Spiritual Reorientation 10: The Art of Life

a reply to: WhiteHat

Action is a process, not a thing. Hope you agree on that.
Of what substance is your love? Is it a material thing?

I am the material thing, love is the process. The substance of my love is myself and the things I love.

When I said that we are more than material, I didn't gave you fixed concept of what our spiritual part is. I didn't said soul or some other cliche, so let's give up this idea for a moment, so we can get to the bottom of it, ok?

Of what substance are your thoughts and feelings? Your ideas?
What about your spirituality? Is it a material thing?

My thoughts and feelings are my bodily processes. My ideas are my thoughts and feelings when spoken or written. My spirituality is the way I live life. These aren’t random ideas I am having here, I have thought greatly about them. I also believe the mind is the body, and that consciousness is the body. Many of my musings here go into greater detail.

Aren't all this things immaterial, yet forming an inner world for every one of us?
Aren't our actions ruled and born from this inner world? Where is the need for a spirituality, in the body or in the mind?

They only seem immaterial, like the sun seems to orbit around the earth. We cannot look, touch, smell, hear and taste inside our own body. Where we cannot sense is the only place the immaterial ever seems to lie. In the end, it is usually our ignorance that hides in these places. So let's work with what we do have instead of what we wished we had.

a reply to: Visitor2012

There's no skin to get under whatsoever. You're imagining a drama that isn't taking place. I'm here for my own enjoyment just like everyone else. Isn't that why you're here?

I never said 'you know nothing, but I do' that's just how you took it. My curiosity is satisfied, I asked you what you knew, what justified these threads, and I got my answer.

Very good. So there is no more problem.

So you see me as authority? Please don't. I'm just a regular guy. But you know, I'm deeply saddened that you're not enjoying this conversation. With all the time we put into these responses. A shame. I, on the other hand, have thoroughly enjoyed it. Carry on.

Don’t worry, I never have nor ever will see you as an authority. I’m glad we can find common ground. It is a rarity among spiritualists. I also enjoy our discussions.

a reply to: Aphorism

so you are a spiritualist?

a reply to: Aphorism

Indeed. However, I'm not a spiritualist.

a reply to: BlueMule

Interesting. I rarely come across a person like you online, someone who has seen beyond the curtain. Most people like this usually stay out of conversations all together especially in places like this.

My experience was kind of similar. It took me 3 years to finally stabilize from it and allow it to do it's work without my intervention. There were days when I felt absolutely crazy and my emotions were off the scale. That's why I learned how to trigger OBE's, to 'to plunge back in there and try figure things out'. Unfortunately, that realm only opened up an entirely new hamster wheel of seeking for me. There were tremendous, Earth shaking, revelations about everything else, but my question still remained: "Who/what the hell am I?"

My wife protected me during that time, kept the outside world at bay if you will. While this internal 'metamorphosis' was taking place. I kept going back, every night, figuratively downloading as much of the Universe as I could. I found out things that I would never repeat to any one else, and even if I spoke it, it would sound too paradoxical in contrast to the seeming reality of the physical World that everyone sees and believes in....Maya, that it would open up a can of worms that I had neither the patience or temper to see through to the end. So I never speak about it with anyone, especially people who are under the spell of Maya, which is a virtually impenetrable illusion.

The discovery of Maya, delivered me out of that cycle of finding myself in those experiences. Because I had only exchanged the physical suffering, with 'higher' suffering.

Liberation from Maya is what delivered me through all of it. And somehow, I stumbled into the knowledge of 'Who' I am, or better yet 'What I'm not'. Ever since then, I've completely ignored Maya in all it's forms.

You asked if you were enlightened. I heard a Sage say that if you're suffering less, and less, you are doing well. When you no longer feel the entanglement of this World (even the higher realms all of which is Maya) and you don't feel the suffering, you are making progress. If a person suffers more, then it's a good chance they're lost in Maya.

However when it eventually settles in you, you will not be affected by Maya again. And you can walk the Earth, grounded, still, unmoved, fresh, pure and vibrantly alive and full of contentment and joy. That's liberation from both Gold (spiritual) and Iron (physical) chains.

I'm sure there's a few holes in there because the English language makes it virtually impossible to go into further depth. But depth is not necessary, liberation is far more important, because that's what solves the void.

a reply to: TzarChasm

so you are a spiritualist?

Heavens no. I do not believe in any spirit as defined by religious thought. When I use the world spiritualism, I am referring to its original philosophical use, before it was perverted by spiritual thought.

spiritualism (n.) 
1796, "advocacy of a spiritual view" (opposed to materialism), from spiritual + -ism. Table-rapping sense is from 1853.

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: BlueMule

Interesting. I rarely come across a person like you online, someone who has seen beyond the curtain. Most people like this usually stay out of conversations all together especially in places like this.

Yeah, the generation of underacheiving gen-X couch potato mystics is an anomaly, eh?

My experience was kind of similar. It took me 3 years to finally stabilize from it and allow it to do it's work without my intervention. There were days when I felt absolutely crazy and my emotions were off the scale. That's why I learned how to trigger OBE's, to 'to plunge back in there and try figure things out'. Unfortunately, that realm only opened up an entirely new hamster wheel of seeking for me. There were tremendous, Earth shaking, revelations about everything else, but my question still remained: "Who/what the hell am I?"

Yeah, that's another reason why I've avoided triggering. I've already seen enough to know how little I know, and how much I would have to pay for more. So I'm just letting things ride.

My wife protected me during that time, kept the outside world at bay if you will. While this internal 'metamorphosis' was taking place. I kept going back, every night, figuratively downloading as much of the Universe as I could. I found out things that I would never repeat to any one else, and even if I spoke it, it would sound too paradoxical in contrast to the seeming reality of the physical World that everyone sees and believes in....Maya, that it would open up a can of worms that I had neither the patience or temper to see through to the end. So I never speak about it with anyone, especially people who are under the spell of Maya, which is a virtually impenetrable illusion.

Yeah, Maya is something else allright. She both conceals and reveals in ways that astound me. Big can of worms there yes sir.

You asked if you were enlightened. I heard a Sage say that if you're suffering less, and less, you are doing well. When you no longer feel the entanglement of this World (even the higher realms all of which is Maya) and you don't feel the suffering, you are making progress. If a person suffers more, then it's a good chance they're lost in Maya.

Then, I'm doing well all things considered.

Notice the overabundant use of religious metaphor and analogy in this sort of mystical discourse. "Revelation", "Maya", "liberation", "metamorphosis", enlightenment. What has changed besides the language with which they speak about the world?

a reply to: Aphorism

"Maya" is a Sanskrit word found in Hindu culture which translates to "delusion" or "illusion".

originally posted by: Aphorism
Notice the overabundant use of religious metaphor and analogy in this sort of mystical discourse. "Revelation", "Maya", "liberation", "metamorphosis", enlightenment. What has changed besides the language with which they speak about the world?

Sorry about that Clark. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!





I also use sci-fi and comic books as metaphors. Seriously though, you're not really in a position to judge whether the use of metaphor is overabundant or not, are you? As a thirsty tourist in the nation of water-drinkers, you have no basis on which to judge, other than your common sense and imagination.

Perhaps your inner Superman is dragging you kicking and screaming to your own initiation, Clark.

a reply to: BlueMule

i am inclined to agree with aphorism. it feels to me like the mystical terminology used here never means the same thing twice in a row...and all of the meanings are rooted in something other than the dictionary i rely on.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: BlueMule

i am inclined to agree with aphorism. it feels to me like the mystical terminology used here never means the same thing twice in a row...and all of the meanings are rooted in something other than the dictionary i rely on.

Well, look at it like this. If you were blind from birth, would reading big books about colors with your fingertips let you see a sunset? No of course not. You can't look up the colors in a dictionary for the blind and then expect to see.

But what the books might do is try to convey the beauty of a sunset with an experience you might be familiar with. Poetry! Music!

Different people have different cultural metaphors and lingo and so they will draw on different symbols, terms, stories, etc. But the comparative fields of discipline can cut through the cultural and temporal differences.

a reply to: BlueMule

Well, look at it like this. If you were blind from birth, would reading big books about colors with your fingertips let you see a sunset? No of course not. You can't look up the colors in a dictionary for the blind and then expect to see.

i would expect to never see a color in my entire life unless gifted with an implant.

But what the books might do is try to convey the beauty of a sunset with an experience you might be familiar with. Poetry! Music!

music doesnt show me colors, and poetry doesnt play music for me. you are talking about emotions that are shared across such experiences.

Different people have different cultural metaphors and lingo and so they will draw on different symbols, terms, stories, etc. But the comparative fields of discipline can cut through the cultural and temporal differences.

might i suggest compiling a list of terms and their definitions? a guide to the anatomy of mysticism. might be helpful.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

music doesnt show me colors, and poetry doesnt play music for me. you are talking about emotions that are shared across such experiences.

By the same token, words won't show you beyond the veil of Maya, and so words can't get you far! The dictionary just ain't gonna cut it.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: TzarChasm

music doesnt show me colors, and poetry doesnt play music for me. you are talking about emotions that are shared across such experiences.

By the same token, words won't show you beyond the veil of Maya, and so words can't get you far! The dictionary just ain't gonna cut it.

if the words that science uses to explain this world are not good enough to explain whatever lies beyond the veil, i guess the "beyond" this veil is one thing we will never have in common. i dont count that as a loss.

originally posted by: Aphorism
Notice the overabundant use of religious metaphor and analogy in this sort of mystical discourse. "Revelation", "Maya", "liberation", "metamorphosis", enlightenment. What has changed besides the language with which they speak about the world?

Who is this 'they' you're referring to? Another stereotype in your head? Anyway, interesting non-point you have there. Metamorphosis is not a religious or mystical term, nor is Revelation, Or liberation. But all these words are useful to have in one's tool box. No need to create new ones. The great thing about analogies and metaphors is that, regardless of their origins, they can be applied to any subject. Didn't you know this?

But since you struggle looking beyond religion, spirituality and all your other stereotypical nonsense which stands between you and clarity, I shall replace them.
Change Liberation to Freedom
Revelation to Discovery
Maya to Veil, curtain or Mask to name a few. Even though I prefer Maya.
Metamorphosis to Change
And Enlightenment to 'Waking the hell up.'

How's that?
I much prefer the words I used though. Needs less explaining and I'm all for convenience. After all, this is just an entertaining forum..there's no need to create new authentic languages to get a point across. Which is why analogies and metaphors are so convenient. Come on Aphorism, please tell me you already knew that. I'm starting to get concerned about you.

..

a reply to: BlueMule

Yes we often use metaphors to paint a picture we describe ideas we have in our imagination.

a reply to: Visitor2012

Yes your metaphors belong in the abstract world. That's the only place they can persist.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule

Yes we often use metaphors to paint a picture we describe ideas we have in our imagination.

We also often use metaphors and analogies to explain complex subjects to little children.