Would Jesus have hated on gays?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: adjensen

So, where in the Gospels does Jesus say that the traditional Hebrew teaching on homosexuality was wrong? Nowhere. That is an indication that he did not disagree with it.

IF I may interject here...



The traditional teaching was to kill the gay person...



And he did not agree with killing anyone... and since he didn't technically mention homosexuality in any straightforward sense... Theres no reason to say he had an issue with it...



And he wasn't a very observant jew either... I think you know that brother...

Yea you are wrong there. Jesus was a killer and agreed with it. He not only preached suffering but he got a bunch of folks to die for him. However you probaly just don't accept the part of the bible where his followers die and continue to die.

a reply to: deadeyedick

I think I just smoke different stuff then you do...

a reply to: beezzer

Just because it isn't in the Gospels or the New Testament, doesn't mean that it is an admission of wrongness.

I think that, if that particular teaching was wrong, something would have been said about it. People seem to forget that when Christ addressed the Law (the actual Torah, not the Talmud,) he tightened the application --adultery wasn't simply having sex with a woman, it could be thinking about having sex with her.

If there was a whole class of people that were being treated unjustly under the Law, he'd have said something. He didn't, he let it stand.

1) God does not create people to be an abomination. God creates people. Ergo, there must be a reason why God created people who are gay.

God's ways are not our ways, so we have no way of understanding that reason, if any. Personally, I don't think that "God creates people", I think that our parents do. And if some of them are gay, so be it. I don't think that they are abominations, and I don't think that God does, either.

a reply to: beezzer

God doesn't make mistakes. We do.

We were created "fearfully and wonderfully". Is man fearful of God? Are we such wonderful creatures? Is that God's fault, or because of our own choice that we don't fear God at all and we definitely don't show the marvelous creatures God created us to be? We as God's children should be gods (small "g"), that is what wonderfully made means, but, we are definitely not, because we choose not to be. We choose to be of the world, not of the spiritual world. We desire what the flesh wants. We don't desire God.

I know there are those who walk in spirit, but majority just don't wanna see it and choose the flesh. If man were fearful of God, would he not do as God commanded? Man are trying their best to "prove" sin is okay and by that they mock God. They are lying to themselves so that The Word should suit them. They do not see.


a reply to: Cuervo

1) There's no cherry picking.

2) it Is not impossible to walk it if you walk it in The Spirit. The Law of The Spirit of the Life in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. As the Israelis chose to turn from God at Mount Sinai, they chose to walk without The Holy Spirit. Sin cannot be beaten with the flesh. It can only be overcome with The Holy Spirit.

Today people are walking without The Holy Spirit. They have no Supernatural help, yet they are fighting a spiritual battle. Flesh cannot beat the fallen ones.

I am not judging. I am telling it as the Word says it is. I am not twisting The Written Word, I have to say what It tells me.

I said: A true Christian will still love and pray for the sinner, daily. We all have a plank in our eye that blinds us. I won't chase a homosexual out of my house. But, I will love and pray for them while I am on earth.

a reply to: Akragon

The traditional teaching was to kill the gay person…

The traditional teaching of a lot of things, even minor stuff, was to kill them. That seemed to have largely fallen out of favour in Jesus' time, though -- I'm not sure that you would be stoned for anything other than adultery or blasphemy.

a reply to: Akragon That may be but he did say something about no greater love than laying down your life for your brother. He said that knowing that many would read his words and strive for that. Today in a court of law he could possibly be convicted for such. Meaning that one has to take responsibility for their actions and words. Not only did he willingly without a fight lay down his life but is responsible directly for his diciples and countless others through out the years. It is my opinion that death is no big deal if you truely know of heaven and afterlife. Either there is a lesson for us there or he was just evil to some extent. On top of that when he comes back everyone is expecting death.

a reply to: adjensen

My point exactly... but some things that were punishable by death were dealt with...

Homosexuality was not one of them... And if one considers the whole "eunuch" statement... I believe he had no issue with it...

People say that its immoral... that is nothing more then BS

its not immoral when there's two consenting parties...

People are born that way, and IF Jesus was God as Christians claim... He knew that too

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Akragon That may be but he did say something about no greater love than laying down your life for your brother. He said that knowing that many would read his words and strive for that. Today in a court of law he could possibly be convicted for such. Meaning that one has to take responsibility for their actions and words. Not only did he willingly without a fight lay down his life but is responsible directly for his diciples and countless others through out the years. It is my opinion that death is no big deal if you truely know of heaven and afterlife. Either there is a lesson for us there or he was just evil to some extent. On top of that when he comes back everyone is expecting death.

Death is always a big deal regardless of your knowledge of the afterlife... It has a ripple effect though out the world because people whos lives said person has touched will mourn...

And IF he comes back I personally am not expecting death... Plus I will literally eat my shirt

Maybe Jesus was gay. He "wasn't married to Mary." Maybe he liked one of the disciples. Jesus could have been a flaming homosexual. You think the catholics woulda let that end up in the bible? Lol. I'm sure he wasn't, but you never know.

originally posted by: adjensen

God's ways are not our ways, so we have no way of understanding that reason, if any. Personally, I don't think that "God creates people", I think that our parents do. And if some of them are gay, so be it. I don't think that they are abominations, and I don't think that God does, either.

I think God has a hand in the miracle of life. Personal opinion only. So I don't think he'd have a hand in an abomination. So there must be a reason.

You are absolutely correct in saying that God's ways are not ours. And we don't know the reason.

So that is why I'm personally hesitant to pass judgment on a person. It's why I ask questions like this.

(I can be so annoying sometimes )

originally posted by: luciddream
a reply to: beezzer

Would god have hated something that he created?

Hmmm, that is one messed up god.

Never forget....

God is working hard.

The Devil Satan is also working against God.

originally posted by: KaelemJames
a reply to: beezzer



2) it Is not impossible to walk it if you walk it in The Spirit. The Law of The Spirit of the Life in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. As the Israelis chose to turn from God at Mount Sinai, they chose to walk without The Holy Spirit. Sin cannot be beaten with the flesh. It can only be overcome with The Holy Spirit.

So a gay person who walks in "The Spirit" is cool by your gods? If walking in The Spirit can make you free from the law of sin and death, then wouldn't that make sense?

a reply to: Cuervo

Firstly, I only have one God. My Heavenly Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit, is ONE.

If you walk in The Spirit then The Spirit will help you overcome the evil (temptations which causes us to sin) which we cannot win/beat in flesh. As i previously mentioned, we are but flesh whom are battling supernatural powers (again, because we are blind, proud, we think we are truly wise - we think the world of ourselves) The Holy Spirit will convict us of our sins, and it will be a spiritual battle with The Almighty fighting it for us, if we let Him. First step is to show obedience and ask. The rest will follow.

Do you understand what I meant by the law of sin and death? From what man has chosen from creation, or as The Israelis at Mount Sinai. And that we have been set free from that law which was by the Cross, the Blood of Christ. By Jesus (fully man,fully God) who died for our sins. When Christ ascended God sent The Holy Spirit to help us battle those which we cannot win by ourselves. We need to accept Christ as our Savior, wholly. We shouldn't make up loopholes, or twist The Word so we can fool ourselves to sin by thinking "Christ paid for all our sins and we may do as we like"

Still, because we are in flesh we will come under temptation, and we will fail from time to time. Then we repent and ask for guidance. With time the upright in heart will be convicted of their sins and start to see with their heart. But the desires of the flesh/world is tough to beat.

originally posted by: KaelemJames
a reply to: Cuervo
Still, because we are in flesh we will come under temptation, and we will fail from time to time. Then we repent and ask for guidance. With time the upright in heart will be convicted of their sins and start to see with their heart. But the desires of the flesh/world is tough to beat.

So that's a "yes"? If you "walked in the spirit" as a gay person, you'd be fine? I see Christians "walk in the spirit" as sloths, misers, and eating things they aren't supposed to. None of those Christians (meaning pretty much all Christians) seem to doubt their salvation so... why is being gay any different than the rest of you who choose to sin every single day?

a reply to: Cuervo

Perhaps because hypocrisy is rampant in said religion?

a reply to: Cuervo

Cuervo,

If you walk in The Spirit there is no way when you are convicted of the sin you will stay in it. If you are still in a habitual sin, you're not walking in The Spirit.

a reply to: beezzer

Dear Beezzer,

Come here and let me stroke your cute little bunny fur. (Do rabbits purr? I've never had one.)

I think God has a hand in the miracle of life. Personal opinion only. So I don't think he'd have a hand in an abomination. So there must be a reason.

You are absolutely correct in saying that God's ways are not ours. And we don't know the reason.

So that is why I'm personally hesitant to pass judgment on a person. It's why I ask questions like this.

I could talk about this in three posts, as you know, I tend to get wordy. Let me offer my thoughts.

God has a hand in everything, so, unfortunately, does Satan. Some (but not all) bad things occur because Satan is a liar, distorter, and destroyer. Not everyone on Earth is doing or being wants God wants of them. God doesn't make evil, nor is he responsible for it.

Specifically about Gays. I assume we're not talking about those who become Gay due to circumstances in their lives, but start out having an attraction to the same sex. Nobody seems to know how many of those there are, but your question is valid even if there's just one.

But, just as a person may be attracted to the same sex, another may be attracted to violence, or to addictive behavior such as gambling or drugs. There is no reason at all to condemn such a person. The task that person has is to ACT in accordance with God's will. That's what temptation is.

I won't discuss my particular temptations, you needn't discuss yours either. But, if we're going the right way we fight our temptations and look for help in overcoming them. Sure, we'll slip back and fail now and then, but that's why Jesus talked about forgiving "seventy times seven."

Greed, anger, homosexual desires, and an entire list of temptations face us. It's a mistake to be proud of being selfish, being willing to destroy people to get ahead, or any other sin. Then, like Pharaoh, our hearts will be hardened.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

That makes sense. Yet;

I am from the school of thought that describes homosexuality as a biological drive determined genetically.

Gambling etc are compulsions that are psychological in nature, in my humble.

God doesn't make mistakes.

What His plan is? I haven't a clue.

originally posted by: KaelemJames
a reply to: Cuervo

Cuervo,

If you walk in The Spirit there is no way when you are convicted of the sin you will stay in it. If you are still in a habitual sin, you're not walking in The Spirit.

If going by the bible's standards, not one person I know is not in "habitual sin". Not pastors, not nuns, not children. So it's obvious that walking in the spirit does not keep you from sinning.

The only other conclusion is that either everybody is going to your hell or that walking in the spirit absolves you from your sins. If that's the case, then a gay Christian is every bit as saved as a straight Christian who shaves his beard or is greedy with his money. Right?

a reply to: beezzer

Dear Beezzer,

(I still don't know if bunnies purr)

God's plan? I'm assuming that ultimately it's to gather all of his children to Him in Heaven. More specifics than that, such as how He will do it, or if anyone will be shut out is the tougher question.

But Nature v. Nurture is an interesting debate. There's a field of study called behavioral genetics. here's a clip from one article on the subject:

Today, however, most scientists agree that both genes and environmental factors are important in forming behavior. There is still debate as to how much nature (genes) and how much nurture (environment) affect behavior. It is generally accepted that for each trait, nature and nurture work together in different proportions.

For example, scientists estimate that in deciding how tall a person will be, inherited genes have nine times more influence than the environment a person grows up in (which may influence such factors as a person's nutrition). However, researchers have estimated that in determining whether or not a person will become depressed, genes and the environment are about equally important.

www.humanillnesses.com...

Homosexuality and Genes? No one knows yet, but the smart money is on a mix of nature and nurture.

Of course, that doesn't change anything I said. Whether you have the temptation from your genes, from being sexually abused as a child, or from some other reason, it's still a temptation to be dealt with.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. If you want a more thorough scientific study of the question, try this article beginning at page 4. Summary, there is no evidence showing that homosexuality is caused by genes alone. No "Gay" gene has been found, and they're not really expecting one.

www.narth.org...