My First Post: The United Nations, Agenda 21, Sustainable Development, and the brand new Sustainable

I know that many think that.

But what is that based on? What evidence as far as the UN?

The only resolutions that are binding are mostly Security Council resolutions, and those only deal with countries disturbing international peace or violating sovereignty or violating human rights. Do you not agree that countries should be sanctioned for attacking another not in self-defense? Admittedly, the UN does so inconsistently, which is my issue with the Security Council.

Virtually all other departments and agreements in the UN are voluntary. How can it be authoritarian if 1) virtually all agreements are forged democratically through representatives from stakeholders 2) the agreements are basically voluntary and have no consequences?

This is what I mean by the evidence is not there. People are speaking to fears of hypotheticals in the future, not the actual state of the UN.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

But the UN system is not a form of authoritarianism. That's what I am getting at. The UN has less teeth than any government I know of excepting pure anarchy or chaotic situations.

But many people think it is authoritarian.

And corrupt.

Not easy to overcome mistakes is it.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I know that many think that.

But what is that based on? What evidence as far as the UN?

Doesn't matter does it.

It's up to the U.N. supporters to prove everything is good and well.

There's some evidence and I will post later in detail.

But many fear the NGOs that press for laws that are in effect on State and Local levels.

I mentioned those before.

Perhaps their track records and agendas are suspect since money is involved.

No, that is incorrect, accusers in all forms of justice and argumentation are required to produce evidence, Not the organization or person who is being accused. . If you accuse the UN of moving towards totalitarianism, of being corrupt, or being nefarious, and so on, it is upon you to provide concrete evidence. It is otherwise called slander or libel.

Totalitarian governments in the past accused people without presenting evidence.

You also did not provide evidence of those state laws as requested by me, which I politely asked for.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I know that many think that.

But what is that based on? What evidence as far as the UN?

Doesn't matter does it.

It's up to the U.N. supporters to prove everything is good and well.

There's some evidence and I will post later in detail.

But many fear the NGOs that press for laws that are in effect on State and Local levels.

I mentioned those before.

Perhaps their track records and agendas are suspect since money is involved.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm not talking about the "educated" versions.

It's all about perceptions.

Thunderous over-reactions turn people off and make them suspicious.

And laws and anti-laws too.

ICLEI

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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: pl3bscheese

Really? so you insult me and try to belittle me, throughout your response. But in the end you cannot even see what they are describing. They are describing global governance derived from corporate governance... Who will be the "stakeholders"?... You think it's going to be you and me?... Under corporate governance only those who have control of the stakes of the company have control and have a say on how the company is run... In this case the company is the whole world, and the stakeholders are the global elites.

Absolutely incorrect, and shows you have no comprehension of what is being stated in these documents. The whole point of going from corporate STOCKHOLDERS to corporate STAKEHOLDERS is to include OTHER entities besides wealthy individuals. If you bothered to read, the company's employees the companys customers, even the company's competitors are stakeholders. You just have no clue what you're talking about.

As for "who is a shill"... You joined this website recently, and there are a lot of threads on these forums on "shills" that have been paid recently to join "conspiracy websites"... If anyone is a shill it would be more logical that the shills are people like you. More so when your whole argument is to make ad hominem attacks and trying to belittle people who would not agree with you.

Incorrect, I did not ONLY make ad homs, you are a liar, and yet you choose not to go over ANY of the evidence I provided. Time spent on a website does not a shill make.

That paper is describing on how the UN and the global elites plan to govern Earth as if it was a global corporation. All your insults and belittling comments will not change that fact...

Psychosis. Plain and simple. Black and white reasoning that can only come about through the willful exclusion of contradictory data to the claim. There is NO mention of "control" in the document, there is NO talk of anything more than VOLUNTARY ACTION by nations which RETAIN THEIR SOVEREIGNTY.

There is NO reasoning with you, and NO wisdom in continuing a discussion with a psychotic.

You want to address the points I brought up, then bring it. If you want to just claim a spade a duece, just cause, then don't expect someone to play nice and bother responding over and over again.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

A letter sent out just today intra-org from the co-chairs of the Open Working Group:

"PERMANENT MISSION OF HUNGARY Permanent Mission Of Kenya
TO THE UNITED NATIONS

New York, 28 July

Excellency,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your commitment and support to the UNGA Open Working Group process over the 17 months of its duration. We would have loved to take the time to express our gratitude and thanks at the conclusion of the final session on Saturday afternoon, but, if truth be told, physical exhaustion and mental fatigue after 36 hours of non-stop debate, negotiations and drafting, following on seven, 12- hour days, all conspired to make it emotionally and intellectually impossible to say what needed to be said at that time. The conclusion, acclamation and ovation was truly most gratifying and, as we had intimated in earlier sessions, a sign that in the end we would indeed all share and bask in the success and glow of our work.

The 17 goals and 169 targets, with only a handful of expression of reservations on some targets, are truly indicative of a global consensus that we are confident will not only stand the test of time, but that with hindsight, will also prove remarkable in its depth and breadth as well as its transformative reach and impact. This is truly our hope.
Once again, we thank every Member State, every delegation, all the major groups and the UN Secretariat and its agencies and organizations and support systems, without whom this noble and, we believe, legacy enterprise of the international community, would not have been realized.

To one and all, thank you for giving us this opportunity to lead.

Please accept, Excellency, the assurances of our highest consideration.

Mr. Macharia Kamau
Permanent Representative Permanent Mission of the Republic of Kenya to the United Nation
Mr. Csaba Kőrösi Permanent Representative Permanent Mission of Hungary to the United Nations
Permanent Representatives of Member States
to the United Nations, New York
(listed in Annex to General Assembly decision 67/555)
cc: All Permanent Representatives and Permanent Observers to the United Nations
New York"

What do you mean by "educated versions?"

And, "over-reactions?"

If you mean my defending the UN I think that it is important for people to realize here that many people are putting forth very serious accusations, about as serious as they get. War crimes one poster said for all involved in the UN. Another called me a paid shill. You implied that the UN is totalitarian. On another thread a person said the UN is taking way religious freedoms. And not one so far has provided a credible citation or source of evidence. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But serious claims require serious evidence, especially when they are potentially offensive.

Perceptions matter but people also are responsible for being aware of whether their views are based on evidence and reality or fear and paranoia.

It would be like me saying "All Southern Baptist Pastors are satanic pedophiles," and when someone asks for evidence I refuse and also call them a shill.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm not talking about the "educated" versions.

It's all about perceptions.

Thunderous over-reactions turn people off and make them suspicious.

And laws and anti-laws too.

ICLEI

ICLEI Home

More States Pass Anti-Agenda 21 Legislation to Protect Private Property Rights

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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Things like this make people skeptical.......

True or untrue, people are very suspicious.


Oil-for-Food Programme


How Corrupt Is the World Food Program?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
What a amazing thread, thanks for posting.

Funny how combating poverty, providing education, and developing sustainability is somehow a threat.

Do tell me, how in the world do you think they can "try" to eradicate all poverty all over the world and make everyone equal"?...

Perhaps if people like yourself knew the fact that this has been tried MANY times before and has failed might make you understand that trying it at a larger level will be an ever bigger fail...

This is EXACTLY what socialist regimes CLAIMED would happen in their countries if people embraced these same ideas, and do tell us how well are things going to people living in socialist and communist regimes?...

Do you not understand that in the name of "making everyone equal, erasing poverty, etc, etc, they need to control EVERYTHING?

You really think this is going to benefit anyone?...

a reply to: xuenchen

It's amazing how the op claims that there is nothing ominous about this program by the UN, that they will never mess with the laws of any countries, or the rights of people yet these claims that "poverty will be eradicated by 2030" would need the UN to actually control EVERY nation. How can anyone make such claims without having control over nations? Or in fact without controlling the way of life of EVERYONE?...

How ironic that people like myself have stated for years that this was the goal of the world elites and leftists were claiming "it's not true" yet here we are... I was born and raised part of my life under a communist regime, and it now seems more and more obvious that a similar regime is what the world leaders have in mind for everyone...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You do realize even the USA practices socialism to a degree.

No sane person wants to make everyone equal or even attempt such. It is the humane thing to do. It will be cheaper to fight poverty than continually wage war was we are doing now.

Good grief! I actually read this entire thread.

The UN is one big Tower of Babel. I'm sure they do some good with the gazillions of dollars they have, and for the worker bees within the organization such as this OP, I'm sure everything is hunky dory, all love and light. If everyone would just play along like good little children, they could clean up this mess of a world we live in.

No, thank you. Once you come on board and sign on that dotted line, that's it. Oh? You didn't see that little clause on page 9,521 Sec. 4 (a) Part IV? Too bad.

Also! Good grief! What is with the name-calling because someone happens to have researched and connected the dots in a different way from you UN-loving utopians.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You do realize even the USA practices socialism to a degree.

That would be a topic for another thread.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

...
No sane person wants to make everyone equal or even attempt such. It is the humane thing to do. It will be cheaper to fight poverty than continually wage war was we are doing now.

Then you didn't read what the OP's friend supposedly stated which is contrary to what you are saying. Yes they do claim that they want to eradicate all poverty and make everyone equal. The problem is that people don't realize that this won't be done by increasing the standard of living of people in third world countries. What the UN plans to do is to LOWER the standard of living in western nations to equal those of third nations.

I made a thread a while back showing what globalists have been doing, and their plans. Including statements from people like Bill Gates who suggested that we need to lower our overall CO2 emissions to 0... Now continue reading to understand what I am talking about before you get on your anti-CO2 crusade...

Bill Gates in a speech after talking about CO2 being the cause of Climate Change gave forth an equation.

CO2= P x S x E x C

or

CO2 = P(People) X S(Services per person) X E(Energy per service) X C(CO2 per unit energy)

Then Gates went on to say how one of these numbers would have to get to near 0, and went along explaining each one of those units. The first one, population... Gates stated the following.

(NaturalNews) In a recent TED conference presentation, Microsoft billionaire Bill Gates, who has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to new vaccine efforts, speaks on the issue of CO2 emissions and its effects on climate change. He presents a formula for tracking CO2 emissions as follows: CO2 = P x S x E x C.

P = People
S = Services per person
E = Energy per service
C = CO2 per energy unit

Then he adds that in order to get CO2 to zero, "probably one of these numbers is going to have to get pretty close to zero."

Following that, Bill Gates begins to describe how the first number -- P (for People) -- might be reduced. He says:

"The world today has 6.8 billion people... that's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

You can watch this yourself at:
www.naturalnews.tv...

In that same thread I posted several articles on how population control has been exercised in third world countries by the elitists/globalists.

Bill Gates has even stated that he has been inspired by the work of Rokefeller...

Let's see what sort of work Gates is talking about..

The GAVI Alliance (Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization)

The GAVI Alliance, founded in 2000 with the help of the Gates Foundation, has the goal of vaccinating all of the third world. The member organizations of GAVI are listed on group’s the website, which include:

“…national governments of donor and developing countries, the Bill and Melinda Gates Children’s Vaccine Program, the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Associations (IFPMA), the Rockefeller Foundation, UNICEF, the World Bank Group and the World Health Organization (WHO).”

In December of 2000, David Rockefeller and William H. Gates Sr., among others, (pictured to the right) visited the Rockefeller University campus to take part in a meeting on “Philanthropy in a Global Century”. While there, Gates spoke glowingly about his inspiration from Rockefeller in founding GAVI,

“Gates said that ‘Taking our lead and our inspiration from work already done by The Rockefeller Foundation, our foundation actually started GAVI by pledging $750 million to something called the Global Fund for Children’s Vaccines, an instrument of GAVI.’”

He also praised the Rockefeller family’s century of philanthropy, saying, ‘It seems like every new corner we turn, the Rockefellers are already there. And in some cases, they have been there for a long, long time.’”

The fact that such a global mechanism like GAVI exists – in the hands of outspoken population control advocates – for delivering vaccines to millions of people across the world should be disconcerting to say the least; Especially when confronted with the mountains of documentation proving that anti-fertility vaccines have been researched and delivered by the World Health Organization with grant money from the Rockefeller Foundation.
...

Anti-fertility vaccines

As Jurriaan Maessen reports, the World Health Organization, one of GAVI’s partners, teamed up with the World Bank and UN Population Fund in the 1970′s under the “Task Force on Vaccines for Fertility Regulation”. The Task Force,


“…acts as a global coordinating body for anti-fertility vaccine R&D in the various working groups and supports research on different approaches, such as anti-sperm and anti-ovum vaccines and vaccines designed to neutralize the biological functions of hCG. The Task Force has succeeded in developing a prototype of an anti-hCG-vaccine.”

In 1989 research was conducted by the National Institute of Immunology in New Delhi India on the use of ‘carriers’ such as Tetanus Toxoid and Diphtheria to bypass the immune system and deliver the female hormone called human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG). The research paper was carried in the Oxford University Press in 1990 and was titled “Bypass by an alternate ‘carrier’ of acquired unresponsiveness to hCG upon repeated immunization with tetanus-conjugated vaccine.” The Rockefeller Foundation is listed in the document as giving grants for the research.

By delivering hCG within a Tetanus vaccine – which acts as the carrier – the human body treats hCG as an intruder and creates antibodies against it. This has the effect of sterilizing women who receive the vaccine, and in many cases miscarriage when given during pregnancy.
...

www.oldthinkernews.com...


What people like you jrod don't seem to understand is that we are living in a CARBON world. ALL life on this planet is carbon based, and we all emit CO2 naturally, as well as our pets and farm animals. All life on this planet also need CO2 to exist. Without CO2 all green biomass would not be able to produce oxygen, or the nutrients humans, and animals take from plants and trees, or the nutrients humans get from animals. I am not talking about "oil" but about CO2...

Anyways, to continue on at least one area how the UN, and globalists plan to "combat climate change".

Here is another source showing their work on population reduction by introducing vaccines which induce infertility in women without their consent...

...
ACTORS INVOLVED
In the early 1970s a group of scientists came together at the WHO to discuss the impact of the advances in biosciences on birth control. In 1973 the WHO established the Task Force on Vaccines for Fertility Regulation, as part of the HRP. The HRP, today under the auspices of the United Nations Development Programme, the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), the WHO and the World Bank, concentrates on research and development of contraceptive methods and services in developing countries and its social, ethical, legal and regulatory issues.
The Task Force acts as a global coordinating body for anti-fertility vaccine R&D in the various working groups and supports research on different approaches, such as anti-sperm and anti-ovum vaccines and vaccines designed to neutralize the biological functions of hCG. The Task Force has succeeded in developing a prototype of an anti-hCG-vaccine.
Currently five large and a number of small institutions are conducting research on anti-fertility vaccines. The five large institutions involved are:

* WHO/HRP, Switzerland. Major supporters of the programme are the governments of Sweden, United Kingdom, Norway, Denmark, Germany and Canada, as well as the UNFPA and the World Bank.

* The Population Council, United States. Among the Council s financiers are the Rockefeller Foundation, the National Institutes of Health and the US Agency for International Development.

* National Institute of Immunology, India. Major financiers are the Indian government, the Canadian International Development Research Centre and the Rockefeller Foundation.

* The Contraceptive Development Program (CONRAD), United States. Publicly funded.

* The Center for Population Research at the National Institute of Child Health and Development/the National Institutes of Health (NICHD/NIH), United States. Publicly funded.
...

home.snafu.de...


Another example of "forced sterilization" being performed by the globalists includes.

Forced Sterilization
Women around the world have many issues that they face and need to overcome. One of these issues is forced sterilization. Forced sterilization is the process of permanently ending someone's ability to reproduce without his or her consent. This has occurred around the world, including here in the United States. The reasons for this atrocity also varies, as does the procedure. Along with the human rights violation that forced sterilization infringes upon comes some health risks.
...
Peru's population control program, although it is not officially recognized by the government, uses some of these tactics (mcsnet.ab.ca...). Women are promised food and clothing for their children. When they show up to receive the food and clothes, they are told that in order to get the items they must be sterilized. If the refuse, sometimes they will get the items that month but are told that in the future they must be sterilized before getting the food and clothes. In these cases, the women feel as if they are being forced into making this decision in order to help care for the children she already has. In other cases, women are not even notified. Sometimes when women give birth, the doctors sterilize her without her consent and without her even knowing it. Another tactic that was used to trick the people was in Japan. There, some victims were told that they could have the procedure reversed at any time down the road (Yamaguchi, 1997).
...
Even with the health risks that are evident for the victims, countries still used forced sterilizations as a means to an end, whether it be a eugenics program or a population control program. Forced sterilizations are then just one more example of something that women must endure throughout the world.
...

www.webster.edu...

Back in 2012, when I made a thread about this, I even posted a news article in the latest example of how the international globalists were using "forced sterilizations" and how some of these programs were being paid.

UK aid helps to fund forced sterilisation of India's poor

Money from the Department for International Development has helped pay for a controversial programme that has led to miscarriages and even deaths after botched operations

Gethin Chamberlain

The Observer, Saturday 14 April 2012

Tens of millions of pounds of UK aid money have been spent on a programme that has forcibly sterilised Indian women and men, the Observer has learned. Many have died as a result of botched operations, while others have been left bleeding and in agony. A number of pregnant women selected for sterilisation suffered miscarriages and lost their babies.

The UK agreed to give India £166m to fund the programme, despite allegations that the money would be used to sterilise the poor in an attempt to curb the country's burgeoning population of 1.2 billion people.

Sterilisation has been mired in controversy for years. With officials and doctors paid a bonus for every operation, poor and little-educated men and women in rural areas are routinely rounded up and sterilised without having a chance to object. Activists say some are told they are going to health camps for operations that will improve their general wellbeing and only discover the truth after going under the knife.

Court documents filed in India earlier this month claim that many victims have been left in pain, with little or no aftercare. Across the country, there have been numerous reports of deaths and of pregnant women suffering miscarriages after being selected for sterilisation without being warned that they would lose their unborn babies.

Yet a working paper published by the UK's Department for International Development in 2010 cited the need to fight climate change as one of the key reasons for pressing ahead with such programmes. The document argued that reducing population numbers would cut greenhouse gases, although it warned that there were "complex human rights and ethical issues" involved in forced population control.
...

www.guardian.co.uk...-of-comments

...
In July, the UK will host a family planning summit in London along with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. The “event will aim to generate unprecedented political commitment and resources from developing countries, donors, the private sector, civil society and other partners to meet the family planning needs of women in the world’s poorest countries by 2020,” stated the UK’s Department for International Development.
...

www.turtlebayandbeyond.org...

BTW, do notice how I put in bold the Department for International Development in the first and second article. In the first one it shows direct evidence that this department has been giving funds for "forced sterilizations", and on the second I showed how the Gates plan to "generate political commitment and resources" as stated by the Department for International Development...

You actually think these measures will only be implemented in third world nations?... in actuality similar forced sterilizations have already been carried without the knowledge or consent from those being "forced" to be sterilized.

Deadline Looms For Victims Of North Carolina's Forced Sterilization Program

AP | By JEROME BAILEY Jr.

Posted: 06/24/2014 3:02 pm EDT Updated: 06/24/2014 3:59 pm EDT



RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — Victims of North Carolina's forced sterilization program are facing a Monday deadline to file a claim to receive payment from the state.

An estimated 1,800 victims are still alive, 520 of whom have filed claims so far. Of the 33 states that ran forced sterilization programs, North Carolina is the only one to compensate victims. A $10 million fund has been established to pay them.

State officials are continuing to push for more victims to come forward and file claims.

The $10 million will be divided according to how many victims file claims and are approved. Victims will be paid on June 30, 2015, one year after the deadline to file a claim.
...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

The above is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now, TRY to think again how do you think the UN, and globalists intent to "eradicate poverty, blah, blah, blah blah..."

Is there a U.N. progress report on this problem in India ? .....

U.N. Campaign Targets Open Defecation in India

originally posted by: xuenchen
Is there a U.N. progress report on this problem in India ? .....

U.N. Campaign Targets Open Defecation in India

Hey, perhaps people don't know that India is actually a socialist country, and unfortunately most people are living under the worst conditions you can imagine. There are parents who have to maim themselves and sell body parts to feed their children... including but not limiting parents who have to cut their own fingers and sell them to get money to feed their children... In a socialist country...

BTW, Xuenchen, do you remember what some of us were stating would happen in Venezuela if Chavez got the power and the introduction of socialism occurred in Venezuela?... Back then there were no fights in supermarkets for the last food items, and now it is common occurrence to see people fight in Venezuela's supermarkets fighting over the last food products... Not only that, but how many members in ATS were saying "nothing bad will happen, this is the best thing that could happen to Venezuela, etc, etc"...

Despite the fact that all these claims of "bringing equality to all, eradicating poverty, etc, etc" has NEVER been able to be implemented in those countries where it was stated that "socialism will solve all problems", the world elites now want to introduce this system worldwide...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yup. I remember.

And I remember the "attacks".

Now we know more.