blocked off, to make sure the survivors are "clean".

Sounds like a horror movie that meets conspiracy theory.
I just know somebody will think along those lines, so it may as well be me.
But hey, it's just a theory.

Either way, this cult and people who did not expose them (like Joy Magazine, Angus Buchan and fellow pastors in South Africa) created an irresponsible attitude towards public health, and only religious minority voices highlighted the dangers of the sect.

There should have been major warnings not to go to Nigeria for the mass congregations of TB Joshua by anyone who thinks that "anointed water" doesn't treat, cure or prevent HIV/AIDS, TB and Ebola.
Those teachings of the cult were well known in Christian circles.
Even the buildings should have been inspected by SA Christian representatives, because they knew there's somebody in every extended family or evangelical church who follows TB Joshua.
Fat chance, they still push a "rehabilitation center" in SA where somebody was found dead hanging in chains in a punishment block, so they're not too picky about practicalities.
www.iol.co.za...

I guess those "big Christians" were watching Sex In The City instead of cutting edge journalism, like Special Assignment, when T.B. Joshua was first exposed.
www.journeyman.tv...

It raises serious concerns on their myopia that is limited to abortion, Islam, homosexual rights, feminism, evolution and cannabis decriminalization (all of which makes reading the South African Joy Magazine a rather predictable and profoundly unjoyful experience).
Their stance on infectious diseases and "faith healing" is unclear and confusing (apart from ordering a good dose of life-long marriage and fidelity for HIV), and the pastors they endorse seem to be selected on ideological and marketing grounds.
Even if they disagree with each other, it's an old boys' club where they scratch backs rather than rock the boat.
Otherwise they don't really care where their adherents end up, as long as it parrots some of their ideology, and it's soundly patriarchal and against gay rights.

I guess the whole evangelical Christian industry is taking a knock through this, and will have to do some form of damage control.
Not that I want to attack all Christians.
Some of them have done great work in exposing SCOAN and other "false prophets", but there's definitely some very uncomfortable characters who are leaders in the hegemonic mainstream.

That "plane" looks an awful lot like a disc..

I've seen aircraft doing flight paths like that over Edinburgh and Aberdeen. They were taking aerial photographs of the area and so had to cover every single point of the ground or coast.

That plane could have been doing something similar. But what if it were trying to detonate unexploded ordinance by remote control? Imagine if you just left stockpiles of "dodgy munitions" for terrorist groups to just happen to find. They'd take the stuff back to their munition dumps like termites taking food back to their nest. Then all the armed forces would have to do is fly over and send the detonation signal

a reply to: 2ndthought

I do not understand what your trying to say. And yes I do live by an airport, and have seen all kinds of planes even military planes, come and go at all times of the day and night, and they rarely go in circles for fun or even for training. Generally they have a schedule to keep and well you know there practically burning money while in the sky. Like I said the video says nothing, and even if it was some conspiracy or whatever, it really does not matter.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I've driven truck around the country off and on for the past 10 years. Again, I've seen touch and go landings quite often.

en.wikipedia.org...

As for the video. Again ... Suppositions. It's what this website is all about.

You can clearly see the wings of a bird flapping as I said on page 1. Planes wings do not flap!!

a reply to: 2ndthought

Why do you keep telling me this? Like I said, it does not matter, buildings fall all the time and people die all the time, strange planes fly or dont fly by overhead all the time, some years ago there was one about some 3 towers here daily. And yet none of it matters or will matter. That is all. Its just like that video a random thing which will be lost in the tides of time, no more meaningful then the grass growing or the paint drying.