Jesus Christ: The Loving God of the Old AND New Testament

a reply to: windword

Jesus did say:

He was the only begotten Son of God

Him and the Father are one.

"The way to the Father is through me"

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Then you have John the Baptist saying:

"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Obviously Jesus didnt disagree with John the Baptist, cuz He went through with the baptism.

John 6
32Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.

Moses nor his god gave the true bread of life, but Jesus and his Father did. This is another jab at the OT by Jesus. Not only does he correct the OT law, but he also calls Abraham the devil and calls Moses' bread false.

John 10
8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Moses came before Jesus, Abraham came before Jesus, and Yahweh came before Jesus. He calls all of them thieves and robbers.

Jesus hardly believed the OT was the true word of God.

Can we please get back on topic guys, this thread is not about whether or not Jesus is the Son of God, or what being the Son of God encompasses,this thread is about how the God of the Old Testament is the same Loving God revealed in Jesus the Son of God as written in the New Testament

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Moses nor his god gave the true bread of life, but Jesus and his Father did. This is another jab at the OT by Jesus. Not only does he correct the OT law, but he also calls Abraham the devil and calls Moses' bread false.

Actually, Jesus is stating that the same Yaweh who gave bread from heaven in exodus is Jesus' Father.

This brings us back on topic. Jesus is one with the Father, and His Father is Yahweh. So Jesus is the same aleph-tav/alpha-omega found in the Old and New Testament.

Ps.

To GodLover25: My apologies for allowing myself to be lead off topic.

My last post for the night -

the heresy that many on this thread subscribe to, that the God of the OT, our Father in Heaven is somehow "evil" and only the New Testament can be accepted, is an ancient heresy almost as old as Christianity itself,

Many great and holy Orthodox Saints wrote on this subject, and Ecumenical counsels were even held proving it is heresy:

It's called Marcionism:

Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144[1] (see also Christianity in the 2nd century).

Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God, and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic, that is, they posit opposing gods, forces, or principles: one higher, spiritual, and "good", and the other lower, material, and "evil" (compare Manichaeism), in contrast to the orthodox Christian view that "evil" has no independent existence, but is a privation or lack of "good",[2] a view shared by the Jewish theologian Moses Maimonides.[3]

My last post for the night -

the heresy that many on this thread subscribe to, that the God of the OT, our Father in Heaven is somehow "evil" and only the New Testament can be accepted, is an ancient heresy almost as old as Christianity itself,

Many great and holy Orthodox Saints wrote on this subject, and Ecumenical counsels were even held proving it is heresy:

It's called Marcionism:

Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144[1] (see also Christianity in the 2nd century).

Marcion believed Jesus Christ was the savior sent by God, and Paul of Tarsus was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic, that is, they posit opposing gods, forces, or principles: one higher, spiritual, and "good", and the other lower, material, and "evil" (compare Manichaeism), in contrast to the orthodox Christian view that "evil" has no independent existence, but is a privation or lack of "good",[2] a view shared by the Jewish theologian Moses Maimonides.[3]

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Really, are sure you are "pretty sure"? Cuz Im pretty sure Jesus said this:
Matt 23:26 “You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

Except you were paraphrasing and adding in your own interpretations.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So why does Jesus say that everyone who came before him was a thief and robber? Moses came before Jesus, Abraham came before him as well. Jesus calls the Jews' father the devil and then goes on to name their father as Abraham.

Jesus corrects the errors of Moses' law and states that he didn't give the true bread of heaven. Moses shared the same god and father as the Jews he was speaking to in my first post.

All of this points toward Yahweh being the devil, Jesus never names his Father Yahweh.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Jesus did say:

He was the only begotten Son of God

No he didn't. He did say:

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Him and the Father are one.

So are we all. He never claimed to be one in the same as his father though.

I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Then you have John the Baptist saying:

"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Obviously Jesus didnt disagree with John the Baptist, cuz He went through with the baptism.

John the Baptist and Jesus are not one in the same. Jesus never claimed to take away the sins of the world. As a matter of fact, there is still sin in the world, so John the Baptist was wrong.

a reply to: windword

John the Baptist and Jesus are not one in the same. Jesus never claimed to take away the sins of the world. As a matter of fact, there is still sin in the world, so John the Baptist was wrong.

John the Baptist and Jesus were not the same person, but Jesus did say that John was the greatest of all the prophets.
I have to think that this would lend support to the veracity of John's testimony about him.
If the standard translation here, "takes away" was literally what it said in the Greek, then it would mean that Jesus was to forgive all the sins of the world.
Obviously it has to mean something else.
Looking at the verb form, John would have been saying "here is the lamb who is taking away the sins of the world".
He would not have been taking sins away at that moment, so the word should be translated according to one of its other meanings.
One of those could be to describe something raising up, such as the wheat crops coming up, ultimately from the ground but at any time while it was growing higher.
I think Jesus, just by being a human, was raising the acceptability of sinful flesh, in the eyes of God.

What is heretical and a blasphemy in the eyes of a believer of god is not automatically a heretical and a blasphemy in the eyes of god.

Isaiah 55:8. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Adonai. 9 “As high as the sky is above the earth are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For just as rain and snow fall from the sky and do not return there, but water the earth, causing it to bud and produce, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth — it will not return to me unfulfilled; but it will accomplish what I intend, and cause to succeed what I sent it to do.”

ADONAI
—used in place of YHWH as a name of the God of the Hebrews during prayer recitation

YHWH=the existing one. Not translated as "the Lord" that many bibles versions say.

Funny how the bible is in fact often miss translated from what it really said from the beginning.

originally posted by: godlover25

Eastern-New Age religion (which I group together because New Age tends to amalgamate aspects of Eastern Religion with traditional Western / Judeo-Christian belief together);
4) Hinduism
5) Buddhism
6) All others, new-age, Taoist, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto, Sikh

Please stop lumping "new age" in with eastern traditions. There is nothing "new" about them, nor do they have anything to do with (and in fact guard against) the egocentric teachings of the "new age" movement.

"New age", at it's core, manipulates the teachings of eastern religion/philosophy to serve the selfish desires of the individual. They teach a system of worldly reward based on an adherence to their own synthetic dogma.

This goes against everything taught by most denominations of Hinduism and Buddhism. They are NOT the same thing. "New age" is also a perversion of Taoist, Confucianist, and the other religions you lumped into the "etc." category (also very disrespectful).

As a Christian on ATS, you should be very aware of and sympathetic to having to defend your beliefs against the misrepresentations of those who are motivated to tear those beliefs down using dishonest and ignorant methods.

All that being said, I enjoyed the read.

a reply to: borntowatch

The Law of One is the only true law I know of and all moral justifications can be derived by it.

Matthew 7
12 “Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the Prophets.

Because all is connected to each other on one level or another. In the oneness all are one.

a reply to: Sump3

I agree with your reasoning. Belief/faith and reasons for why you do what you do is less important than the action of what you do.

originally posted by: godlover25
the heresy that many on this thread subscribe to, ...

Seriously still getting a good laugh at this ...
When the 'heresy' card is pulled, it really is funny no matter who pulls it.
One persons heresy is another persons truth ....
As far as the Muslims are concerned, you godlover25, are a heretic because
you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, divine incarnation.
Everyone is a heretic to someone ... including you.

Of course, he is so loving that if you refuse to love him back then
he will punish you for all eternity, that my friend is love.

That's how i treat my friends, if they don't consider me a friend then
i beat and keep them alive in my basement until they do, whats so
wrong about that? forcing peons to love you is the right of any
deity i mean, come on.

Religion is probably akin to Stockholm syndrome when you really
get down to it, fear and terror force humans to do whatever
it takes to be assured they wont have to be punished anymore.
In this case it happens to be supposed eternal punishment for
simple actions or even eternal salvation for those who commit
atrocities but decide they want to repent... what a useless ideal.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Heresy is any provocative belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs. A heretic is a proponent of such claims or beliefs.[1] Heresy is distinct from both apostasy, which is the explicit renunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion

People who claim to follow Jesus but have a view of him that is heretical are detrimental to Christendom and the reason why so many people view Christianity in a negative light.

wolves in sheeps clothing, wolves in sheep clothing.

a reply to: godlover25

I hate to say it my friend, but the reason people view Christianity negatively is purely because of the people who follow the religion... Nothing else...

Also the reason I will not claim that title by the way...

Know them by their fruits... Well Christianity has never produced good fruit since its creation

a reply to: godlover25

Not to disrespect, but to inform you.... Jesus is not a "GOD", never was, never will be. Jesus is the son of "GOD". The bible tells you that.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

YHWH=the existing one. Not translated as "the Lord" that many bibles versions say.

Funny how the bible is in fact often miss translated from what it really said from the beginning.

There are two versions of the Old Testament, one is in Hebrew, the other is in Greek, it is called the Septuagint.
The Greek Old Testament has "Lord" (kurios) where the Hebrew has YHWH.
So it is not a mistranslation.
If you look at Exodus 3:14 where in the English it says ". . . say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
In the Greek, it says the same thing.
So you could argue that YHWH is a translation from the "I am the one who is".
Either way, you get a standardized way of designating this particular person who was sent as the representative of God.