The Mysterious Skeleton Lake of the Himalayas

a reply to: horseplay

That is my thought as well, ambush while in around or on the lake.

They all gone stoned to death by maybe locals or a following/chasing army.
Then thrown into the lake.

Seems plausible from looking at the surrounding area.
Plenty of round rocks.
It just makes more sense to me than hail.

It says the injuries were all to the head and shoulders. If they were killed by hail, and they fell where they stood, wouldn't the hail also hit and break bones or cause traumatic injury in other areas of the body? It isn't like they could have died and continued standing upright.

Even the scenario another poster mentioned of being stoned from the rim of the lake would be the same....no way only injuries would be to the head and shoulders.

My thought is this was some sort of dump site for ritual sacrifices to some god of the time. They were killed with a blunt object to the head and dumped here, with the ritual possibly even being performed here at the time.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

well, i was thinking the same: they should have broken ribs.

But if they were on ice, and the hail hit, it would break the ice too.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Vasa Croe

well, i was thinking the same: they should have broken ribs.

But if they were on ice, and the hail hit, it would break the ice too.

I would think at least some of them would have at least put an arm up to block the hail as well and would result in broken arms. And if there were loved ones accompanying each other, I would think at least one of them would have shielded their significant other in some manner.

On another note, I was doing a little research on hail storms of the times and came across a very interesting article that I would highly recommend everyone on this thread reading. If you do search for hail you will see what is in it, but the entire article in general is fascinating.

One excerpt, though it is a couple hundred years off

When did these changes occur? That is a difficult question to
answer, since there was a complex of factors involved. It is
possible to suggest a general chronology of events, however.
There was an increased momentum in the Earth's rotation beginning
about 950. By the year 1000, this force had affected the
convection of the outer core to such a degree that the intensity
of the magnetic field began to increase and the magnetic pole to
shift rapidly. Some of this force began to reach the Earth's
surface in about 1050, and earthquakes became increasingly
frequent.

The air and water of the North Atlantic began to absorb some of
this momentum at this time and to shift southward. By about 1120,
this displacement had become substantial, and floods and
windstorms became relatively common events. By 1150, the warm air
of the Westerlies was no longer sufficient to block sudden forays
of arctic air into western Europe, and there was an ever-present
danger of severe hailstorms. By 1200, the transfer of momentum
and its compensation by a southward shift of winds and waters was
complete. Earthquakes grew more rare, extensive portions of
Scandinavia could no longer support agriculture, the growing
season in northwestern Europe had been reduced by three weeks or
more, and the average temperature had declined by almost three
degrees centigrade.

How valid is this reconstruction? It is certainly not
conclusive. Like any historical theory, it is an attempt to
explain an historical record. As is the case with any historical
record, our understanding of the geophysical past may change with
new discoveries and more sophisticated interpretations. For the
time being, however, this sequence of events provides a coherent
and relatively precise explanation of the deterioration of the
climate of medieval Europe.

But who is to say it was correct in the dating as the author says earlier in the article that this process started much earlier.

Similar, but shorter-lived, changes in core momentum have been
detected or inferred in modern times, so such massive events do
occur. Although there is no method at present of demonstarting
that such an event took place around 1000 A.D. it is clearly the
best available explanation of two significant geophysical
anomalies during the period: the intensification of geomagnetism
and a change in the rate of the Earth's rotational decay. Until a
better explanation is presented, we may assume that the momentum
of the Earth's inner core increased sometime around the year 1000
and ask ourselves what the effect of such an increase might have
been.

One effect would have been the displacement of the magnetic pole,
and this in fact occurred. The magnetic pole traces a complex
westwardly path around the celestial pole, but the velocity of
its movement correlates directly with geomagnetic intensity.12
From 300 to 900 A.D., the pole passed over fifty degrees of
longitude. During the next six hundred years, from 900 to 1500,
it travelled over two hundred and fifty degrees and moved from
the vicinity of Murmansk to northern Canada.14

Any increased momentum in the core would be distributed in time,
and we should expect some disturbances as part of that force was
transferred to the Earth's crust. As a matter of fact, the
chroniclers and annalists of northern Europe recorded an
increasing number of earthquakes from about 1100 to about 1130.
After 1130, they slowly became less frequent, and almost none
were noted after 1202. We can presume then that an increased
internal momentum began to reach the surface of the Earth in
about 1130 and that the process was substantially completed by
1200. What might the effects of this transfer be upon the waters
and winds?

Article

a reply to: Char-Lee
Why Not...
Known for using stones and sticks thrown as weapons.

1899: First Recorded Yeti Footprints

The first recorded Yeti footprints, still the most common evidence of the Yeti's existence, was in 1899 by Laurence Waddell. He reported in his book Among the Himalayas that the footprints were left by a large upright hominid. Waddell was, like Hodgeson, skeptical of the stories of the mysterious ape-man after talking to locals who had not actually seen a Yeti but had heard stories of them. Waddell figured the tracks were left by a bear.

Photo of a Yeti footprint from a 1951 climbing expedition to the Himalayas, Nepal.



climbing.about.com...

rom the 1920s through the 1950s there was a lot of interest in both climbing the great Himalayan peaks, including the fourteen 8,000-meter peaks, as well as trying to find evidence of the Yeti. Many great Himalayan climbers saw Yetis, including Eric Shipton; Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay on the first ascent of Mount Everest in 1953; British climber Don Whillans on Annapurna; and the great alpinist Reinhold Messner. Messner first saw a yeti in 1986 as well as later sightings. Messner later wrote the book My Quest for the Yeti in 1998 about his Yeti encounters, explorations, and thoughts on the elusive Yeti.

First Detailed Yeti Report in 1925

N.A. Tombazi, a Greek photographer on a British expedition to the Himalayas, made one of the first detailed reports about the Yeti in 1925 after observing one on a mountainside at 15,000 feet.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

The area is shaped like a bowl, if there were ambushers all around the top they could have you all pened in the middle. Sounds like what Yeti are said to do, pelting with stones.

Aren't they also known to avoid humans? I don't know if a cautious yeti is going to approach 300 humans and wipe them out with stones.

a reply to: Char-Lee

that footprint, to me, looks like a regular old footprint that has begun melting. Unless yeti's are reported to walk in feet shaped like blocks.

Everest is covered in corpses.

None caused by rock pitching sasquatches or bowling ball sized hail stones.

I don't know what killed these people but I do know that in ancient times and (probably even today), hailstorms were a major source of trouble in the Himalayan region. They devastate crops, mostly barley, and part of the job of the prominent yogis (ngagpas) of the area was "bad weather prevention" in the form of keeping hailstorms off the crops.

This had something to do with dragons and other nagas connected with water and weather. In Chinese and Tibetan art the dragon is often associated with clouds.

en.wikipedia.org...:Nine-Dragons1.jpg



honolulumuseum.org...



Clouds like this, in a photo taken from the air over the Himalayas, suggest one reason why this might be so.

www.theepochtimes.com...



Part of the black arts of the period (a period that never ended) was actually sending bad weather against enemies. As has been stated, hail storms can be lethal and weather weapons are not a modern invention.

a reply to: Domo1

I see dead people.

An amusing story in connection to Himalayan weather modification practices happened in Toronto many years ago. The region was in the throes of a prolonged dry period, so much so that it was being commented on in the newspapers and on TV. Our lama wanted to help so he did a ceremony aimed at the "nagas" (water spirits) of the area, requesting that they exert themselves to produce some rain.

Part of the procedure involved one of his students taking a bottle of water down to Lake Ontario and dumping it in the lake. The student was supposed to put a little water in every day, but through some communication error, dumped the whole bottle out at once.

He said that as he was doing so, he got absolutely drenched with rain.

I used to have the newspaper clippings (because I thought nobody would believe this story) along the line of Drought Continues, No Relief In Sight and the following day, Yesterday's Cloudburst Will Have Little Effect. It was the source of a few laughs around the center for a couple of days.

As Shakespeare said:

www.shakespeare-online.com...

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8)

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Char-Lee

that footprint, to me, looks like a regular old footprint that has begun melting. Unless yeti's are reported to walk in feet shaped like blocks.

A lot of wise people listed with reports of sightings, all liers?

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: Char-Lee

The area is shaped like a bowl, if there were ambushers all around the top they could have you all pened in the middle. Sounds like what Yeti are said to do, pelting with stones.

Aren't they also known to avoid humans? I don't know if a cautious yeti is going to approach 300 humans and wipe them out with stones.

Maybe things were different back then, maybe there was more of them or this place was somehow important to them.

Just a thought.

a reply to: Char-Lee

I don't think the word "lie" or "liar" was used in my post.

can't we just not agree and be ok with that?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm with you on that. I find it very hard to believe that everyone was killed and no one was able to hide under a body or shield/what have you. I need to read the article again, but I was under the impression that the only injuries were to the head/upper body. I would think hail that severe would cause a few breaks in other bones.

The dump site also seems somewhat implausible as there were two distinct groups. I guess I mean I don't think it was a ritual burial ground since there was such a lack of diversity. Perhaps a party was accosted and killed ritualistically and all dumped at the same time. A good point was made that bodies would certainly fall into/around the lake as the place looks to be essentially a natural funnel.

I also find it a bit odd that the bodies were so well preserved. I would think if not immediately inaccessible to scavengers they would have been picked clean.

I've never experienced large hail, but obviously it can be deadly. I've been hit with some hail that hurt like crazy and was relatively tiny. We've all seen pictures of cars that were pretty much decimated by hail.

Stranger things have happened than a whole party being wiped out by a hail storm, but I do still find a number of the circumstances surrounding this incident odd. I'm not going Yetti but I would expect at least a few people would have had the time to shelter under pack equipment/bodies. The lack of damage to anything but the upper body seems rather strange.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I don't think the word "lie" or "liar" was used in my post.

No it wasn't hence the ? in mine.

Sure we can agree to not agree, we do that all the time right?

The article doesn't go into details on why the researchers came up with hailstones. 9 inches in diameter is Very large - that is so large for a hailstone it is thought to be almost impossible to believe - even for scientists - as this article shows:

The largest hailstones on record are between 5 and 8 inches and yet - they are not common almost not verifiable. ( could be hoaxes) Record Largest Hailstone Falls near Gotebo, Oklahoma on May 23, 2011
www.srh.noaa.gov...

So now, they want me to believe enough of these 9 inch hail stones ( big as a bowling ball mind you) fell to kill 300 people?

No, I'm not buying it. More like they needed something sensational for more grant money as is often the case.

They mention pits on the skulls but a 9 inch hailstone would not leave a pit - it would take your head clean off.

I'm sure these scientists need to go back to kindergarten and start over because they got it Wrong.

Am I missing something? Maybe I swallowed a stupid pill today, but did all or most of the skeletons have trauma to the head? And nowhere else? That's some pretty accurate hail.

I thought hail that size only formed in super cell thunder storms.

9 inches is quite big, and you need the huge updraft of a super cell to keep it aloft long enough to get that big.

Super cells normally form over flatter areas where warm moist air meets cold air from the north (IE the midwestern region of the US is a great example).

I know much of India is warm, and the air coming down from the Himalayas would be cold, and super cells could form down in the lower elevations of India itself......

But up in the Himalayas? Do they get super cells like that over the mountains there?

How many theories have we been through on Otzi? This sounds like it will go the same way.

Hail stones ain't doing it for me. Possible but unlikely. The Yeti? Everyone knows Yeti's don't go out in hail storms so that rules it out.