Jesus died for the angel's too.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth for the angels to inhabit. Then the Earth became desolate and void because of the revolt of Heleill (Satan) and his faction of angels. We know this because Jeremiah saw in a vision, a time on Earth before man, when cities existed.

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

Then, after an undisclosed period of time, the Spirit of God restored the Earth for man, the animals, and vegetation. This restoration took 6 days, then God rested (Gen ch1).

Just as Adam introduced the sin nature into mankind, Heleill ben Shahhar (Satan) introduced sin into angelic kind (Isaiah 14:12).

Most Christians understand that Jesus came to pay the penalty for man's sins, when He died on the cross, but could He have also paid for the sins of Satan and the angels as well? I think YES.

Here is why:

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

We see above, that Jesus temporarily made Himself lower than the angels, going as far as taking on the form of man to pay for the sins of man. Many see this two passages as saying that Jesus became a man only to die for mankind. What if, by becoming the lowest form of life that was plagued by sin, Jesus was able to pay for the sins of man and up? That would be man, nephilim, and angels. I have been playing with this idea for some time now, but just recently, a new supporting passage was brought to my attention.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Here we see that Jesus' sacrifice was unlike the Levitical sacrifice in the sense, that Jesus' sacrifice is permanent. Otherwise, Jesus would've had to suffer regularly from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

Think about that. If the world was created for the angels, long before man even existed, why would Jesus have to pay from the foundation of the world? Maybe because when Satan sinned, all the angels became sinners (just like man), and those who refused to accept Jesus' payment for sins remained the fallen angels that we know of today.

What does this mean? Satan and the fallen angels can still repent, but they choose not to. Satan is not backed in a corner, he chooses to oppose God, even though God is willing to forgive him.

This speaks volumes about Satan's thought process.

What do you guys think?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Very interesting thought process there. I had never considered that the very first passage: "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth..... and the Earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep" left wide open the possibility of a whole slew of events in the middle of it.

Also, besides your quote "from the foundation of the world' to support your idea, the very next part " ...but now once at the consummation of the ages" speaks to a time other than the Age of Man.

a reply to: new_here

Thank you, Im glad you enjoyed it. My pastor taught the "6 Day restoration". After searching online, I found others who call it the "gap theory". It makes me wonder if angels in habited other planets as well. They must be there for a reason.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: new_here

Thank you, Im glad you enjoyed it. My pastor taught the "6 Day restoration". After searching online, I found others who call it the "gap theory". It makes me wonder if angels in habited other planets as well. They must be there for a reason.

Maybe your theory also explains the mystery of the pyramids, Easter Island, and other ancient sites of incredible skill. The angels did it? When God cleared the Earth, perhaps it was just the living things?

a reply to: new_here

Its definately a possibility. Check out Isaiah 19:19. Some people think its refering to the center Giza pyramid. I lean that way as well.

Mike Wiley's book 'The Salvation of Angels' appears to agree with you as well:

"the salvation of angels is an intrinsic part of God's redemptive plan"

a reply to: Murgatroid

This makes me wonder if the angels have or had a ressurection? The more answers I get, the more questions arise.

Thanks, I'll definately put that book on my reading list.

I have always been curious of why man was told to "Go forth and REplenish the Earth." I always figured that something can not be replenished without having been plentiful at an earlier time.

I could never get a satisfactory answer to my queries about this, for some reason.

Thanks for giving me something to think about.

S & F

Very interesting topic. There does seem to be a lot more to the Biblical account than first meets the eye.

As far as Egypt and the pyramids go, my theory is they were part of the 'Old world order' run by the Nephilim.
The reasons being, pyramids all over the world (currently the symbol for the NWO/Illuminati) also elongated skulls found at these sites around the world (the plates in the skulls are not typical human). Notice the Egyptian Pharoes head wear, covering what could be elongated skulls? Why do we have tribes copying these creatures. Were they the Nephilim who had created the Old world order, and we currently see the New world order taking shape, in its image. Same symbolism, everything.

That is just my theory and probably far from truth.

Angels own a too? What an odd species that must be.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

It is interesting just how much like Hell Venus really is, Heleill Ben Shahaar shining son of the dawn or as we know it Lucifer, could the Lord have destroyed Venus in his wrath, I know that statement is not very scientific or in line with religious ideology but what if.

Venus is in the approximate orbit the Earth may be in at about 3.5 to 4.5 billion years as the sun swell's up into a red giant, Mercury is about in the Orbit that Venus will be in as the Gas of the sun make's it spiral down slowing it in it's orbit, Mercury is a metal ball approximately the same size as the core's of Venus and Earth with the outer shell burned off and very much like it may then appear but slightly cooler as the sun is not expanding yet.

Venus has two continent's and large ocean basins, the sun never shines as the blanket of cloud hide's it, the temperature is so high that lead would form puddles of liquid on it's surface and it snow's a rare metal that form's metal snow on it's mountains before evaporating as it moves down the mountain.

It rains all the time and lighting is constant on venuse but that rain is concentrated sulphuric acid that never reaches the ground evaporating due to the high temperature.

The day's and night's are nearly six month's long and if you could see the sunrise and set it would rise in the west and set in the east (out of all the planet's in the solar system it is unique in this), Venus is slightly smaller than the earth but not by much at all being essentially earth's true twin but a damned one.

The atmospheric pressure is so high at the surface it is as great as the bottom of the pacific and the atmosphere is so dense it bend's light like a liquid.

A suitable home for the devil perhap's especially if he is a son of Venus and perhaps that is where the angelic rebellion took place if they were once human like us but before the creation of man and could the dust of the earth have been litterally fallen angel's living like savages with the breath of life being a restoration of there souls with a new start only for that to be sabotaged by the Devil out of hatred and jealousy against the very being's he once led but whose true father had shown mercy.

I am just musing but this is one interesting thread that throw's a spanner into many different work's and may trip idiologists on both side's of the Atheist vs Religious debate as well as offering new possibility's to the many possible artifact's on the moon and mars and another plausible source, previous races of man but are we related to them in any way whatever other than the ideal of God being the true father of both.

a reply to: occrest

The word "replenish" hasn't always meant "to fill again". At the time the King James Version was translated from the original languages, "replenish" meant basically "to make full". Here is a link to a webpage that explains it pretty well:

answersingenesis.org...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

God so loved the world (Kosmos/created order)

God sent his son to be the savior of the Kosmos

6But one has testified somewhere, saying,
“WHAT IS MAN, THAT YOU REMEMBER HIM?
OR THE SON OF MAN, THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HIM?

7“YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS;
YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

8YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.”
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

1 Cor 15
26The last enemy that will be abolished is death (notice not "satan, or lucifer, but all death"). 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Notice all things are subjected to the Son. As all things were created by, through and for him. This is the same subjection as the son does to the father. This is not a military victory, or something negative. All creation is subjected to the Son as then the Son/all creation is subjected to the Father.

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything(all). 19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

All creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.

Universal restoration, All in All

God was in Christ reconciling the Kosmos to himself, not counting their trespasses against them

When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to myself. The word all things is the same in all of the above verses. It is all/pas. It does not qualify "all" it is 'the all" meaning everything that there is.

Behold I am making 'pas'/all things new.

a reply to: Daavid

Im not sure what age the Giza pyramid is from (angelic, antediluvian, or postdiluvian), but I do know it is unique in design and placement. Its also note worthy how the satelite city of New Jerusalem is described as having proportionally similar dimensions. Many think the satelite city is cubical, but it could just as easily be a pyramid. Perhaps the Giza pyramid is a mock up model, and all other pyramids are poor copies. Just my input.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I really enjoyed your post.

I totally agree with your analysis that Jesus did die for us mortals but I do not believe he died for those angels in heaven who turned their back on God. Why? Lucifer and those who fell with him knew their creator much better than we do. They not only saw him as he sits on his throne but they experienced his almighty power and wisdom for many milliniums. How many milliniums did the angels witness the Father and Son in heaven before man was made? I do not think anyway knows that answer. It could have been easily millions of years before man was made.

As it states in the NT - the one unforgiveable sin is that against the Holy Spirit. A sin against the Holy Spirit and you will NEVER be forgiven. The Holy Spirit is God.... him in spirit form. So if we are not forgiven for this crime then why would the angels who rebelled against God (and not his spirit) be forgiven. So not everyone will be forgiven for their sins even if they repent it will make no difference.

For this post I will call Lucifer and those who followed him - the fallen ones. When Jesus walked this earth as a man the fallen ones could easily spot him. They knew who he was. Some even screamed out who he was and they were told to be silent. It was not the time to reveal who Jesus really was. These fallen ones were scared and I mean really scared - who would want their spirit inside a pig? (The story is in the NT)

Now the Holy Spirit was not known until after Jesus's resurrection, before then there is no mention in the bible of the Holy Spirit. However there are numerous warning in the OT of the wrath of God and about punishment in this world and beyond.

Jesus also known as the Son of Man came here to earth and died for our sins. He did not need to come here to die for the fallen ones. Actually Lucifer's punishment is talked about throughout the bible - the first time:

Genesis 3:15 - (Here God is talking to Lucifer) And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers, he will crush your head and you will strike his heel.

So God told Lucifer that someone will be coming who you will strike his heel but he will kill you. That someone is Jesus. I like the word ENMITY meaning hate. God stated he would put people (from the woman's bloodline) that will HATE Lucifer and his offspring! WHAT? Lucifer and his offspring???? Yep. Those who have also rebelled against God......hmmmmm I wonder who he is talking about.

Lucifer became full of pride and he wanted to be worshipped as God. Lucifer became full of jealousy when he saw how God loved man. Since Lucifer was an archangel he had power and wisdom that most angels do not have. He ruled over a multitude of other angels in heaven and convinced most of them to follow him and to rebel against the one true God. This has brought strife, murder, greed, sin, etc... to ALL of mankind.

In the book of Revelation it states that Lucifer and his followers will be thrown in the lake of fire - meaning the second death ..... the final death.....no type of existance.....gone forever. And then Hell is thrown into the lake of fire....

P.S. This is after the second resurrection.

So no more hell.......no more Lucifer, no more demons or evil spirits, no more human rebels against God and his laws........only God's chosen people .... It is at this time when God's city will be seen as it returns to earth.

So hell is not and will not be forever but only for a time.....

Praise to the one true God!

originally posted by: Daavid
Very interesting topic. There does seem to be a lot more to the Biblical account than first meets the eye.

As far as Egypt and the pyramids go, my theory is they were part of the 'Old world order' run by the Nephilim.
The reasons being, pyramids all over the world (currently the symbol for the NWO/Illuminati) also elongated skulls found at these sites around the world (the plates in the skulls are not typical human). Notice the Egyptian Pharoes head wear, covering what could be elongated skulls? Why do we have tribes copying these creatures. Were they the Nephilim who had created the Old world order, and we currently see the New world order taking shape, in its image. Same symbolism, everything.

That is just my theory and probably far from truth.

The Egyptian pyramids are much older than most people think. I can not remember the name of the book but according to the author he and his team received permission by the Egyptian government to examine one of the pyramids and he thinks the pyramids are at least 10,000 years old and that was back in the 30's or 40's when he examined them.

Saltwater has been found all over the Egyptian pyramids.............I wonder where the saltwater came from.?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth for the angels to inhabit. Then the Earth became desolate and void because of the revolt of Heleill (Satan) and his faction of angels. We know this because Jeremiah saw in a vision, a time on Earth before man, when cities existed.

According to Michael Heiser, who has a PHd in Hebrew say that grammatically the most accurate way to translate Genesis 1:1-3 is When God began to create the Heavens and the Earth Now the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters And God said let there be light and there was light. In this translation, I think you can still see that there is a gap of time between 1 and 2 and something happened that is not mentioned that caused the Earth to become formless and void, and that the first creative act actually mentioned in Genesis 1 is the creation of light. This also means that Earth and the universe could be extremely old. I personally hold the view that Satan owned the Earth before God restored it, and once Man lost his dominion over it. God allowed Satan Dominion again.

The theory that Christ died for angels seems to be undermined by the beginning of Hebrews 2:16. How are you interpreting this portion " For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham..."?

And this part of Hebrew 9, "For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us...?" Both of those seem to me that Christ is only our way of redemption. That doesn't mean that there might not be a redemption plan for all of those, but Satan and all his angels are in open rebellion against God even though they know far more about Him then we do. They know his power and can probably fathom it far better than we can and yet the still rebelled. Satan and his angels have already made up their minds as you have said at the end of the OP. That is obvious from Scripture. Salvation has and always will be nothing but a choice and a change of mind and a few words spoken with your lips. I think Satan and his band of angels made up there choice a long time ago. I assume there choice was much simpler as God they can talk to God and see Him in ways we cannot.

Here we see that Jesus' sacrifice was unlike the Levitical sacrifice in the sense, that Jesus' sacrifice is permanent. Otherwise, Jesus would've had to suffer regularly from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

I did a little bit of digging into the Hebrew.

26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the KATABOLE of the KOSMOS;

Kosmos has many many definitions, but to me it can also mean the inhabitants of earth, or simply men. Although I will say it can also mean the laying down of the universe.

www.biblestudytools.com...

I am not quite sure where I stand on Jesus dying for the sins of angels as well, but I suppose it doesn't really matter in the end.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

I once shared your opinion too, but if you think about it, before the fall, both Adam and Eve had a direct relationship with God. They were just as innocent as Satan once was, and we have no idea how long Adam and Eve were in the garden.

God is forgiving. It would be out of character for Him to extend grace to man, and not the angels. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, because once you blaspheme the Spirit, you are beyond the point of repentence. In this case, its the individual's choice.

I once shared your opinion too, but if you think about it, before the fall, both Adam and Eve had a direct relationship with God. They were just as innocent as Satan once was, and we have no idea how long Adam and Eve were in the garden.

Adam and Eve were not with God from the begining of time but the angels were. Men die ......angels are immortal until God changes that. So clearly we (humans and angels) are not on the same boat. I don't think we can compare humans with angels. Satan and his brothers has comitted the unforgiveable sin - there is no repent for this sin.

God is forgiving. It would be out of character for Him to extend grace to man, and not the angels. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, because once you blaspheme the Spirit, you are beyond the point of repentence. In this case, its the individual's choice.

That is what Lucifer did but not to his spirit but to his FACE. Same as to his spirit.

You understand that God has emotions as we do? He too can hate. He has said so many times in the bible.

Is your pastor teaching this about Satan? I think you should talk with your pastor about this.

I would advise you to reconsider your thoughts concerning Satan.

Psalm 82:1 God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers. 2 How long will you judge unjustly And show partiality to the wicked?
Selah.
3 Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. 4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7 “Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.” 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth! For it is You who possesses all the nations.

I think Psalm 82 implies that the fallen angels had a salvation plan. At the fall of Bable, man was divided up into nations, and each nation was ruled a fallen angel. Israel was called out to be God's representative on Earth. In Psalm 82:2, we see God rebuking the angels for ruling over man unjustly. Its almost as if God was giving them the opportunity to repent. The beings that our Lord called gods will die like men. That must be a slap in Satan's face. Again we see, that the fallen angels still have a choice.