John Mack and Alien Disclosure

a reply to: Astyanax

Sigh.

I'd even tried saving my post to the buffer first . . . alas . . . didn't seem to work . . . will just note

www.alienresistance.org...

with Guy Malone and researcher Joe Jordan outline effective protocols at the link

Youtube vids by them are here:

GUY MALONE’S YOUTUBE LIST OF VIDS:


www.youtube.com... 0...1ac.1.11.youtube.pul-p6LCH2I

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: AlienView

It was demonstrated in a fierce idiotic academic witch hunt

that Mack was

--absolutely sane
--absolutely professional
--absolutely solid in his research methodologies
--absolutely full of integrity toward his research subjects; toward the topic and regarding his position at Harvard.

IT WAS THE JERKS ON THE OTHER SIDE who lacked integrity; who were off the wall; who treated Dr Mack irresponsibly and underhandedly.

Guess who else comes from harvard, to name a few.. How intelligent are they?
Firepiston

a reply to: BO XIAN

Oh, I read your post — how else did I find the phrase I quoted? It was right in the middle.

I found it thoroughly entertaining, though the web site you linked to was a bit of a disappointment. Christian nut sites always are. They take excitingly weird ideas like alien abduction and try to explain it all with boring Bible stories.

a reply to: Astyanax

Yeah . . . the stubborn facts can be boring for folks who refuse to be influenced by the truth.

Mankind has been groping around for ever new justifications to be their own god and do their own thing for millenia.

Nevertheless . . . when the dust settles . . . THE TRUTH and THE FACTS will remain.

Nick Redfern's research was extensive. Those not reading it are missing out on a huge pile of evidence that drowns out all the pretenders and also rans.

Of course . . . many folks refuse to accept any evidence that doesn't fit THEIR assumptions, pretenses, fantasies . . . and other politically correct notions.

I don't think THE TRUTH gives a flip about politically correct.

a reply to: FirePiston

Harvard . . . the hotbed of globalist shills, stooges, agents, propagandists etc.

Who else were you thinking of? It's quite a list.

So, here we have someone that believes the stories he's been told with absolutely no actual evidence these stories are true. And we're supposed to give more weight to his belief because of his title or education?

This is only more believers scrambling to toss anything on top of the weak pile of existing "evidence" in hopes it will show this is really happening.

Sorry, it still only equals a belief.

There will never be any disclosure. None that the entire world will accept...and there doesn't need to be anyway. Its obvious.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I like Nick Redfern - to which book of his are you referring? It sounds interesting.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8


That's not quite fair. It was more the fact that as a psychologist he was unable to explain the accounts prosaically i.e the patients were not insane but they displayed symptoms that were indicative of actual trauma. When he had ruled out conventional explanations he had to consider the possibility that what the patients were telling him actually happened as they said it had.

a reply to: MarrsAttax


FINAL EVENTS SECRET GOVERNMENT DEMONIC UFOS AND AFTERLIFE

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1400863862&sr=1-4&keywords= nick+redfern

= = =

I'm keenly interested in your responses to it . . . privately or on a public thread.

imho, he does a top flight job of collecting the narratives and interviews together.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Actually . . . imho . . .

skeptics of your perspective

have absolutely no remotely viable explanation(s) for the EVIDENCE as Dr Mack and others have collected it.

"agin it" wears thin as an explanation, early on.

The better researchers have all let the narratives lead the way . . . then tried to wrap their interpretations around what the narratives presented.

I think their wishful thinking interpretations are off the wall seduced and wrong, manipulated by the critters and the powers that be.

However, at least they let the narratives lead the way and then tried to make sense of what was on the table.

Agin it.
Nope agin it.

Nope still agin it.

Nope more agin it.

Will always be agin it . . .

= = = =

How underwhelmingly unimpressive.

Life is incredibly complex.

Simplistic super-rationalist explanations wear thin almost out of the starting gate.

The critters and their goings on and 'technologies' may have a foundationally simple explanation.

However, their presentation and collaboration, collusions with the globalists toward the one world government and one world religion is not simple in a list of ways. They have been staging toward that for at least several hundred years.

The memes, paradigm shifts, propaganda, manipulations, wholesale change in cultural values . . . have been a major operation in depth, breadth and complexity. And the fruit born has been masterfully achieved.

The super rationalist naysaying perspectives will crash and burn as quick as a tumbleweed in a bonfire WHEN the PTB and the fallen angels pull that switch revealing a whole 'NOTHER level of the set of deceptions involved.

Trouble is, too many authentic Christians are not a great deal better prepared to understand the realities underneath the charades and manipulations.

Nick Redfern's

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1400863862&sr=1-4&keywords= nick+redfern

has ferreted out a great depth and breadth of facts, associations, values and goals involved.

Those with inadequate cosmology and eschatology will throw dust in the air and wail plaintively 'T'AIN'T SO' . . . but time will show otherwise.

He left few stones unturned and merely sought the evidence and followed where it led. Shockingly,

it kept leading back to

--the same foundation
--the same values
--the same goals
--the same PTB players
--the same memes
--the same themes
--the same relationships and associations
--the same devilish goings on . . . literally

I was shocked at how pervasive such was even though I'd reached the same conclusions 2-3 decades or more ago.

It wasn't just spots here and there; individuals and small groups here and there . . . it was across the board . . . even KENNETH ARNOLD. That was a shocker.

But hey . . . go ahead and pretend it's all smoke, mirrors, swamp gas and weather balloons. Maybe it will help one sleep better for a while longer.

It is interesting to observe chronic naysaying . . . as the vast bulk of the population world wide KNOWS otherwise is much more the case.

Ahhhh welllll . . . maybe the flat earthers can offer them some comfort. They seem to share a lot in common.

originally posted by: AlienView Was John Mack himself delusional - Or is he a pioneer in the field who was giving us disclosure of the truth

He was both. He really bought into the idea that aliens are our redeemers - wrong. But he is right in his basic thesis which is that they are abducting people. Incidentally, a woman claimed that she got in contact with him after he died and he said that he had got it wrong. What he was referring to is open to conjecture; that they were wrong about the alien's motives?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
EVEN I WAS UTTERLY SHOCKED at HOW MANY BIG NAMES in the early years of the phenomena had a VERY CURIOUS AND DIRECT CONNECTION TO THE OCCULT.

That included KENNETH ARNOLD.
It included the physicists heavily involved with the development of the atom bomb; rocketry etc.
It included high level ranking military and political figures.

I was shocked how many of them were close or frequent associates of

ALISTER CROWLEY

Can you provide links?

a reply to: EnPassant

That's all in Redfern's book:


www.amazon.com...=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1400863862&sr=1-4&keywords= nick+redfern

I had previously replied to a John Mack thread... which sought dialogue on the Alien Abduction phenomena

which is very close to the theme of "Alien Disclosure" of this thread...

in both cases, John Mack made a not unrealistic linkage between Alien Encounters (contact or abduction) with the fundamental reaction of our Human brain/mind...

i.e. our individual & collective mind create the 'Spirit Molecule' (produced by human brains) and have created these 'otherworldly' manifestations which are as-real-as the-day-is-long to the one who experiences these 'Aliens'/'Abduction' events

a reply to: St Udio

i.e. our individual & collective mind create the 'Spirit Molecule' (produced by human brains) and have created these 'otherworldly' manifestations which are as-real-as the-day-is-long to the one who experiences these 'Aliens'/'Abduction' events

Can you please clarify? Another-words what you are saying would probably not have have raised the problem for him at Harvard with his peers as that would indicate a form of self-delusion. My impression of what I've read on Mack is that he began to believe there was in fact a 'genuine external reality' to the abduction experience - He began to accept that individuals had in fact been abducted by entities not of their imagination.

He was ridiculed and ignored because this guy never had any direct or credible evidence, yet made bold claims that aliens had/have visited earth & he based it solely on hearsay and stories that other people told. Very unscientific & deserving of mocking.

originally posted by: LogicalRazor
He was ridiculed and ignored because this guy never had any direct or credible evidence, yet made bold claims that aliens had/have visited earth & he based it solely on hearsay and stories that other people told. Very unscientific & deserving of mocking.

THAT IS NOT TRUE - That is your statement devoid of the truth!

".........Mack advocated that Western culture required a shift away from a purely materialist worldview (which he felt was responsible for the Cold War, the global ecological crisis, ethnonationalism and regional conflict) towards a transpersonal worldview which embraced certain elements of Eastern spiritual and philosophical traditions.
Mack’s interest in the spiritual aspect of human experience has been compared by the New York Times to that of a previous Harvard professor, William James. Like James, Mack became controversial for his efforts to bridge spirituality and psychiatry.
This theme was taken to a controversial extreme [of course, I don't agree with this conclusion] in the early 1990s when Mack commenced his decade-plus study of 200 men and women who reported recurrent alien encounter experiences.
Such encounters had been reported since at least the 1950′s (the account of Antonio Villas Boas), and had seen some limited attention from academic figures (Dr. R. Leo Sprinkle perhaps being the earliest, in the 1960s). Mack, however, remains probably the most esteemed academic to have studied the subject.
Mack initially suspected that such persons were suffering from mental illness, but when no obvious pathologies were present in the persons he interviewed, Mack’s interest was piqued.
Following encouragement from longtime friend Thomas Kuhn (who predicted that the subject might be controversial, but urged Mack to simply collect data and temporarily ignore prevailing materialist, dualist and “either/or” analysis), Mack began concerted study and interviews.
Many of those Mack interviewed reported that their encounters had affected the way they regarded the world, including producing a heightened sense of spirituality and environmental concern.
Mack was somewhat more guarded in his investigations and interpretations of the abduction phenomenon than were the earlier researchers. Literature professor Terry Matheson writes that “On balance, Mack does present as fair-minded an account as has been encountered to date, at least as these abduction narratives go.” (Matheson, 251) In an undated interview, Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove stated that Mack seemed “inclined to take these [abduction] reports at face value”.
Mack replied by saying “Face value I wouldn’t say. I take them seriously. I don’t have a way to account for them.”Similarly, the BBC quoted Mack as saying, “I would never say, yes, there are aliens taking people. [But] I would say there is a compelling powerful phenomenon here that I can’t account for in any other way, that’s mysterious. Yet I can’t know what it is but it seems to me that it invites a deeper, further inquiry.”
Mack noted that there was a worldwide history of visionary experiences — especially in pre-industrial societies. One example is the vision quest common to some Native American cultures. Only fairly recently in Western culture, notes Mack, have such visionary events been interpreted as aberrations or as mental illness. Mack suggested that abduction accounts might best be considered as part of this larger tradition of visionary encounters.........."

See whole article here:
goldenageofgaia.com...

originally posted by: AlienView

originally posted by: LogicalRazor
He was ridiculed and ignored because this guy never had any direct or credible evidence, yet made bold claims that aliens had/have visited earth & he based it solely on hearsay and stories that other people told. Very unscientific & deserving of mocking.

THAT IS NOT TRUE - That is your statement devoid of the truth!

Kindly point me to where I can review direct factual evidence that can be tested, observed or analyzed. Other than the third person stories, dreams and fuzzy memories of alleged abductions, I mean.

a reply to: AlienView


here is a link where Prof. Mack was quite sure that Aliens, their manifestation to our intellectual consciousness... had a Spiritual framework...

I will eventually find the very clear writings where Prof Mack put both the Spirit Molecule visions And Alien Encounters experiences on par with each other... (i.e. were one in the same cause)


experiencers.com...