Coming Home to Roost: American Militarism, War Culture and Police Brutality

As I said above, most police are NOT soldiers. They never were.

They are taking people with a law enforcement mentality and teaching them military tactics.

A soldier is trained specifically for combat. Soldiers know how to exercise tactical patience, how to make sound judgement calls on the fly when the heat is on. This is what we're trained for.

Cops are not meant for combat. They do not understand tactical patience, and the type of person who is attracted to being a police officer for the power is extremely dangerous without the tactical experience and patience that a soldier is trained to display.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Interesting.

Do you think returning combat vets from WW2, Korea and Vietnam fell into the same ?

Are there any clear "differences" IYO ?

There is a bit of a difference. In the eras of an active draft, you are bringing in a much wider variety in personality types. Compared to today, where service is voluntary and by extension narrows the variety of personality types serving. So overall the effect becomes much more pronounced. Not that I have anything personal against Vets, just realistically it is a path that will appeal to those with the bully type personality by the nature of the job.

a reply to: projectvxn

this is correct. police abuse has occured since before the founding of the country. aggressive dominance is a behavior all primates partake in.

police brutality is minimized, however, when there is a greater sense of community. Meaning that the police know the public and the public knows the police. Larger towns....this is far less likely. Smaller towns....almost guaranteed.

Growing up all we had was a county sheriff patrolling/living near our small town of about 300 people. We all knew him and his family. I graduated with his daughter. The Deputy that took his place....we all knew him, too. And all the drama in his life. The fights with the wife and what not. We all knew each other. And crime was a matter of outsiders committing it, or a kid misbehaving.

LOL, yeah...i grew up in a w. texas mayberry. But the point is, the more sense of community you have, the less brutality that is used. Because you know each other. My current town is 30k, and the police act distant from the rest of us. I know them from business...but the average citizen doesn't really know any cops other than by their last name from their badge.

a reply to: KeliOnyx

Not that I have anything personal against Vets, just realistically it is a path that will appeal to those with the bully type personality by the nature of the job.

I am not a bully.

Getting a little tired of your generalizations.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: KeliOnyx

Not that I have anything personal against Vets, just realistically it is a path that will appeal to those with the bully type personality by the nature of the job.

I am not a bully.

Getting a little tired of your generalizations.

It is a statement not an accusation. The fact is while there are a number of individuals that join for many reasons. The Military does in fact appeal to the type of personality that gets off on the possibility of getting into a fight and pushing people around. Many even do it because it increases their ability to get into law enforcement jobs where they get to spend a lifetime pushing people around.

Am I judging you personally? No I am not, I could care less about your reasons. I am just stating that there is a tendency.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: projectvxn

1/8 isn't anything to scoff at.

and that's from 2012. How many vets do you think keep their illness to themselves after coming back?

Sorry, but I believe MOST of who come back from war, who have seen action, have scarred psyches. Otherwise, you'd have to be a psychopath.

~Tenth

Depends on how much action you see. My convoy was hit by an IED. We had someone have shrapnel puncture his femoral artery and we had to put a tourniquet on him and get him medivaced out.

When I came back, I had a problem driving in my lane on the highway (we swerved under bridges and drove in the center of the road). Cannons made me jump a bit, but I got over those things. I'm fine now. You really can't know how you will cope with things until you are there and things happen. In my case, it was mostly boring until we had action, I spent most of my time reacting and following my training and little time worrying about danger and then when it was over I went back to being bored all the time.

a reply to: KeliOnyx

It is a statement not an accusation.

Sure felt like one considering the 'matter-of-fact' way you say such things.

The Military does in fact appeal to the type of personality that gets off on the possibility of getting into a fight and pushing people around.

That is absolutely not true.

I've worked with everyone from fuelers to special operations and have yet to meet anyone who fits that description. This is not to say that they aren't out there. But this is why we have the UCMJ.

Many even do it because it increases their ability to get into law enforcement jobs where they get to spend a lifetime pushing people around.

Am I judging you personally? No I am not, I could care less about your reasons. I am just stating that there is a tendency.

You're making sweeping judgments of my brothers and sisters. Most of whom are decent people who found a home and a sense of belonging in the military. It is pretty obvious to me that you are content to pass judgement on an incredibly diverse group of people before you even have facts to back up your accusations.

Would say its a combination of things .. from culture that glorifies violence .. lack of proper screening and training techniques ..

As to ptsd its existed as long as there have been wars .. war changes people in many ways .. just because someone may claim it hasnt changed them it has .. live with p.t.s.d from 4 tours with s.o.g in vietnam and what seen putting people back together in war zones over the years since .. theres a higher suicide rate among former spec ops than other type units because its viewed as weakness to talk about what one has seen / been through so they tend to bottle it up more ..

For any real change to occur society at all levels needs to take a good long hard look at themselves and make the effort to change for the better ..

a reply to: projectvxn

Kind of the way I am starting to feel about our military.

I am so sick of the elitist attitudes a majority of you guys that I have met and work with seem to have.

I am starting to believe that most of you are country destroying, cold blooded murderers. All in the name of the petrodollar and military industrial complex.

The more I think about it, maybe I don't really want you guys working for our police forces. A lot of the military members I work with seem to be extreme hot heads. Always looking down on people. Always trying to control.

I am starting to distrust you guys and I definitely will not allow my children to look to you as role models.

a reply to: projectvxn

You are making "sweeping generalizations" about "my brothers and sisters."

You seem to have no problem making generalizations about police officers, but get mad when someone makes generalizations about the military.

Interesting.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Most people in the military can do their jobs and be ok.

Anyone who can kill and be ok with it is a psychopath. Period.

a reply to: projectvxn
Pshh.. I wouldnt want a marine as a cop after they'd gone through the breakdown and rebuild of boot camp, let alone war!

You and I both know what they are trained for and it ain't being glorifies tax collectors (90 percent of policing). They want war to generate profit and theyve got an unnecessary war on drugs being waged. As many American are being killed by police each year as soldiers overseas.

Sounds like Kelli, Torquey and Handy are just trolls Project, don't feed the tards and they will waddle off elsewhere, esp since they're not contributing anything useful to the conversation

a reply to: Expat888
Well said. And the characteristics of a particular war (trench, jungle, urban, guerrilla) each come with slightly different sets of horrors and damages and from that different triggers. I'm very familiar with those who feel it's a weakness too ("But you don't get it. I'm their leader and "Doc." I can't show them that this is affecting me too because Iit's my duty to lead and help them.")

And by the way, it's also not just members of the military that comes out of wars with PTSD. So do the people who lived where things like death squads roamed, bombs dropped, home invasions and raids happened, F-whatevers and now drones rained hellfire out of the sky, and incarceration happened.

Yeah we need a good hard rethink of the consequences of the things we do that haunt for generations.


a reply to: TorqueyThePig

That "hot head" and elitist attitude thing is what I see in one particular friend of mine, to be honest the one that made me start thinking about this whole subject and looking at the reported incidents with that in mind, and at least another couple of officers I know. if he wasn't an old friend I'd be scared to death if he pulled me over for speeding or something.

a reply to: HomerinNC
I dunno. Haven't observed any trollish behavior here and know that at least 3 of the 4of their postings and opinions quite well. Def not trolls, just people with very experiences that contributed to some very strong opinions. This is the kind of subject that might bring this out.

a reply to: projectvxn

My dad probably had PTSD. You also never saw it in him... but he couldn't talk about things. Talking was something you would never get him to do...

But he was calm, quick to laugh and quick to love. Never flew off the handle or even raise his voice...

but he probably did have ptsd. Your right on all of what you said.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

True .. have seen and know several non-combatants who have ptsd from what they went through and what went on around them .. it affects everyone .. contrary to popular belief there are no winners in war ..

The other thing is they need to bring back community policing where the police actually know the people in the community and the community know the police with both working together .. would be far less distrust on both sides ..

a reply to: HomerinNC

Oh, because I have a different opinion then you I am a troll. I have been on ATS almost as long as you and contribute plenty. I thought you were better then that man.

My post was not off topic either. I am a police officer who works with ex military members. I am seeing an elitist and arrogant attitude from them.

They always seem to want to control people.

It is sickening.

By the way what did your post contribute to this thread, besides an ad hominem attack against me?

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I see day in and day out the way cops treat people.

You wanna talk elitist attitude? Cops beat and murder people, sexually abuse people, manufacture charges, and the ones not involved cover for them.

Seems to me the notion of the good cop is far from reality anymore.

Doesnt seem to me like cops do anything to police themselves. Story after story every single day.

a reply to: HandyDandy

2 things:

1. about 1 percent of the army is actually combat arms.

2. so if you kill a guy intent on doing you harm in self defense that makes you a psycho right?