Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

I see so much about this topic on ATS, and for good reason. But I see so much hate directed toward Israel when discussing this topic and can't believe it is simply bigoted. But it often seems that way. In this world where we are supposed to accept everyone...I have to believe that jewish people are also accepted. So...why so many anti-Israel threads?

I consider myself a quite intelligent and logical thinker, though not extremely educated on this topic. I personally believe that if there is a good and a bad side...Israel is the good and Palestine the bad. But I'm open for facts and some opinions. I would REALLY like to avoid heated, hateful and bigoted responses. This is what I believe I "know" and some of what I "think" about the whole Israel and Palestine situation.

I believe that there is no Palestine and that it is simply a made up area...at least officially.
I believe that Israel hates Palestine because they attack them.
I believe Palestine hates Israel simply because they exist.
I believe that most every time there is a "peace"...Palestine breaks it.
I believe the leaders in Palestine want the fighting to continue to keep them in power.
I believe Israel wouldn't wage war if Palestine would stop attacking.
And finally...based upon all this...I believe Palestine is the aggressor and Israel is simply defending itself. Maybe aggressively...but still defending.

So...am I right? And if not...please provide facts that dispute these beliefs, I'm willing to hear and consider them. I can be convinced one way or the other as I know I'm not up on the history. But...facts and logic rule...not emotion and spewed BS political double-speak.

Fire away!

If you shoot or bomb other people, they tend to get angry. Ditto if you steal land by force and cut off their food supply. That is as simple as I comprehend the situation. I'm not taking sides.

All flags and no replies?

I believe both sides are as bad as each other

Israel has better weapons so you see more deaths on the Palestinians side

a reply to: skunkape23
I knew I would have to...so I'm adding another: I believe that the taking of land by Israel occurred after being attacked and even then...in order to create a buffer to avoid further, easy attacks.

originally posted by: Thefarmer
All flags and no replies?

I was quite surprised to see so many stars within minutes of posting. What was that about???

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Thefarmer
All flags and no replies?

I was quite surprised to see so many stars within minutes of posting. What was that about???[/quote
It's a conspiracy, man. Couldn't possibly be a bunch of drunken insomniacs.

Please don't think I'm calling you a sheeple. Sadly your beliefs are those of a sheeple. You have access to the internet so please use some time to do a little ( & I do mean little) research on this issue & you may be surprised by your blinkered views.
It takes two to Tango.

originally posted by: supamoto
Please don't think I'm calling you a sheeple. Sadly your beliefs are those of a sheeple. You have access to the internet so please use some time to do a little ( & I do mean little) research on this issue & you may be surprised by your blinkered views.
It takes two to Tango.

No offence taken. The internet is nothing but opinions...I'm looking for facts where I can question the source. And yes, it does take two to Tango, but that doesn't mean both (or either) wanted to.

In short its a worldclass cluster# .. idiocy in action ..

Few days ago Israel agreed in cease fire if palestinians stop firing rockets to Israel, Hamas refused the cease fire. So what can they do to protect their owns ? There is no good solutions for Israel its just bad or worse decisions it can make.
Its a jihad, those families who really care about their children more than religion are getting out, those who want to fight stays.
Sad situation and as long as Hamas is ruling Palestine there will be no peace in the area.

I feel bad for both sides. Fact is, if you attack Israel, they are going to hurt you back. I will not comment on the right or wrong. Just the facts. I realize there are complex issues being dealt with. Who is the bad guy when both sides are in the wrong?

originally posted by: Expat888
In short its a worldclass cluster# .. idiocy in action ..

Yes...obviously. But I must be missing something. ATS has some very smart people but most here seem to hate Israel and think they are wrong. But I never see much of a logical reason. It is usually emotion and "they attacked harder" or "they are evil for bombing". Which doesn't hold up as facts as to why so many see them as being in the wrong. So again...logical facts why my beliefs are wrong.

You forgot to mention the fact that most of the Arab countries hate Palestine more than they hate Israel.

And I absolutely agree with you. I mean, Palestine did fire their rockets first. Of course Israel would respond and go into counter-offensive. Just because people don't want to accept that because they simply hate Jews, sorry, I meant Zionists, it doesn't change the fact that Israel have the full right to fight back. I just wonder what any other country would do if they were in the same situation as Israel were. Would they just let some country bomb them while doing nothing, or would they fight back?

And as for Israel killing innocent people on purpose, I just can't take that statement serious. Because, it's war, and in Gaza, what were people expecting when Hammas hides behind civilians.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I think good and bad are relative terms and that all of this is subject to perspective because our moral compass skews one way or the other really easily without our conscious knowledge of it.

Simply put, if someone bombs the # out of you, your family, your home then there is a good chance you will join the first extreme group that let's you go out and kill the people who hurt you...

U see four dead kids on a beach, I see dozens of friends and family members thinking its time to pick up a gun and take to the streets.

Its who we are, all of us, everyone from America to Zimbabwe is just waiting for an excuse or justification to kill other people...

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Am being polite today .. after what witnessed during two years running a clinic in gaza putting victims of israeli atrocities back together and burying the ones that died at israeli hands will admit I have no love for israel and they need tried for warcrimes and crimes against humanity..

Meh .. time for a drink got me remembering things Id rather forget now ..

Do your research and decide for yourself dont let the views of either side influence you ..

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I think good and bad are relative terms and that all of this is subject to perspective because our moral compass skews one way or the other really easily without our conscious knowledge of it.

Simply put, if someone bombs the # out of you, your family, your home then there is a good chance you will join the first extreme group that let's you go out and kill the people who hurt you...

U see four dead kids on a beach, I see dozens of friends and family members thinking its time to pick up a gun and take to the streets.

Its who we are, all of us, everyone from America to Zimbabwe is just waiting for an excuse or justification to kill other people...

Understood and agreed. That is who we are.

Directed to all: So from what I'm hearing so far...my beliefs based upon my limited "expertise" are correct? Where are the posters who so eagerly attack Israel? Come on guys...I have no agenda and my opinion is solely based on my limited knowledge of the facts. Let me hear your logic and convince me.

originally posted by: Expat888
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Am being polite today .. after what witnessed during two years running a clinic in gaza putting victims of israeli atrocities back together and burying the ones that died at israeli hands will admit I have no love for israel and they need tried for warcrimes and crimes against humanity..

Meh .. time for a drink got me remembering things Id rather forget now ..

Do your research and decide for yourself don't let the views of either side influence you ..

I understand your feelings and how that experience would affect you. And this isn't meant to sound mean or attacking...but...if all you are saying is that Israel is fighting for their lives and that you don't like HOW they are doing so, that is only opinion and doesn't change facts. I'll go this far: FACT - Israel is fighting for their lives using brutal means. Which while a fact...isn't by definition...wrong.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Here is one good example of where some of the hostility towards Israel comes from...
The Wire

A U.S. Senate subcommittee approved a spending bill providing $351 million for Israel's Iron Dome program, double what the Obama administration requested.

"It works," said Sen. Dick Durbin, chairman of the appropriations subcommittee.

The missile defense system has largely been credited with helping prevent a single Israeli casualty in the country's ongoing conflict with Hamas, shooting down an estimated 1,000 rockets fired into the country from Gaza with over 90 percent accuracy.

Its a pretty obvious source of frustration....

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Not currently mentioned so far is the shafting of the Palestinians.

Firstly there was the;

McMahon Agreement. Yes it was.

Shortly thereafter there was the;

Balfour Declaration. And I'm not too surprised the Sh!t hit the fan after this.

In a nutshell the Palestinians were Royally shafted and actually do have an axe to grind.

Kind Regards
Myselfaswell

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Israel is NOT fighting for its life . Its committing systematic genocide and crimes against humanity .. israel has no regard for international laws and accords .. its a rogue state ..