Christianity & Hobby Lobby

originally posted by: FlyersFan

And you are free to get abortificants elsewhere.

Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.

BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances. And they have a right to believe it's wrong. But again ... those who would push their view on the Hobby Lobby family are the ones who are trying to infringe upon the rights of others. The Hobby Lobby family doesn't interfere with anyones right to obtain abortificants or contraceptives.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: dawnstar

so what has been accomplished? certainly not the rights of any person!!

What's been accomplished?

The Right Wing half of the USSC showed their true colors and religious bias.

LOL

They actually upheld the law and the Constitution.

Something the "Left Wing half" hates with a wild passion.

nope...the women were forced to live by the religious beliefs of the owners, if they wanted to continue to work there....show me where that is in the constitution....

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances.

I don't really care, but where are your science based facts to back it up?

Its very simple. Individuals rights have been denied/taken away because of someone else's religious belief. Religious belief has been forced on them.

This is violation of church and state. There is no other position.

originally posted by: rupertg
My Satanist boss told me I had to sacrifice my dog to Satan or look for a new job. Are you happy now Hobby Lobby?

Free market...depends on how much you love the job over the dog. Should a vegan restaurant be able to hire only vegetarians? I saw an "Undercover Diner" episode where the vegan restaurant owner fired a waiter for eating a hamburger on his break in sight of customers. Were his rights violated?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances.

I don't really care, but where are your science based facts to back it up?

Its very simple. Individuals rights have been denied/taken away because of someone else's religious belief. Religious belief has been forced on them.

This is violation of church and state. There is no other position.

It's very simple. Nobody's rights were taken away from them because nobody has a right to subsidized stuff. You keep saying that the rights of the HL employees were taken from them but you cannot explain how. I don't think you know how yourself other than that's what you think if anyone cannot have their birth control paid for by someone else. If someone is not forced to provide you with what you need or want, your right to that thing is not violated. If I am not forced to buy you that computer you post on and you have to buy it yourself, that is not a violation of your right to free speech.

It is not a violation of separation of church and state. Hobby Lobby is not the state and the state, according to the first amendment, has no business telling people they have to do stuff in violation of their religion.

This decision is actually in support of the separation of church and state because it upheld the idea that the government should not force people to do things against their religion. That clause goes both ways--the church should not dictate what the government does and the government should not dictate religious beliefs.

From Scientific America: Fact or Fiction?: Emergency Contraceptives Cause Abortions

It’s unclear why the known medical science behind these contraceptives did not seem to bear on the Supreme Court’s decision. In the case of Plan B, it’s evident that the contraceptive does not violate Hobby Lobby’s religious beliefs about abortion. Research also suggests that the other contraceptives don’t conflict with such religious beliefs either. This means that, at least in part, Hobby Lobby based its argument on scientific ignorance. Medical organizations such as the ACOG conveyed the science during the trial, but to no avail—at least for the justices rendering the majority opinion. “We made these points every step of the way,” Conry says, “but the Supreme Court decided on religion, not science.”

www.scientificamerican.com...

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: dawnstar

so what has been accomplished? certainly not the rights of any person!!

What's been accomplished?

The Right Wing half of the USSC showed their true colors and religious bias.

LOL

They actually upheld the law and the Constitution.

Something the "Left Wing half" hates with a wild passion.

nope...the women were forced to live by the religious beliefs of the owners, if they wanted to continue to work there....show me where that is in the constitution....

ROFLOL

The "Women" employees can get the "coverage" by other means (and paid for) according to HHS.

That was actually cited in the Court ruling.

Look it up.

No new laws were made.

Just a "reversal" of some broken laws.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances. And they have a right to believe it's wrong. But again ... those who would push their view on the Hobby Lobby family are the ones who are trying to infringe upon the rights of others. The Hobby Lobby family doesn't interfere with anyones right to obtain abortificants or contraceptives.

so what?...they are a profit making corporation that buy goods from China, who by law has FORCED ABORTIONS...but Hobby Lobby, Christians, and the supreme court are ok with that...why?...because here in America, God owns women's bodies...just ask a christian

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances. And they have a right to believe it's wrong. But again ... those who would push their view on the Hobby Lobby family are the ones who are trying to infringe upon the rights of others. The Hobby Lobby family doesn't interfere with anyones right to obtain abortificants or contraceptives.

so what?...they are a profit making corporation that buy goods from China, who by law has FORCED ABORTIONS...but Hobby Lobby, Christians, and the supreme court are ok with that...why?...because here in America, God owns women's bodies...just ask a christian

No, because the US Supreme Court is not in the business of upholding the Chinese Constitution nor does the US Constitution apply in China. The SCOTUS decision was in standing with the principles of eh First Amendment.

I don't even believe in god and I find that last bit silly. HL did not want to own nor thought they own nor cares who owns the bodies of the women--they just don't want to pay for certain stuff and, silly as their belief may be, they have that right under the first amendment.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Annee
Abortificants. LOL --- only in the belief of some whacked out fundamental Christians.
BELIEF ---- NOT FACT. Makes it even worse.

Those four abortificants do cause newly conceived children to be aborted. So they are abortificants in many instances. And they have a right to believe it's wrong. But again ... those who would push their view on the Hobby Lobby family are the ones who are trying to infringe upon the rights of others. The Hobby Lobby family doesn't interfere with anyones right to obtain abortificants or contraceptives.

so what?...they are a profit making corporation that buy goods from China, who by law has FORCED ABORTIONS...but Hobby Lobby, Christians, and the supreme court are ok with that...why?...because here in America, God owns women's bodies...just ask a christian

No, because the US Supreme Court is not in the business of upholding the Chinese Constitution nor does the US Constitution apply in China. The SCOTUS decision was in standing with the principles of eh First Amendment.

I don't even believe in god and I find that last bit silly. HL did not want to own nor thought they own nor cares who owns the bodies of the women--they just don't want to pay for certain stuff and, silly as their belief may be, they have that right under the first amendment.

first amendment??...you do know that applies to human individuals, right?....where are "corporate rights" mentioned in the bill of rights?...tell me the amendment, I don't see it

a reply to: xuenchen

Just a "reversal" of some broken laws.

Nope, not that either.

Just a new precedent set. That precedent being that, for the first time, for profit corporations, fictional legal entities, are deemed to have "sincerely held beliefs" that allow them (corporations) "religious exemption" from the law.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: xuenchen

Just a "reversal" of some broken laws.

Nope, not that either.

Just a new precedent set. That precedent being that, for the first time, for profit corporations, fictional legal entities, are deemed to have "sincerely held beliefs" that allow them (corporations) "religious exemption" from the law.

Yup it is that.

The original "precedent" was set when HHS and IRS gave exemptions and discriminated.

Many exemptions are unconstitutional and very discriminatory.

There's plenty conflicts of interests too.

Obama.Care as we (never really) knew it will be dismantled by the Courts.

Obama.Care has never really been implemented as a whole.

The ACA itself is an illusion.

originally posted by: windword

Just a new precedent set. That precedent being that, for the first time, for profit corporations, fictional legal entities, are deemed to have "sincerely held beliefs" that allow them (corporations) "religious exemption" from the law.

Honestly, what I think is its partly deliberate retaliation against all the gay rights and marriage equality cases that have been won.

And I think the bias Catholic judges have intention for Christian businesses to be able to legally deny serving gays through religious exemption.

There are several cases of religious exemption from serving gays in the courts right now.

a reply to: Annee

that is needed.
if you as a christian business owner do not want to make
a cake for a homosexual wedding then you should not have to
do so , or at least spike it with a strong laxative.

a reply to: spirited75

I guess you don't care about my opinions either since I am beyond that child bearing age also!
But one thing you don't seem to consider some of us have daughters and some of us have daughter i n laws that we care about!
We don't want to see our loved one's health endangered because the option to use birth control has been taken away from them! We don't want them having so many babies that it effects their health and well being. We don't want them living in forced proverty because of someone's religious views!
And we have a valid reason to have this concern!
I know you shouldn't have to pay for.....
but I have a feeling that even if the christian right got their way and no funding whatsoever came from the gov't and no insurance covered it they would still be griping because some women were still financially able to pay for them with their own money.
And as far as I am concerned if you shouldn't have to pay for this then I shouldn't have to pay for that! And that could be any medical procedure or treatment!

originally posted by: dawnstar

I guess you don't care about my opinions either since I am beyond that child bearing age also!
But one thing you don't seem to consider some of us have daughters and some of us have daughter i n laws that we care about!

And some of us have Granddaughters in high school.

I've experienced a lot in my life time. I know what it was like before the Feminist movement, and I know about Christian dominance prior to the atheist movement which began in the 50s.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Annee

that is needed.
if you as a christian business owner do not want to make
a cake for a homosexual wedding then you should not have to
do so , or at least spike it with a strong laxative.

If you bake wedding cakes. You bake wedding cakes.

That's how it works.

a reply to: Annee

and I was a member of one of those fundamentalist pentecostal church for quite a few years. I have a pretty good idea what their beliefs are.
Some of the people who are supporting this decision obviously don't believe the same!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: tsingtao

they should be taught where to get them. maybe start a collective and share them. someones dad has too have given one of them a credit card, right? i wouldn't say sell them coz that would be capitalism, they have to give them away to whomever wants them.

so you think we should teach the kids to take advantage of their parents trust and abuse the credit cards they were given and max the thing out on birth control for themselves and friends?? Thus forcing their parents to buy birth control possibly instead of feeding the family?
I am sorry but I am sitting here and wondering!!
This seems to be a much bigger transgression than hobby lobby just including birth control in their insurance coverage!!!!

is there any limit to the stupidity people will spout to support their "beliefs"???

sorry, there is no sarcasm smilie.

i'm sure if dad reads his monthly CC bill, it would stop pretty quick.