The Old Universal Language, Confounded by Babel

a reply to: andy06shake


"5000 years is not even a blink of the eye in evolutionary terms. Not enough time generationally speaking for mutations to have occurred, good or bad."

I was speaking of actual evidence, not hypothesis. the appearance of mutations can
be calculated.

www.nature.com...

a reply to: UMayBRite!

I suppose with mathematics the probability of most instances can be calculated these days.

I don't really think we understand enough about the processes at work during evolution to be able to calculated when or if mutations will occur with any certainty. There are just too many unknown factors at play, maybe when we have observed the process for a few thousand years.

Also, this seems firmly rooted in mankind's tendency to idealize the past.

the internet will be the new babel fish and maybe we had some sort of network like this in the past not the internet but another network. In 50 yrs language will not be a barrier to communication through universal translators.

a reply to: TheJourney

i like tower of babel
it's like puzzle and i came up with many interpretations

The 'universal' language could be anything like telepathy or also Love

Imagine IF the tower building is the process of babies growing up then the first language that most (or perhaps all) newborn babies express to everyone they see is Pure Love.
And babies continue to grow up to become kids, and during process, they learn more words, then ideas or concepts (duality) until they feel the sense of separation after years.
Then they speak different language/beliefs/concepts speaks Japanese, English, Chinese, etc

But the tower building could also mean Kundalini meditation process as well, start from root chakra.

It has so many meanings, honestly. But I like the positive ones rather than "the jealous god" version.

peace

a reply to: TiM3LoRd

I certainly agree that our internet not only has but will revolutionise our society in new and inconceivable fashions in the coming decades.

As to language becoming less of a barrier in 50 years time, far as I can see language is no longer a barrier, English is now the dominant universal language(On Earth) and will continue as such while at the same time adopting parts and syntax of the other languages of our world.

I suppose though at the end of the day as humanity progress toward the singularity the only true language required will be mathematics.

a reply to: TheJourney

Interesting outlook.

I like to take the Bible literally when it allows. God is language, "the word", "the alpha and omega" (first and last letter of the greek alphabet), the "logos". Perhaps the first language ever spoken, or perhaps the first alphabet, is God, for it is only with language and words we discover, conceive and arrive at truth, love, good, evil, God etc. We speak entire worlds into existence, much like God did the heavens.

a reply to: Aphorism

Man is far older than the Bible and so is the written word, I think the ancient Sumerians could quite possibly take issue with you interpretation.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: andy06shake

Man is far older than the Bible and so is the written word, I think the ancient Sumerians could quite possibly take issue with you interpretation.

I completely agree. But I wouldn't expect some bronze age tribesman to come to the same conclusion as you.

The History of the Alphabet

a reply to: Aphorism

Those very same bronze age tribesmen aka ancient Sumerians, given similar circumstances to ourselves, access to educational tools, the ability to express their opinion openly and freely could quite possibly come to those same conclusions. And probably done just that, their perspective being antediluvian civilizations such as Atlantis, Lemuria, Hy Brazil and there like.

We are not that different from an evolutionary perspective than Bronze age humans.

I wonder sometimes if we are just better these days at annihilating one another than our ancestors ever were.

a reply to: andy06shake

Those very same bronze age tribesmen aka ancient Sumerians, given similar circumstances to ourselves, access to educational tools, the ability to express their opinion openly and freely could quite possibly come to those same conclusions. And probably done just that, their perspective being antediluvian civilizations such as Atlantis, Lemuria, Hy Brazil and there like.

We are not that different from an evolutionary perspective than Bronze age humans.

I was speaking of the authors of the Bible, who likely had no clue who the Sumerians were.

a reply to: Aphorism

"I was speaking of the authors of the Bible, who likely had no clue who the Sumerians were."

I think that some of the priest cast or whomever the keepers of knowledge were at the time probably knew of the Sumerians considering our Bible blatantly plagiarized and cannibalizes there creation tales and myths amongst others.

Far too many similarities for my liking and keeping in mind Ecclesiastes 1:9 "There is nothing new under the Sun".

Copper is a highly conductive substance. If a high percentage, or the entire surface of the Tower of Babel were based in copper?

A lightning strike would send large amounts of electricity throughout the structure. Anyone standing on the structure would either be killed or in all likelihood survive. But suffer from amnesia due to the manner in which the human body handles electricity.

The most likely representation of a Universal language is in the form of some kind of sign language. Rudimentary sign language is an inherent art of human communication.

I mean how does one for example ask another person for a glass of water if they do not speak the same language?

Trading formally between leaders of different cultures in the period, probably required knowledge of a particular brand of sign language.

Consider that with respect to the location of the Tower of Babel their is a rainy season one a year. Thunder Storms during that time can be very violent.

An issue in all of this is precisely where people thought God and Heaven were in that period.

That would have been at the top of clouds.

So not only could the Tower of Babel been made of Copper. But in relation to a Ritual Celebration it is very likely that was scheduled to occur, when it was raining, during a thunderstorm.

Any Thoughts?

originally posted by: dodol
a reply to: TheJourney


The 'universal' language could be anything like telepathy or also Love

But the tower building could also mean Kundalini meditation process as well, start from root chakra.

Maybe the original language was in energy form as you suggest. Something to ponder.

leolady

Copper is resistant to oxidation and in relation to the period. There is no reason to believe people then, understood its conductive properties, in relation to electricity.

a reply to: brandiwine14

very cool idea. When the tsunami hit indonesia, the animals had all gone to higher ground before it hit, probably before the earthquake…

Book of Jasher talks in detail about the animals that showed up for the ark: it says many animals in large groups showed up, but God told Noah to take only the ones that crouched before him… at one point, a lioness leads her two young cubs to Noah and leaves them with him and goes back to the group of other lions and roars unhappily…

the book of Jasher also says that 700,000 people showed up at Noah's ark and threatened to break in and God sent the animals against the people (that's how many extra animals were there according to Jasher.)

seems like the animals are in greater harmony w the Divine… while we have to grapple with our free will and more profound aspects of awareness...

"For the condition of the children of men, and the condition of beasts are even as one condition unto them. As the one dieth, so dieth the other: for they have all one breath, and there is no excellency of man above the beast: for all is vanity."
Ecclesiastes 3:19


Also interesting is the number of times the languages cross each other: a word meaning something good in one language means something perverse or upsetting in another… like a specific intent to separate the people was put in place… In Russian the word for "husband" for example, sounds like "mush"… there are many of these…

It also seems likely that the tower may have been a other-dimensional gateway (they built it in a valley: hardly ideal if height was the main concern) There may be some translation issues--often words in Hebrew have many different meanings/variations…

God would not allow the people to build this… God seems to do what is best for His purpose: harvest of spirits willing to learn humility and glorify Him. Some use this as an excuse to say God is unkind, but we have to remember God says "I AM" and nothing exists without Him. Anything in denial or separation from Him is ultimately destroyed.

a reply to: andy06shake

used to think this, but now considering all the blatant lies of the "Ancient Aliens" peeps and the dubious backgrounds (Von Daniken went to Jesuit school--Sitchin probably could not even read Sumerian and has ties to Rothschilds)

yt: Ancient Aliens Debunked
youtu.be...

and that carbon dating is totally unreliable and worse, used knowing this, which along w the above and other examples, implies a systemic corruption and bias away from the many verifiable truths about the Bible:

“If a C-14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. if it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a footnote. And if it is completely out of date, we just drop it.”
Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson, Proceedings of the 12th Nobel Symposium, New York 1970, p. 35

Mammoths have been carbon dated to wildly different ages of bone v. skin samples. live shellfish dated to thousands of years old, freshly killed seal dated to 1,300 yrs (Antarctic Journal vol. 6 Sept.-Oct. 1971 p.211

half of carbon dating numbers often thrown out

Professor Reiner Protsch von Zeiten lied about c-14 results for 30 yrs.

“Age estimates on a given geological stratum by different radiometric methods are often quite different (sometimes by hundreds of millions of years). There is no absolutely reliable long-term radiological clock.”
--Stansfield, The Science of Evolution, p.84

a reply to: UMayBRite!

research DNA complexity, the fossil record or facts about the cosmos: there is NO evolution… the DNA has been profoundly complex since the beginning… which is why the former head of the Human Genome Project, Dr. Francis Collins, converted to Christianity…

Most fail to understand that the churches have all been infiltrated an corrupted by occultists and self-interested people, to varying degrees, but the Textus Receptus was not corrupted.

yt: Lee Strobel - The Case for the Resurrection
www.youtube.com...
yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
www.youtube.com...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...
yt: The Forbidden Book - History of The English Bible (Documentary Film)
www.youtube.com...

youtube: The Case For A Creator With Lee Strobel
www.youtube.com...
The Fossil Record Speaks
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: UMayBRite!

just one of many examples:

www.icr.org...
"According to astronomical observations, galaxies like our own experience about one supernova (a violently-exploding star) every 25 years. The gas and dust remnants from such explosions (like the Crab Nebula) expand outward rapidly and should remain visible for over a million years. Yet the nearby parts of our galaxy in which we could observe such gas and dust shells contain only about 200 supernova remnants. That number is consistent with only about 7,000 years worth of supernovas."