Contrails *do* influence the weather, here is proof by NASA

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: MagicWand67

I'm not going to argue about the rest right now. This is the main point, the paper you linked clearly states

The idea proposed is to cool surface temperatures by reducing the coverage of high cirrus clouds to increase OLR.

What's to argue about?

To gain a cooling effect by reducing cirrus coverage it applies to nightime cirrus clouds.

That's the science. Ask your fellow skeptics.

Daytime cirrus clouds are beneficial to SRM. They increase the albedo and reflect sun light away from Earth causing a cooling effect.

It's only night time cirrus coverage that causes a warming effect.

I'll cite the papers if you really need me to.

a reply to: MagicWand67

What's to argue about?

The paper is not about reducing nighttime cirrus clouds. It's about the goal of reducing cirrus clouds, period.
The method described would aim to increase ice crystal size, increasing fall speed to reduce the cirrus clouds. Radiative forcing in cirrus clouds by OLR doesn't only occur at night.

ETA: You posted this in another thread www.abovetopsecret.com... so I assume you read it

The objective would not be to seed
specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background
concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses
that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount
of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the
residence time of seeding material might be on the order of
1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to
account for this.

That's not daytime production, nighttime reduction they're talking about. "Larger ice crystals" = less 'hang time'. The "modification" in your title of the link is about reduction.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Okay my mistake.

I should have said clouds in general and not specifically cirrus clouds.

a reply to: MagicWand67
Let's back up a minute. Why did you post that link titled "Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming "?

What point were you trying to make? I ask because I've seen that used to try to support the "chemtrail" 'theory'.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

The paper is about modifying cirrus clouds using additives in contrails.

Climate engineering. Seems pretty relevant to this thread topic.

a reply to: MagicWand67

The paper is about modifying cirrus clouds

Modifying in what way? To what end?

using additives in contrails

Still looking for that part. Can you show where it says that?

ETA: I see this

Since commercial airliners routinely fly in the region where cold cirrus clouds exist, it is hoped that the seeding material could either be (1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol, or (2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. The objective would not be to seed specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the residence time of seeding material might be on the order of 1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to account for this. With the delivery process already existing, this geoengineering approach may be less expensive than other proposed approaches.

iopscience.iop.org...

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
Let me first straight-out say I am not believing into "chemtrails" whatsoever but I just found something astonishing which I really didn't know:

Check

www.nasa.gov...

This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975

The other astonishing thing is that I was proven wrong with my assumption contrails would not even show up on satellite imagery.

This enhanced infrared image from NASA's Terra satellite shows a widespread outbreak of contrails over the southeastern United States during the morning of January 29, 2004.

Obviously they do as the above image shows. There is some massive cloud coverage going on caused by contrails so the idea that those affect the weather significantly is not far off.

These are not CONTRAILS. CONTRAILS do NOT show up on satellites because by their very definition they dissipate, or DISSOLVE. This is purely MIS-INFORMATION BY NASA. Those ARE CHEMTRAILS in the picture, because CHEMTRAILS, caused by GEO-ENGINEERING, contain powdered metals like barium and aluminum, which do indeed show up in satellite images, and linger in the atmosphere. CONTRAILS DO NOT LINGER IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

This is sheer stupidity and blatant ignorance. I am beginning to lose hope in this website

a reply to: MagicWand67
And this, from the paper is of the utmost importance for context

The exploratory investigation described here indicates that cirrus cloud seeding is also having the potential to fully neutralize the radiative forcing from a CO2 doubling. In addition, this approach could be relatively inexpensive if a method were developed to disperse the seeding material from commercial aircraft and the commercial airline industries were willing partners. The details of what would be the ideal ambient concentration of seeding material and how much seeding material would be needed to realize this concentration have not yet been worked out

iopscience.iop.org...

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Still looking for that part. Can you show where it says that?

Here you go

Source

2.1. Potential seeding material
.......

A pressed composite mixture of BiI3, potassium perchlorate
(KClO4), aluminum and gilsonite (a natural hydrocarbon)
would be appropriate.

2.2. Delivery mechanism
........

the seeding material could either be

(1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol,

or

(2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

And this, from the paper is of the utmost importance for context

So is the date the paper was written. 2009

I agree that quote is important. It also displays a direct link between cloud seeding and geoengineering.

a reply to: MagicWand67
Whatcha got to show it's being done now?

ETA:

It also displays a direct link between cloud seeding and geoengineering.

A proposed link. And don't confuse this with cloud seeding for rain as some will.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

I never claimed to have proof it's being done now.

I just wanted to point out the idea of altering the normal composition of jet exhaust has been proposed as being a strategy of geoengineering.

a reply to: MagicWand67
Well alrighty then.

And I just wanted to make clear that the "modification" to the cirrus was about reducing them and their impact on climate.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Cloud seeding is regulated by each individual state and the only Federal organization besides the FAA that must be notified is NOAA.

There's nothing as far as rules go that would prevent it. There's already different reasons for cloud seeding.

Removing fog around airports, inducing rain, hail prevention, increased snow pack.

Some cloud seeding uses radar, lidar and satellites to locate the best clouds to seed

Contrail cloud seeding is just another category added to the list.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

I have known this since....well....since I looked up at the sky and watched as over a period of one hour, 15 planes cover the sky with a veil of spreading contrails like cotton being unraveled over the blue background. I must admit I did think it was chemtrails at some point, but some good souls here on ATS got through to me, however that point always bugged me still, the one about contrail staying there and influencing the sun rays to either stay in or kept out..

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Well remember this other example of sulfuric acid injection into the jet exhaust for thrust augmentation.

This is another geoengineering strategy that describes adding chemicals to jet exhaust.

If either of these climate engineering techniques were being tested would it affect some contrails visually.

I think it would.




Source

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: lightedhype

I cannot help myself wondering if some days they purposely try to cover entire areas with these cirrus clouds, for whatever reasons they may have.

Reason: People have to fly to other destinations.

I wonder this because some days the contrails look so much like a grid (easier for the trails to spread + combine) and it really makes one wonder..

What is there to wonder about...Planes fly N/S/E/W, so eventually you will have to intersect at some point hence the grid pattern.

But here is a little video to help explain it easier.

And here is a little bit more for you to read and enjoy.

contrailscience.com...

Geo Engineering... for you to enjoy

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I was trying to remember that last pure blue sky I have seen. You know that super deep and vibrant blue? It must have been years. Every day there is a haze below the clouds. Every day.

Any blue in particular?

Err.. he said "super deep vibrant blue", you know... that deep sky kind of blue untainted by clouds and 'contrails'

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

I have known this since....well....since I looked up at the sky and watched as over a period of one hour, 15 planes cover the sky with a veil of spreading contrails like cotton being unraveled over the blue background. I must admit I did think it was chemtrails at some point, but some good souls here on ATS got through to me, however that point always bugged me still, the one about contrail staying there and influencing the sun rays to either stay in or kept out..

Ha ha, you mean you got pounced on by a massive flock of angry chemtrail deniers determined to put you in your place immediately?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MagicWand67

You may want to read some more of these chemtrail threads and see who does the most berating...shill and paid troll are the two favorites of the chemtrail believer crowd.

Who would pay for somebody to argue for the existence of chemtrails?