MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
a reply to: Xcathdra

About the voice recordings that weren't mentioned in any of your articles, or the false claim that the black box can prove a missile strike, for instance.

Black box findings consistent with missile blast

As Russia continues to deny culpability for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine, European officials say that black box data shows the doomed airplane was hit by a missile explosion, according to CBS News.

Data from the black box points to a "massive explosive decompression," with the plane's fuselage getting hit by shrapnel from the explosion.

This is consistent with a photo of a piece of the plane's wreckage that shows obvious signs of shrapnel damage, according to The Aviationist. The missile likely detonated on the right side of the plane, sending shrapnel clear through the aircraft, eventually shooting out of the left side.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

Explosive decompression at 33k feet would result in loss of conscious in about 3 seconds with no chance of emergency air bags deploying.

In addition to the black box info, the damage to the aircraft (from what the investigators have been able to see) shows signs of shrapnel, which is consistent with a missile. The amount of damage caused is more than an air to air missile could cause.

Different warhead, different explosive force.

The conclusion is not solely based on the black box.

This is why I and others keep pointing out the rebels destruction of the crime scene. They have removed large chucks of debris and have not disclosed where the debris is going. They are not allowing access to it either.

originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
Good save on the Su-25 not being used anymore though.

it happens

a reply to: Agit8dChop

They have safety radar (collision avoidance - air and ground etc but nothing for missiles). the only commercial airline company I know of have counter measures on civilian commercial aircraft is El AL airlines (Israel). Absent them a commercial airliner would not know if they are being painted by missile radar.

a reply to: MysterX

Well Russia is targeting Ukrainian aircraft and shooting them down from Russian territory (air and ground). The Russian are training and equipping pro Russians.

Logic tells me the Russians are directly involved but those in DC dont agree.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The conclusion is not solely based on the black box.

Exactly why the title of the article and your thread is not accurate. It is almost completely based on the found part with shrapnell holes in it, because any explosion, in- or outside the plane would have caused explosive decompression.

Still no explanation where you got the voice recorder talk from.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Logic tells me the Russians are directly involved but those in DC dont agree.

I think they may agree, but without that hard evidence they can't say they know for sure.

And I would hope Putin was smart enough to keep his hands out of the fire while actually stoking that fire from the sidelines.

The KGB has taught him well on how to keep himself out of the firing line.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You keep repeating the same thing, ignoring what others are saying to you...why do you do that?

As Russia continues to deny culpability for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine

Again you are implying Russia is behind this, parroting what the US government was accusing Russia of and with the same zero evidence or proof of any of it...i would imagine Amazonian tribes would also deny culpability, as well as Pacific islanders...by posting this rubbish over and over, you are attempting to create and cement a meme of Russia and MH17 in the readers mind, of which now even the wildly accusatory US government even admit was a false accusation...yet you continue. Do you have an ulterior motive, that is quite apart from wanting to get to the truth of the matter?

As Russia continues to deny culpability for the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine, European officials say that black box data shows the doomed airplane was hit by a missile explosion, according to CBS News. Data from the black box points to a "massive explosive decompression," with the plane's fuselage getting hit by shrapnel from the explosion. This is consistent with a photo of a piece of the plane's wreckage that shows obvious signs of shrapnel damage, according to The Aviationist. The missile likely detonated on the right side of the plane, sending shrapnel clear through the aircraft, eventually shooting out of the left side.

Again, as has already been pointed out by quite a number of posts including my own, this damage as well as the explosive decompression could have been the result of many causes, including but certainly not limited to an air to air missile carrying a blast/fragmentation warhead, even a small 2kg fragmentation warhead exploded nearby the fuselage of a commercial aircraft will obliterate it...fragments will travel right through the fuselage, through the cabin and carry on out the other side...this is what fragmentation munitions are designed to do.

At such a high altitude of 33,000 feet, and going at speed, even small damage to the thin exterior skin will doom the aircraft, chunks of skin would literally be ripped off in short order due to the forces acting upon it and the entire airframe, subject to intolerable stresses and forces would disintegrate in mid air.

An explosive inside the cabin, or the cargo hold however small the device is, say something the size and power of 'the shoe bomber' or the 'underpants bomber' had, would cause the same disaster if it ripped through the skin.

The resulting decompression would be like an explosion from a much larger device and cause all sorts of flying debris and shrapnel at the moment of decompression.

There are a number of explanations here...why do you insist on relying on already discounted and admittedly false information from the US government in your posts, without acknowledging the other very real possibilities.

The actual truth of the situation is this...we don't know what happened to MH17, we don't know if it was a SAM, An AAM or explosive device on board...each one of these would produce the damage and data we see.


As for the patriots not allowing access to the area, again this is propaganda and outright lies.

PLENTY of foreigners have been to the scene, recorded the scene and poked around the wreckage.

If virtually EVERY major MSM employed reporter, including Channel 4, BBC, CNN and many more can get to the site, nose around, interview locals and sift through the remains and still remain perfectly safe and unmolested...why is it you suppose the official investigators feel that they are prevented from visiting the site too?

The patriots have asked for the investigators to make haste and go to the site to perform a full inspection and investigation, as too has Russia insisted that a full and detailed investigation be performed as soon as possible...but the inspectors simply won't go there, refusing citing safety issues even though they have been given assurances of their safety from the patriots...this is a LOT different than 'not being given access to the site', yet again, it has a nice propaganda ring to it and is a useful snippet with which to besmirch both the Ukrainian patriots and Russia, which is why it is parroted as much as the other lies and rubbish on this subject.

a reply to: GuerillaSkill

How is the thread title not accurate? It doesn't state this is proof of a missile strike but evidence of one. And it is certainly that. Very few things are going to cause explosive decompression at 33,000 feet.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MysterX

Yeah I already corrected that mistake a few posts up.

Sorry

No problem...as long as everyone is clear...the Ukrainian Air force does indeed have and still operates a fleet including SU-25's and variants.

Hopefully, this particular angle can now be put to rest and we can get on with what really matters...discovering the truth of what happened to MH17 and the unfortunate souls onboard.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

The point is mate, evidence of a missile strike is also evidence of a missile strike from an SU-25, shown on radar in the vicinity of MH17...it is also evidence of a small explosion originating onboard, that when piercing the hull will cause exactly the explosive decompression and fragmentation damage resulting from the aircraft breaking up mid-flight due to the extreme forcing acting upon it.

Evidence is not a foundation to point the finger at anyone, not the Russians not the Ukrainian patriots, not even the Ukrainian Air force. At least not the Ukrainian air force, without the added radar data showing the SU-25 nearby MH17 at any rate.

Which is why it is dangerous for the US and others to wildly point fingers at one party or another when nothing is defined and everything is uncertain...as Russia and the Ukrainian patriots have repeatedly called upon the international community to get a proper investigation underway as soon as possible, i think it would be a good idea for the crash investigators to get their fingers out of their backsides, crawl out from the Kiev hotels and actually do what they're being asked to do...bloody well grow a backbone, go out to the site and investigate!

Xcathdra, now I'm asking you personally: Do you have any idea why Kiev did not released ATC records? Isn't it bit odd? Ok, separatists destroyed its part of crime scene. Kiev "deleted" its part of crime scene completely. If ATC data could at any manner support Kiev's/West's point of view wouldn't it be logical to release it?

a reply to: Hijinx

I'm fairly certain there is satellite imagery of the situation, about 15 years ago I was at the museum of science and industry in Chicago, they had a unique interactive display at the museum. It was a satellite imagery display where they showed how good of images they could get of any spot on the planet, the first image they would show you was a recorded image of a woman getting out of her car in the museum's parking lot, they would zoom in so close that they could point out that there was a bee in her hair, then they would offer to let you see an image of what is going on at your house right then. They would also let the patrons play with the display to look at whatever they wanted to look at. After so many people kept saying that this is a very dangerous way for big brother to spy on people, they eventually removed this particular display from the museum. This was the technology from 15 years ago I'm sure it has been improved since then.

a reply to: MysterX

Even in the pictures that have been released to the public we can see that the shrapnel came from outside the plane. In regards to your claim that a 2kg A2A missile could cause this damage that's simply not true. One merely needs to look at KAL 007 to see that as the case. That was hit by two K-8 missiles which carry a 40kg warhead (it should be noted that the R-60 the Su-25 carries is only 3kg) and sustained nowhere near the damage we see in the case of MH17. It didn't break up in midair and in fact managed to stay airborne for almost another 10 minutes after the attack. All evidence we have at this point indicates a G2A missile was used.

If anyone here with an open, rational and unbiased mind and can still argue with factual evidence - or dispute any of the information contained in this analysis - well lets see it. This here in my eyes is irrefutable evidence as to who was behind this.

I am new here to ATS and yes I joined up specifically to comment on this subject. I am Australian and My PM is about to send troops into a situation that could very well provoke a hot war between Russia and NATO. This is of a huge concern to me. I am no shill - just a laptop analyst at home.

Anyway - please read this

21stcenturywire.com...

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Commercial airliners don't have that type of radar system, when you remove the nosecone of a commercial airliner it has a basic front scanning weather radar to assist pilots in avoiding harsh weather, it's not like the wild weasel, or the awax military planes which use omnidirectional radar systems that are designed for tracking enemy missiles, and enemy aircraft, enemy radar systems.

How many people in this thread know about operation Northwoods ? An official CIA record planning an attack by america on a civilian airliner to be blamed on Cuba

a reply to: tippo

I'm well aware of this plan. Highest floor of SBU building in Kiev is now occupied by CIA ...

a reply to: GuerillaSkill

The site requires the use of the article title.

a reply to: MysterX

Because I do not trust Putin.

Specifically all the lies / omissions Putin made up up for justification for invading Ukraine. I do not trust Russian media as it is all state controlled.

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

My guess would be the Dutch.

The Dutch legal system is investigating the incident and are proceeding with the mindset of possible criminal prosecution.

The ATC records could (most likely are) be considered evidence.

I am pretty sure the Dutch ;legal system operates on the presumption of innocence of a suspect with the burden on the government to prove guilt.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Fair enough. Do we have any indications that Dutch investigators gained access to Kiev's ATC records? It should be trivial operation when compared with transfer of hundreds decomposing bodies through more then half of Europe from civil war zone.