Separation of Church and State

a reply to: stormson

please show me what "rights" you get from your "creator" and why it took the foundation of america from them to come into existance?

What part of our RIGHTS come from the creator is someone missing ?

Government can't give people rights they are innately born with.

Willfully ignore the linked material ?

Sounds like it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

your rights come from the gov you live under. they are granted by the gov, and defended by the weapons and lives of the military of that gov.

No they don't. They NEVER have.

Government is not the creator.

Which is explains quite a lot about this country. Since all people want to do is kill GOD to replace it with government just like the quoted comment did.

a reply to: neo96

"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"

Where do get an endorsement for "church" from "Laws of Nature" and "Nature's God"?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: stormson

please show me what "rights" you get from your "creator" and why it took the foundation of america from them to come into existance?

What part of our RIGHTS come from the creator is someone missing ?

Government can't give people rights they are innately born with.

Willfully ignore the linked material ?

Sounds like it.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

your rights come from the gov you live under. they are granted by the gov, and defended by the weapons and lives of the military of that gov.

No they don't. They NEVER have.

Government is not the creator.

Which is explains quite a lot about this country. Since all people want to do is kill GOD to replace it with government just like the quoted comment did.

then why didnt the blacks have equal rights till the gov gave it to them?

so you base your "god given rights" idea on words written by men two hundred years ago? what about the thousands of years before them? where were your "god given rights" then?

which god gave you these rights?

dropped in the woods, naked, would nature respect these rights of yours?

why dont other countries respect these "god-given rights"? why is it that if you move to cuba, your "god given right" to free speech magically disappears?

a reply to: stormson

Yo ?

What came first ?

God and religion.

Or the new and improved version of the same thing, the men of government playing GOD ?

Hey MentorsRiddle, you might want to do some research.

In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371).

In a letter to John Adams, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

"The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." - Jefferson in a letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanac

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." - James Madison in a letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." - James Madison in a 1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?" - John Adams

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst." - Thomas Paine

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." - Thomas Paine

monotheism.us...

The NWO has to sell bull# of all kinds to keep us immobilized and frightened.

Inventing some new doctrine that never existed before to force conformity to the desires of the Illuminati oligarchs is a perfect strategy for the gullible.

On the plus side many have woken up to the oligarchs agenda and refuse to play the game.

The doctrine or separation of church and state is a fabrication of blatantly liberal, anti-Christian, dishonest, activist judges. In fact, the words,"separation of church and state" are only words taken out of context from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. They exist nowhere in the laws of our nation.

Earlier, I said I would prove that the doctrine of separation of church and state is a scam, and that I would do so with one word; just one word. That is easily done. On a recent radio show, I handed a co-host a copy of the U.S. Constitution and asked him to read the First Amendment out loud over the air. He began to read, but I stopped him after the first word. "That's enough. You have read enough. You don't have to read further. You have settled the debate already," I said.

What was that one word that ended the debate over separation of church and state. That word is "Congress."

Read it for yourself. The First Amendment says that congress shall make no law establishing a religion. It doesn't say that states cannot establish a religion or observe religious holidays. It doesn't say that cities, counties, or school districts cannot show respect for the Bible or Christianity. The First Amendment doesn't imply in even the vaguest way that it is unconstitutional for a city to erect a manger scene in the town square at Christmas or for a school teacher to offer up a prayer to Almighty God at a graduation ceremony or before daily classes begin. You cannot get that out of the First Amendment, even if you stretch.

It's right there, plain as day. The First Amendment only limits Congress; no one else.

The Separation of Church and State Hoax

..."separation of church and state" is really a pretext for the imposition of a State Religion, i.e. Illuminism, or secularism. "The separation of church and state argument for removing all traces of Biblical teaching from public life and public land is a gigantic fraud. Why? Because there is no separation of church and state. Government religion is a fact in the United States. What is wanted by the government religion adherents is not separation of church and state, but exclusive rights for their religion. This is why attempts are being made to destroy Christianity."

Religion by definition is "knowing and obeying God." The government religion in fact is anti-religion, the denial of God, i.e. materialism, Illuminism, Freemasonry, and ultimately Satanism.

Court Unmasks Secularism as State "Religion"

The action which upheld the separation of church and state was in response to a suit by the American Civil Liberties Union, It is part of a nationwide campaign to eliminate all references to America's Judeo-Christian heritage from the public sphere. The ACLU is a Communist front dedicated to abolishing the United States and establishing a totalitarian world government. They are following a satanic blueprint laid out in "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." www.savethemales.ca...

originally posted by: Murgatroid
The NWO has to sell bull# of all kinds to keep us immobilized and frightened. Inventing some new doctrine that never existed before to force conformity to the desires of the Illuminati oligarchs is a perfect strategy for the gullible. On the plus side many have woken up to the oligarchs agenda and refuse to play the game.

Really.

You need to take a good long look at the history of this country.

From the Constitution of the State of Illinois established in 1818 - almost 2 centuries ago.

SECTION 3. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be guaranteed, and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship.

originally posted by: CryHavoc
You need to take a good long look at the history of this country.

Been there, done that...

I have found non-fiction to be FAR more credible.

The TRUTH is far more palatable.

And this ain't it BTW: monotheism.us...

The truth is ALWAYS covered-up by lies.

Finding the truth sometimes requires believing the opposite of what propaganda is telling us...

"History is more or less bunk." ~ Henry Ford

"The falsification of history has done more to impede human development than any one thing known to mankind" - Rousseau

“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”

“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac

As another man without a high school diploma, I discovered many years ago that the "educated" class is generally not educated at all, it is mis-educated. The whole purpose of American (perhaps all "western") "higher education" is obviously to bring minds into lock step with "The Agenda." As a general rule, the less official American education a person has been exposed to, the greater his/her ration of common sense.

"Education" is Spiritual Suicide

a reply to: neo96

Man came first. Man created God.

The one and only thing we ALL have in common is that we are human and we all inhabit the secular plane, and that is how government should operate. For all the people. As for what the people do, that's up to them. Keep religion out of government and government out of religion.

This argument is clearly a Christian crock and is really getting tedious.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
The one and only thing we ALL have in common is that we are human and we all inhabit the secular plane, and that is how government should operate. For all the people. As for what the people do, that's up to them. Keep religion out of government and government out of religion.

This argument is clearly a Christian crock and is really getting tedious.

Oh, star for you.

Being a human in this world is not our choice. Choosing to believe in a god is.

Government is not a faith belief.

originally posted by: stormson

christianity "has ceased to be a threat to science and progress" you say?

please explain the anti-evolution crowd dumbing down science classes across the country.

anti evolutionists are in every organized religion, there are also avid anti evolutionists in islam. but i've never heard of any devout christian group which would behead their opponents in the name of christ, or dump them down a cliff, or firing a bullet in their heads or burying them up to their throat and stone them to death. i'd be grateful if that crowd of christians were the only trouble of this planet, seriously

a reply to: jamsession

That crowd of Christians are kept in restraint because of the laws of this country. Look at how they try to treat homosexuals to get an idea. Do you think that the Westboro Baptists would have just gone and picketed funerals if our laws for fundamentalism were a bit more lax? The problem isn't just Christianity though, it's organized religion and the fundamentalism that it spawns that is the problem.

originally posted by: jamsession
but i've never heard of any devout christian group which would behead their opponents in the name of christ, or dump them down a cliff, or firing a bullet in their heads or burying them up to their throat and stone them to death.

Wow, seriously? You've never heard of the Inquisition that lasted 6 centuries or the Salem Witch Trials? All Christian- backed murder. Every bit of it.

a reply to: CryHavoc

You clearly have God and religion confused.

The two have NOTHING in common and in fact are complete opposites.

The source of this lie is religion itself and yet people are still gullible enough to believe it.

God is NOT religious nor is he the one behind all false religions.

That would be the imposter: AKA "the god of THIS world".

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
Christians were the ones being burned at the stake, they weren't holding the matches. Pope Pious (sp?) ordered more Christians murdered in a single afternoon than all the emperors of Rome COMBINED under 200 some years of Roman persecutions.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
One pope in one afternoon had more Christians killed than the entire Roman Empire killed in a few centuries of diligent determined persecutions.

Since when did the one institution on Earth which has mass-murdered more Bible-believing Christians than any other institution, or any of its minions, become authoritative “Christian” sources of morality? jamesflory.wordpress.com...

a reply to: MentorsRiddle

So the majority of the Founding Fathers believed in God.

Good.

The 1st Amendment clearly points out that a central state religion will not be enacted.

Why all the hub-bub?

a reply to: beezzer

Simple really...

It is a fabrication, hoax, fraud, and a scam.

Gullible people believe it to be the truth.

Deny ignorance?

Yeah right...

"...the introduction and application of the “Separation Between Church and State” doctrine into the fabric of American culture is one of the greatest acts of fraud and deception ever to be perpetrated upon the American people. The doctrine is nothing more than a legal fiction brought into existence only by committing tremendous violence against the founders’ original vision for the country.

The BIG Lie: “Separation of Church and State” (Part 15)

The doctrine or separation of church and state is a fabrication of blatantly liberal, anti-Christian, dishonest, activist judges. In fact, the words,"separation of church and state" are only words taken out of context from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson. They exist nowhere in the laws of our nation.

The Separation of Church and State Hoax

..."separation of church and state" is a gigantic fraud. Why? Because there is no separation of church and state. Government religion is a fact in the United States.

Court Unmasks Secularism as State "Religion"

"...the separation of church and state as understood today is a total fraud. It seems obvious that Founding Fathers vision is completely opposite to that of the ACLU or the liberal courts."

What the Founders believed regarding the Separation of Church and State

"the doctrine of separation of church and state is a scam..."

The Separation of Church and State Hoax

Most political conversations now initiated, concerning the separation of church and state, claim that the separation they speak of is based upon the U.S. Constitution. In reality, this phrase is found nowhere in the Constitution; neither is their argument.

Separation of Church and State: Then and Now

So before we can discuss the constitutionally protected rights of students at school, we have to dispel this sinister myth of the so-called “separation of church and state.” Like the proverbial monster hiding in a child’s closet, the “separation of church and state” is a pure figment of the imagination that has for far too long haunted us. It’s not in our Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any other of our nation’s founding documents.

Dispelling the Church-State Separation Myth at School

Mr. Patton claims that this is not a Christian nation. Is that right? The founders who built this great nation would disagree. One hundred fifty-five of the one hundred fifty-seven men who were considered America's founders were devout Christians! Thomas Jefferson, the man who coined the phrase ‘separation of Church and state’, it seems, did not abide by his very own ‘separation of Church and state’ doctrine. The reason he did not is because there was no such thing!

The Lie of Separation of Church and State

a reply to: Murgatroid

Question for you. Regardless if you think the country was founded on separation of church and state, would you agree that is is a largely good thing and by using it, it promotes religious equality?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Very good question...

Something one RARELY sees here on ATS BTW.

Only have a few minutes but the my first thought was this:

I love analogies and this brought to mind the 9/11 incident.

Just like 9/11, we have ALL been massively deceived concerning the 'Church and State' issue.

With both issues, the real question is why are we being lied to about it?

I honestly don't know whether or not it is good or a bad thing...

What I DO know is that we have been lied to.

The real question is WHY.

Not much of an answer I know but the question needs to be answered.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Um... Ok... You managed to not answer my question and started talking about lies. The answer to my question has nothing to do with who or who isn't lying to you. It's just a simple yes or no question. Do you think that separation of church and state is a good thing and promotes religious equality?