Israel to Charge Three Jews with Palestinian Murder

originally posted by: bbracken677

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: lostbook

Umm...you kinda forgot about the missile launchings into Israeli cities from the Gaza by Hamas. There would not have been a huge blowback but for that.

You forgot about the years of denigration and humiliation and oppression by the Israelis. If not for that there would be no terrorists. There just wouldn't.

Ahh... and the early attacks on Israel, the attempts to wipe them out, the invasions ... this can go on forever. As long as you have someone to initiate attacks, you will have someone retaliating.

Besides, were we not talking about this instance? You suggested that Israel initiated this sequence totally disregarding the missile attacks. So...let's just be totally disingenuous eh?

No. Take a good hard look at the situation. I understand that there are terrorists in the Palestinian territories and that there is a need for security and action at times. I understand that there have been wars waged against Israel and that leaders of surrounding countries have stated publicly that they want Israel wiped off the face of the earth, but this is different...it's a simple matter.

Israel treats the Palestinian people like dirt. They always have. They settle on their lands and don't give them equal rights and treat them like animals. This is what needs to stop. This is the only Issue here. `If Israel treated you like they do the Palestinians, you would be a terrorist too. That's truth. You would fight back with everything you could. As do the Palestinians do now.

One of life's great truths is that two wrongs don't make a right and treat others as you would like to be treated. The Israeli's have forgotten that lesson. They have forgotten the lessons of WW2 and the Nazi's. Now they find themselves in a position of power over a people and instead of taking the high road and being humane, they have taken the low road. That's it. Simple.

a reply to: amazing

Well stated, and with more thought than I usually run into with the Israeli/Palestinian discourse

The only problem I find with your response is that Palestinians live alongside, below and above Israeli Jews in virtually every jewish city in Israel. While I agree that, in general, Palestinians often get the short side of the stick, they often do nothing to help themselves.

If they reported where Hamas was hiding their weapons, if they reported that a missile battery was being set up at location x etc etc they would go a long way towards being accepted. As in so many majority/minority situations the minority often does everything it can to retreat from the majority, and yet at the same time expect acceptance.

If the palestinians are not willing to help themselves, then who is? Who should?

This is a highly complex situation and has been for ... a long time. There will be no single solution that is compatible with both sides, unfortunately. If there is, I certainly fail to see it.

I mainly take exception to those whose attack on Israel in these forums amount to bigoted uninformed BS. I would also be more likely to take the side of the palestinians if they rejected the Hamas and Hezbollah attempts to continue fomenting war and chaos. The fact that they do not implies a support and, once again, a failure to help themselves.

There is a horrible and complicated dynamic involved with the palestinians and groups such as Hamas. On the one hand, Hamas and Hezbollah do a lot of good things for the Palestinians, but then turn around and commit atrocities that result in the loss of life and home. It is intentional (the part played by Hamas) and smart. Unfortunately the common palestinian does not see the duplicity involved. If they do...then they deserve what they get. If not, then they are just one more casualty in a thousands year conflict.

a reply to: amazing

I like to, occasionally, construct mental exercises to achieve an understanding of some human behaviors I see.

Dunno where you live, but I live in Dallas. South Dallas has some areas that are predominantly black. Not just black, but poor, ignorant and black. You could say the three strikes of society, in a manner of speaking.

I do not see these people strapping explosives on their bodies and blowing up the more affluent North Dallas. I do not see them launching missile attacks either.

IF they did...and if this continued for decade after decade.. What exactly would be the response of the authorities to such attacks? What should be the response of the authorities? What would and what should be the response of those being attacked by suicide bombers and missiles?

Severe pause for thought...blows my mind to consider such a situation existing in the US.

a reply to: bbracken677

Well thought out reply, I see what you're saying but I see one thing wrong with your thought that the Palestinians, should report Hamas and where they are etc. I think it's more complicated than that. Let's say we both lived in Palestinian territories and we thought we were being oppressed and there wasn't much of a future for us. Not much job opportunity, our relatives just had their home torn down to make way for Jewish settlers and we can't leave the country...We really have this hatred for the Israeli government and people, because to us they are an oppressive occupation force.

Remember that perception is often as important as reality. That's what we would perceive to be reality. So then this guy who has been giving us some money to pay rent and helping us out with food, says. He I'm really going to stick it to these scumbags...stay inside there, I'm going to set up a rocket and blast them. And we would say...No? Yes? A guy with the balls to fight back against the oppression and the aggressors,..a real freedom fighter.

In a world with no hope...what else is there but to fight back?

So you can see the problem and why the Palestinian people both work with and tolerate Hamas?

Now how do you undermine that mentality and undermine terrorists like Hamas? If the Palestinian people didn't think they were being oppressed and didn't rely on Hamas help and didn't see the need for "freedom fighters"...well that would undermine the terrorists, no?

Taken a step further how do you give the Palestinian people the thought that they don't need Hamas? By good will and easing restrictions and stopping the settlements and giving them human rights and not killing innocent civilians and so on.

You can see that the Ball is in Israel's court. It always has been. They have US support political, monetarily and logistical. They can end this and start fresh.

originally posted by: TerrorAlertRed
www.digitalattackmap.com...

sneaky little space plane

a reply to: lostbook

What am I looking at?

a reply to: amazing

I agree with you, and have considered the situation you posted.

I (who, of course, is not in that situation) would not be strapping bombs on my back to blow myself up in the hopes of taking out a few jews..

I would also fear the results of what that guy was going to do, knowing what the response was the last time such happened.

So that puts me in the hypothetical situation of: either I would pick up arms and fight along side Hamas (which, is the more likely) or I would try to stop the bloodshed of my people by reporting his actions. I would also consider this guy suspect when he located his missile battery right next to or inside a school.

But...far as I know not one palestinian ever reports the activities of Hamas....

Israel cannot just "take it on the chin" and continue to be suicide bombed, missiled (not a word lol) etc without taking some kind of hard line. After decades and decades of responses to these types of activities, they become more and more severe in response.

You could liken the Israelis psychology to that of the Russians prior to WWII... Everybody and their grandmother seemed to have taken a shot at invading Russia at some time or other. This results in a form of paranoia that exists at the basic level of the culture in question.

Screwed up situation all around. No one is innocent. I mainly respond to those who try to pin it all on Israel, since that seems to have become the fashion statement of late. Not the case... nor is it the case of it's all on the palestinians.

I believe the palestinians get more support economically than anyone on a per capita basis. They should take advantage of the gas that is supposed to be present in the Strip and help themselves.

Now I have piqued my own curiosity regarding foreign aid to palestinians... going to do a bit of research.

a reply to: bbracken677

Hmm... The palestinians receive more aid in total, per capita, than any other people/nation in the world.

The US contributes the most (dammit) with the EU coming in a close 2nd and various other countries also contributing as well. Oddly...lumping all the Middle East countries together results in one of the lesser amounts contributed.

Seems all that Arab oil money isn't enough to help out a bro... You would think that Arab countries would be the principle (or should be) supporters of the palestinians. Far from it.....

The US contributes more to palestinians than they do to Israel. And yet, Israel is an ally and palestinians cheered when the Twin Towers came down. Imagine that...

originally posted by: bbracken677

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: buster2010

Yeah, forget about rule of law.

What about those who killed the 3 jewish kids?

Has Israel found them yet?

Do Palestinians know who did it? More then likely and they are not saying and will not turn over their own for trial.

Seeing how Israel is claiming that Hamas was responsible isn't the burden of proof on them?

a reply to: buster2010

fantastic thread!

a reply to: buster2010

Seeing as how the Palestinians are supposed to be self-run (Gaza Strip) and self-policed, shouldn't they be looking into it? There is a palestinian leadership... but I do not see capturing the murderers of 3 jewish teens to be high on their list of priorities, even before the bombing commenced.

We all know the palestinians are not going to do anything to stop Hamas from doing what they do... What do you call that? Criminal complicity? Or perhaps terminal stupidity since it is the palestinian people who always pay for Hamas's actions. Yeah...terminal stupidity. The only time that a whole group of people can be said to have made the Darwin list.