Obama cites Australia’s gun confiscation program as example for US

originally posted by: Magnivea
a reply to: beezzer

What irritates me is foreign nationals who have no comprehension of why we want our firearms.

Dear foreign nationals,

Not only is it written into the documents that were the beginning of our country that we could posses firearms, but we also need to be able to defend ourselves from our own government. You see, for all of the nationalism spewed from everything from Americans (not myself, I'm ashamed of what we have let this country become) to the South African members of this site, the fact of the matter is that our military is the strongest in the world and our government in the running for the most insane.

How many of your countries have started thousands of international incidents, wars and skirmishes in the past 80 years for nothing but personal interests? A few are close but still nowhere near us. We have reason to be afraid, defensive and prepared. Name calling and pushing your country's policies does nothing but show ignorance.

If someone is determined enough, what's from stopping them obtaining a large blade and going on a slashing spree? I see mentions of those fairly frequently... Our media is controlled by our government. Of course these incidents are going to be publicized beyond anything else because it's part of an agenda that's been going on for years here. Please, visit this country and tell us after that we shouldn't have access to the firearms our founding fathers intended us to have.

With that, flame away, particularly the Aussies.

Sincerely,

Most Americans with firearms

Technical issue:
-in spite of being foreigner I fully understand historical and legal basis for such peculiar gun tradition in the US
-any original arguments concerning militia outlived its useful military viability (unless those militias have access to heavy weapons like tanks and artillery)
-seeing that in whole first world is possible to have safety mechanism concerning gov without giving all freaks access to guns, American belief that having guns in crucial sounds unconvincing
-splashing spree is less effective than using guns
-honestly speaking belief that US foreign policy in last 80 was somewhat unique shows poor knowledge of other countries history (except that the USA was bigger player, so proportionally to its size was involved in plenty of intrigues and wars)

originally posted by: LordGoofus
As a non-american, to me the answer is very obvious, and it's the same answer that's obvious to millions of others that don't reside in America. But whatever, I'm sure many others are sick of saying the same thing over and over and seeing the same fanatics get their back up over taking away their precious guns. American culture is strongly backed by violence likely due to decades of continually being at war with someone, the people seem to be in fear of everything around them. That's fine. Be afraid, kill each other for silly reasons and beat your chests. While you do that the rest of the developed world will continue to evolve and grow as a society while you board up your windows, plan for the apocalypse and rave about how america is the greatest country on earth.

I kinda agree being from across the pond aswell. I was a child when they asked the population of the UK to hand in guns, I was shocked at the shootings that caused it and to this day I agree with the action taken. I wont say that since then I havent seen a gun, a few years back I was joking around with some friends wondering how easy it would be to get a gun in the town I live in (56 miles outside of London). I was surprised when I was handed what looked like a glock and magazine. I quickly gave it back but found that the guy who got it had no trouble getting one.

Turns out that 4 of the guys I used to hang around with had connections (one was an IRA connection which freaked me out ever so slightly), easy to get a gun where ever you live. But not as many deaths per 1000 in UK from gun's.

58 in 2011

but f**k yeah! 2 in 2011 from a motherf**king crossbow!

Source might be wrong but that made me chuckle (for all the wrong reasons... picturing someone sniping someone with a cross bow for some reason)

www.juancole.com...

a reply to: LrdRedhawk

That's just great.

More reactionary nonsense, where what is needed is better monitoring and treatment of people who have psychological malfunctions, which lead them to violence and insanity.

It cannot be said enough times, that guns are not the problem here. The people who are walking around with the will and the lack of moral awareness necessary to make attacks like those which currently plague America, are dangerous by definition. The guns they carry are lumps of inanimate matter, and only as dangerous as the person wielding them. These people would be lethal if all they had was a lump of concrete stuck to a pipe, or a knife, or a spoon, or a Godamn house brick.

An interesting point about the Port Arthur Massacre, which triggered the disarming of Australia:


All of these events, from the first bullet that killed Ng, took approximately 15 seconds, during which 12 people were killed and 10 more were wounded. Source

30 or so shots in 15 seconds with a kill rate of 40%. Any military guys here think that is a pretty good statistic to have on their CV?

And supposedly this from a retarded person who had in 1992 been hospitalised for seven months with severe neck and back injuries. Descriptions of Bryant's behaviour as an adolescent show that he continued to be disturbed and outline the possibility of mental retardation. He was revealed to have extremely low intelligence, with an I.Q. of 66,[5] equivalent to an 11-year-old and in the bottom 1.17 percent of the Australian population. Further testing following his arrest indicated a verbal I.Q. of 64 and non-verbal reasoning and cognitive functioning of 68, giving a full scale I.Q. of 66, an age equivalent of 11 years in the 10th percentile (90% of 11 year olds would score higher). On leaving school he was assessed for a disability pension by a psychiatrist who wrote: "Cannot read or write. Does a bit of gardening and watches TV ... Only his parents' efforts prevent further deterioration. Could be schizophrenic and parents face a bleak future with him." Bryant received a disability pension, though he also worked as a handyman and gardener.source

At least two variants of a conspiracy theory about the massacre have been promoted. As there was no dispute that Bryant was responsible for the Seascape murders, police made little effort to separately identify him for Port Arthur.

Interviewed in 2006, Tony Rundle, Premier of Tasmania from 1996 to 1998, admitted that because there was no trial the evidence made public was possibly insufficient to support that Bryant had been the gunman: "At the time, the view was that a trial could do no good for the victims and their families. Now I think maybe that wasn't the case. If all the evidence was heard, then maybe it would have provided some closure and stopped the proliferation of conspiracy theories that sprang up over the years." source

Don't do it!



Seriously though....

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: LrdRedhawk
Obama should move to Australia.

I look forward to welcoming our imperial emperor down under, haha.

Sigh.

What annoys me most about Mr Obama using the Australian example for your gun control is that he does not even have his facts right .
He compares the Port Arthur massacre to a school shooting like Columbine or Newton ,

There is reason to think the Port Arthur massacre was planned as early 1987 when, after a specially called Premier's meeting in Hobart in December 1987, the New South Wales Labour Premier, Mr. Barry Unsworth stated, "there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania"

On Sunday, 28 April 1996, at a sleepy little tourist location known as Port Arthur, something went down that will long live in memory of Australia's collective psyche. An unknown professional combat shooter opened fire in the Broad Arrow Cafe at Port Arthur in Tasmania. In less than a minute 20 people lay dead, 19 of them killed with single shots to the head, fired from the right hip of the fast-moving shooter.

The awesome display of combat marksmanship was blamed on intellectually impaired Martin Bryant, who was held in illegal strict solitary confinement for more than 120 days, until he was "ready" to plead guilty. There was no trial. Within a matter of weeks legislation was passed to removed semi-automatic weapons from the Australian population and a gun buy-back proceeded. It is now illegal to own any semi-automatic gun in Australia.

The Port Arthur Massacre has come to be known in conspiracy circles as a "psyop". The definition of a psyop is a psychological operation or an event designed to drum up public support for some piece of legislation that would be otherwise be unpopular and probably be defeated.

members.iimetro.com.au...

Port Arthur was not a school it was a tourist spot in Tasmania . He seems to infer that we too had mass shootings . Well we never had a mass shooting ever before that one and if anyone cares to research that shooting the infomation is overwhelming that something very dark and sinister took place that day , using a virtual slow learner boy as its pasty .
Australia was not a gun culture by nature as the USA was . The two countries are very different , but it would seem certain agenda was sprung upon the very unsuspecting Australian public that day .
Why would Johnny Howard so want guns that were not really a problem taken away from those who did have them .
I know that illegal guns are everywhere here now and as the other Sydney nurse lady mentioned , its the Lebonese and other gangs using them .
And no we dont really care as a public if they do shoot each other up . Each to his own turf we say .

a reply to: LordGoofus

Go back and read the post by Whereismypassword.

Or you can come visit us and see why we want our firearms. Or you could wake up and see that not only is it a right given to us by the founders of our country but also that criminals have unregistered weapons. Unregistered means that there's no incentive to turn theirs in and every incentive to keep them.

I'll make a deal with you, all of the others that have no clue about Americans and our country and the gun grabbers. Just as soon as criminals are disarmed, our government surrenders all firearms that are not military or ATF (really, why the hell does the EPA need assault rifles?) and our federal government goes back to hand counted paper ballots that DIRECTLY decide our elected officials (ex: a REAL democracy that can't be hacked, not a republic with pre programmed decisions) I'll go ahead and hand in my entire collection of roughly 100 and side with you people.

As for the use of the word "fanatics" there are, yes. Plenty. Usually walking stereotypes. T shirts with cutoff arms, camo Cabella's hats, McDonald's bag in the hand that isn't tucked into the sling, I won't mention the estimated size of the T shirts or (sweat) pants, just got out of a Ford F350 lifted 6" with a gun rack in the back of the cab with a Wal-Mart bumper sticker.

Not all of us want our guns for the reasons they do. Not all of us are as mentally challenged as they appear.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: bellagirl

No, we happen to have a constitution that protect us from idiots specially those behind agendas in government, including the frog president in the White house, sadly Australia will never get to know what it is to be a free country, after all if history doesn't fail me they started as nothing but a penal colony.

Might want to check your own history there too, Marg.

North America (and locales of modern USA) were also utilised as penal colonies, before Great Britain began to send convicts to Australia. So i would advise you hop off that high horse of yours.

Source:

In 1769 Dr. Johnson, speaking of Americans, said to a friend, "Sir, they are a race of convicts and ought to be content with anything we may allow them short of hanging." In the latest edition of Boswell, who chronicled this saying, it is explained by the following footnote: "Convicts were sent to nine of the American settlements. According to one estimate, about 2000 had been sent for many years annually. Dr. Lang, after comparing various estimates, concludes that the number sent might be about 50,000 altogether."1 Again, in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, under the article "Botany Bay," we read: "On the revolt of the New England colonies, the convict establishments in America were no longer available, and so the attention of the British government was turned to Botany Bay, and in 1787 a penal settlement was formed there."

goo.gl...

a reply to: daaskapital Yes > I always remember being taught in school that Australia became a penal colony simply because they couldn.t use the Americas any more . I guess they forgot to teach that in US history lessons

1) Didn't mention anything to do with a militia. It's just not a possibility to have a real militia in modern times.

2) I disagree. Unless NATO steps in there's no real need for tanks as I think the feds would have quite a hard time finding mentally stable people who would turn tanks against fellow Americans.

3) Our safety mechanism IS our ability to defend ourselves. I know it's hard to comprehend but the whole of the "first world" is nothing but supportive (generally) of what our mildly schizophrenic government does. Don't really give a damn if it sounds "unconvincing" as a week in this festering cesspool would almost certainly change your mind.

4) Not necessarily slashing but if people are going to lose their sh## badly enough to go on a murderous rampage they'll find a way. Look at that guy in the 90s in California that broke into a military base and stole a tank that he then ran from police in. Or that 30+ stabbing spree in China recently. Anyone with the ability to download TOR or access some torrent sites doesn't need a gun, just ammunition which also is easier to obtain. There are zip gun plans everywhere. My license allows me to manufacture/amend weapons and I have 3 fully registered, fully automatic SMGs that are made out of scraps of other useless guns and parts from a hardware store. I could have made them for a total of about $50 each but since I went the legal route it cost over $5000 each.

5) Poor knowledge of other countries history? Hardly. As I said, some are close but none THAT close. US foreign policy for most of the past 80 years has been world police. Unless of course a country in trouble has nothing we want. I'm actually going to look up foreign instigation statistics from 1945 until present, I think.

Also, I'd like to point out your point on the US being proportionally larger. Did you notice the post up there the poster who did a proportional analysis? For the size of this country there seems to be little to no news from the state-run media about anything but gun violence anymore. The agenda is blatant and no one seems to take into account the sheer size of this country.

The irony of someone surrounded by an army of armed security 24/7 promoting gun control and bans for the peons. I believe in leadership through example. Obama should disarm the secret service if he believes that people are safer disarmed.

originally posted by: thekaboose


but f**k yeah! 2 in 2011 from a motherf**king crossbow!

Source might be wrong but that made me chuckle (for all the wrong reasons... picturing someone sniping someone with a cross bow for some reason)

www.juancole.com...

That there takes a special kind of ingenuity. At least he had to work for those. What the hell was the pull? Killing someone at anything more than 15' is kinda difficult. I found another from 2013 in Aylesbury as well, a detective. That one was close range. But long range... Hell It would have to be along the lines of a leaf spring from an old truck for any distance...

originally posted by: NavyDoc
The irony of someone surrounded by an army of armed security 24/7 promoting gun control and bans for the peons. I believe in leadership through example. Obama should disarm the secret service if he believes that people are safer disarmed.

You got that right.
When his motorcade drives through a city, there are black SUV's with miniguns that can be deployed from the roof of the vehicle. I would like to know how they would use that particular weapon on a route lined with citizens there for a glance at the presidential motorcade. Imagine the bystanders that would be shot if they lit one of those babies up.
And they talk about a semiautomatic rifle 'spraying bullets' from a 'thirty round bullet clip'.

a reply to: bellagirl

Sounds like you and your family are great peasants....I mean citizens to your Govt.

I am very happy to your Govt said no more freedom to own a firearm, and you and your family handed it over like you were told.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

If we are a lost cause, then it is safe to assume that your uneducated comments about our 2nd Amendment will cease with this single post of yours.

My question is, where is the outrage when people get shot daily in the inner-cities? Nobody cares when kids get shot up in the streets on a daily basis, but let it happen in a school and it's a national frenzy where people attack guns, instead of why they did it.
Thank you for whoever corrected the Australian on grammar error calling Americans idiots. That is so funny to me.
This whole conversation is ludicrous. Guns are Americas right. If you take that right away, you can start to take more away. In fact, if they take away that right, the other ones will be easy to take away.
It is impossible to defend yourself or overthrow a gov't with sticks and stones, when the gov't has GUNS.

originally posted by: o0oTOPCATo0o
My question is, where is the outrage when people get shot daily in the inner-cities? Nobody cares when kids get shot up in the streets on a daily basis, but let it happen in a school and it's a national frenzy where people attack guns, instead of why they did it.

It's back on page 2

yes there are still shootings here but i can safely say over 90% have a middle eastern name and its gang related just shooting each other in gang wars. that doesnt bother me....shoot away at each other. one poor innocent man got caught in the cross fire once and was killed.

bellagirl

Oh wait. That's just the opposite.

For some reason the most dangerous people, the ones responsible for the most crimes and murders, get a pass.
It's the average girl or guy with a 9 to 5 who likes to compete in IDPA or 3-gun on the weekends that gets all the scorn.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: dashen

Can you name something good that doesn't rely on instant access to lethal force?

The hundreds of anole lizards out in my yard. They hunt the bugs that try to eat my plants.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: dashen

Can you name something good that doesn't rely on instant access to lethal force?

The hundreds of anole lizards out in my yard. They hunt the bugs that try to eat my plants.

Uh oh.
The lizards rely on the lethal force of their tongue and jaws to kill and eat the bugs.
Lizards are out.