FDA To Evaluate Marijuana For Potential Reclassification As Less Dangerous Drug

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

i dont think anyone mentioned this yet but here it goes.

it took 2 constitutional amendments to ban alcohol and to undo it. wheres the constitutional amendment for all these other drugs ? they didnt make one because they knew they wouldnt get away with it.besides it would be a dangerous and immoral amendment. carry on

The classification itself shows the folks who made the schedule have no clue ... peyote and acid schedule 1? Ridiculous. Let's just say even more ridiculous than weed, which can be pretty psychologically addicting for some folks.

Oh well, the slow progress continues for a rational drug policy.

For those that think: It's okay for a government to regulate minds, and/or have family or friends destroyed by drugs... well, a less criminal and more healthcare oriented approach to drug problems only makes sense.

The illegality of drugs makes good information on them hard to get and more importantly, makes them impossible to regulate! It also gives drugs an aura of romance... talking openly about the different chemicals and how addiction can occur with some of them... removing any romantic notions... are the only ways to deal with these substances... people like these chemicals, locking them up for it is very evil.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The question you should be asking yourself is this... Why would the government want to legalize mj now? Do you really think they would be doing it for the "good of the people" or is it more in par to the fact that people who use frequently mj are more easily manipulated, and are more prone to make life changing decisions while impaired?

a reply to: crazyewok

Just wanted to clarify that opiates are not toxic in the sense you used... they WILL kill you from relaxing you to the point of forgetting to breathe, or when mixed with other chems (like alcohol or benzodiazepams) can kill you quite fast, but as far as organ damage from opiates alone, there is none.

In fact, it's one of the safest drugs to use long term, except for the fact they are horribly physically (and psychologically) addictive.... which is a huuuuge exception!

The bad things come from what the opiates in pills are mixed with (acetaminophen- Tylenol) ...that can tear your liver to pieces. Also, street stuff (heroin) has adulterants in it... and IV use can kill you from bacteria and junk in your blood vessels... but opiates themselves are surprisingly benign... to the body, anyway.

That said, the addictive side is ...terrible.

ETA but if opiates were cheap, accessible, pure and regulated... and someone chose to spend the rest of their lives feeling better, in their estimation, then that's bad exactly why?

Philosophical differences about life shouldn't be mixed with criminal law... and again, most of the things about addiction we find bad are because of the illegal status... if they had access to their needed chem, most nuisance crimes would disappear.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Not remotely. About the only major decision an mj user would make is pizza or Chinese.

originally posted by: Baddogma
... people like these chemicals, locking them up for it is very evil.

I agree with almost everything you said except this last part. It would depend on what they were doing. Were they selling to minors or selling drugs that are not only highly addictive but also destroy lives? Were they driving, or using machinery which could harm others while impaired? Would you call locking those people away, and other similar cases as evil?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Not remotely. About the only major decision an mj user would make is pizza or Chinese.

Not really. You are ignoring several facts such as the fact that children and young adults have used them, and still use them while in school affecting their grades and making them more susceptible to be influenced making mistakes and bad decisions... People can be and have been caught driving, using other machinery, or making decisions that can affect others while being under the influence of mj.

You are leaving out quite a lot of facts.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The same could be(is) said about Darvon, Xanax, Oxy, Valium.... should I continue?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The same could be(is) said about Darvon, Xanax, Oxy, Valium.... should I continue?

First, if you are caught driving, or using any machinery that can harm others while under the influence, even from prescribed drugs and you cause an accident, or you are seen by responsible people as using slur speech or showing other signs of severe side effects that could cause an accident you can lose your job and you can end up in jail as well.

Second, growers and sellers of mj are for the most part not doctors so most people that use mj are medicating themselves increasing their susceptibility to addiction and to make irrational choices such as alcoholics who can't, and won't stop themselves from using such addictive drugs increasing the chances of accidents and irrational behavior.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

There are caveats to everything... selling heroin to minors deserves instant death ...in most cases... but what if the kids were dying from cancer, though? (mostly kidding)

But really, the issues you bring up are related to the strange area in society drugs occupy... a grey area where anything goes... as in "unregulated."

Addiction is a toughy, but just making the addictive stuff illegal doesn't do anything but drive people in trouble underground, unable to get help, doing petty crimes to feed their addiction... in fact, most of the problems of addiction come precisely from the illegal status of the drugs.

And really, if someone wants to hurt themselves with a truly destructive drug like meth, how is illegality making a difference? They will still find the drug, but will be less inclined to get help due to stigma and law complications.

We should approach drugs in a rational manner and quit jailing the folks with issues that are tough to deal with.

Drug issues should be handled as health issues... not jailing offenses. The true dangerous criminals are drawn to the black market precisely because drugs are illegal, unregulated and insanely profitable.

But people who do violence when under the influence or are caught operating heavy machinery while loopy... yeah, jail is fine.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

MJ and alcohol are WAY different. Booze emboldens you, mj the opposite. You're way more apt to be nailed with booze than mj. There is NO comparison.

ETA: And mj isn't addictive.

a reply to: intrepid

MJ is not PHYSICALLY addictive... heh... but some people are psychologically dependent on it... same as some people need their "blanky" or Teddy bear.

But I get your meaning and people who condemn it from a knee-jerk perspective should know that fact and I'm being too exact, etc.

In short, yup, it's more harmless than Tylenol and if people want to use it, what right does someone else have to negate that... most especially if it hurts nobody else... and that goes for even the most destructive substances, really.

originally posted by: Baddogma

... in fact, most of the problems of addiction come precisely from the illegal status of the drugs.

And really, if someone wants to hurt themselves with a truly destructive drug like meth, how is illegality making a difference? They will still find the drug, but will be less inclined to get help due to stigma and law complications.
...

Not really. The problem with addiction from drugs such as heroin, and even mj comes from the fact that such drugs are highly addictive and impair your memory. In the case of some drugs such as heroin, meth, etc they also cause a lot of physical damage to your body which is also part of the reason why they are illegal.

As for your claim that making them illegal is the biggest problem and causes more people to seek them underground, that is not true. Alcohol is also very addictive and it is legal, yet a lot of people use alcohol irresponsibly driving while intoxicated. Many become alcoholics who for the most part do not want to accept the fact that they are addicted and highly impaired while under the influence.

In a similar thread in these forums some years back, but discussing alcohol, we had a couple of members who kept claiming that they could drink 6-8 beers and drive just fine, that they were not impaired. They would not accept the fact that they were driving under the influence... There are people like that, and many more who would not discuss in public the fact that they could not accept the fact that they had a problem. Making such highly addictive drugs legal would cause a sharp increase in the use of such drugs.

I have no problem with people who drink responsibly, or people who use mj responsibly because they have a "real medical problem". My problem is that making these drugs legal would cause even more children, and young adults to become addicts as the drugs will become even more accessible to them. Not to mention that there will be even more adults who will believe that the legality of such drugs would allow them to drive, and even work, under the heavy influence of such drugs while "not getting caught" but still causing accidents.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
I have no problem with people who drink responsibly, or people who use mj responsibly because they have a "real medical problem". My problem is that making these drugs legal would cause even more children, and young adults to become addicts as the drugs will become even more accessible to them.

This is a fallacy. Discussing this with my son about 10 years ago(14 at the time) he said that money was harder to come by than any drug.

Not to mention that there will be even more adults who will believe that the legality of such drugs would allow them to drive, and even work, under the heavy influence of such drugs while "not getting caught" but still causing accidents.

Another fallacy. Anyone stupid enough to do this won't change. Anyone smart enough not to won't start.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: intrepid

MJ is not PHYSICALLY addictive... heh... but some people are psychologically dependent on it... same as some people need their "blanky" or Teddy bear.

But I get your meaning and people who condemn it from a knee-jerk perspective should know that fact and I'm being too exact, etc.


...

You are not being "too exact". You are just proclaiming that the mj lobby is right while ignoring facts.

According to the The DSM-IV marijuana addiction, can be with physiological dependence or without physiological dependence.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: intrepid

This is a fallacy. Discussing this with my son about 10 years ago(14 at the time) he said that money was harder to come by than any drug.

The fallacy is on your part. First of all your son was probably talking about the "bait and hook" tactics that has been used by the drug dealers in which they give some free drugs to kids, young adults and even adults to hook them to the drug.

Sometimes the drug dealers would use other tactics such as giving free drugs to get kids, young adults and adults to either get other people hooked on their drugs, a "referral" of sorts. Sometimes the drug dealers would also give drugs in exchange for sex, or even in exchange for other criminal activities. So, can children, young adults and even adults gets drugs without money?... Sure they can, but the drug dealers do that for selfish reasons, nor "for the good of their hearts". They are trying to get people addicted and dependent to these drugs.

IMO every drug dealer should rot in prison and hell. They are not doing a service to anyone but themselves.

originally posted by: intrepid

Another fallacy. Anyone stupid enough to do this won't change. Anyone smart enough not to won't start.

It is not a fallacy, it is part of the denial stage that comes with substance abuse. Some people just never come out of that stage.

So what will the cigarette companies add to the pot once it's legal ,Nicotine?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You are telling ME what was going on in my son's life? Right. I was there. You DO know that just saying something doesn't automatically make it true, right?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

O boy the classic

"THINK OF THE CHILDERN!!1!1!!!!!!" argument

Sheesh

Don’t you think if they legalised Mj they would put a age restriction on it?

The kids that break the age restriction would still get even if MJ had the death penalty attached

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I get what you are saying, and agree with much of it... however, I don't think I was saying to make everything legal and see what happens... that's as knee-jerk as the other extreme.

These substances are potentially dangerous (in varying degrees)... yet we allow and regulate alcohol and firearms... we tend to make things illegal that we are afraid of (or unfamiliar with) and most people don't have all the information to make good judgements about them.

Making them legal, and legal and regulated, are two different things... let me be clear that I think they should be legal and regulated. Any resultant bad behavior can be modified as it comes... like we do now anyway.

A few points, though:

The truth is, making drugs illegal makes them far more desirable to kids, than if they were boringly legal and licensed. It's naughty now... and I tell you they are incredibly available now... and in this hushed, dangerous atmosphere well- intentioned folks like yourself have created, they're far more likely to be experimented with in ignorance... and that's where the damage comes from.

(ETA and in fact, most addicts are made through perfectly legal prescriptions... or at least as many as are made through recreational experimentation that extends for too many consecutive days.)

Our common drug stance is arbitrary, ignorant, counter-productive and ruins arguably more lives through economic and legal means than just making it legal would... but there is a middle ground of knowing they exist, not demonizing it and approaching it like the health problem it mostly is.

It's not a popular stance I have...yet... but I have some unique perspectives I paid dearly for... and I'm convinced I'm correct about it.

Blanket condemnation and illegality will not make it go away...as a century of experience is slowly showing our damaged society. The bad from illegality far outweighs the good... but I'm not for an anything goes free-for-all (although on some days I wonder, "why not?" in a cold, Darwinist manner).