Large number of Chinese troops seen heading for China-Vietnam border

originally posted by: MessageforAll
By now its obvious that Russia just showed the world ( China ) that the US has lost its place as supreme power.
At the very beginning of the Ukraine I read a article of some analytically guy who said that the American response to the situation in Ukraine would set a precedent for the future.

And it has happened. Russia just said F U to the US and he's getting away with, Putin is openly attacking the US dominance. And China sees clearly they can do what they want and the USA won't do a damn thing.

Interesting times indeed.

Well if Vietnam was a US ally that might hold some weight but, it does not. Vietnams main backer is Russia. Vietnam is vital to Russias arms markets, it just sold them the so called blackhole subs. China was not happy about that because they were bought to counter China of course. Vietnam has been flirting with the US because it is losing faith in Russia ability to back it. What Vietnam sees is the US doing what it wants and Russia being helpless to stop them and not even trying until NATO literaly wandered into Russias own backyard. Iraq, Libya gone without a peep from Russia. Instead of defending Syria Russia chose to sell out the Syrian WMD programs. As soon as this happened Iran saw they could be next and went to the West because if they were going be sold out by the Russians for nothing they might as well do it themselves and get something.

So what you have here is China challenging a Russian client for the first time. If Russia fails to back Vietnam, Vietnam will go though ASEAN for Western support and that will end Russia's ties to Vietnam. So if your China you see Russia as to weak to protect Vietnam so then also to weak to control them. If Russia was replaced by the US in Vietnam then the Chinese would expect that the US would be be able to stop Vietnam from being agressive with security guarantees. That is why you put the fear of invasion into Vietnam and not just make this a naval thing. Knowing the US will not allow a larger conflict to come from some minor clashes at sea.

Remember you have to look at geopolitics from a global persepctive. US politics has nothing to do with it. In the eyes of the world the US has Russia backed into a hole and China sees a chance make the hole even smaller. Because China knows sooner or later the real threat is Russia and its buddy India.

Yes, fanning the flames of China and Russia-phobia. The Department of "Defense" loves that.

Open the Coffers. Fire up the Factories for War. Invaaaaasion!!!

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I agree with you, however they will need to be supplied with arms and supplies to have any hope.

a reply to: Fiberx

Look, as I said before, when people hear the news they think linear, they see problem before their eyes, but fail to see what lies further down the road.

A few key events are taking place right now, and I'm 100% certain it all comes down to the unfair advantage of the US over the world namely :

the Petrodollar.

As always look at the timing, China just happened to place a 1 billion dollar oil right in the vietnam waters the same week as word got out of the holygrail gas deal with RUSSIA.

Russia's Holy grail gas deal with china one digit away

Then we have this :
Venezuela signs deal to provide Palestinian Authority with oil

Then we have this one aswell :
Pakistan defends Iran gas pipeline deal

Remember, Venezuela despises the US and would love nothing more then to trade oil/gas with something else then the Dollar,
Palestina hates Israel -> the US.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Oh Vietnam would have absolutely no hope in repelling an invasion. That's like saying Cuba could Repel the United States, and we'd have the added complication of no direct land crossing. The outcome is still never in question.

Keeping Vietnam? Ahh... I wish them lots of......learning time. Yes... A lesson they'll get if they think holding that tiger by the tail will be any easier for them.

a reply to: MrSpad

I will give this some thought, nice write up!

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
why not last time the Vietnamese and China fought the Chinese ended up giving up and going back home after six weeks of failing to pacify the locals


time.com...

In the winter of 1978, when Deng Xiaoping made his threat of a “lesson,” more than 80,000 Chinese troops were sent across the border into Vietnam. Chinese Deputy Defense Minister Su Yu boasted of being able to take Hanoi in a week, but the untested and under-equipped People’s Liberation Army (PLA) met fierce resistance from battle-hardened Vietnamese forces deployed across the frontier’s limestone karsts. The Chinese were slaughtered by local militia from positions that had been utilized for centuries against invaders from the north. “More Chinese soldiers were getting killed because they were fighting like it was the old times,” says Vietnamese veteran Nguyen Huu Hung, who witnessed the PLA’s human waves being mown down near the city of Lang Son. “They were in lines and just keep moving ahead … they didn’t run away.” It would take just six weeks for Beijing to call off its “self-defensive counteroffensive.” Teaching the Vietnamese a lesson turned out to be a costly affair. Official casualty statistics have never been released by either Beijing or Hanoi; however, analysts have estimate that as many as 50,000 soldiers died during the confrontation. “I heard that [China] said they wanted to teach Vietnam a lesson, but I can’t see what the lesson was,” says Hung. “Our job was to fight against them. But the losses, to be honest, were huge.”

same people that rocked us and the french in Vietnam war then chased out the Chinese shortly there after and as far as i can tell the Chinese have not changed the human wave tactic of old

a reply to: intrptr

Nice! The war department sure did like making war.

But, what currency will fund it though? I recall Saudi Arabia wanting to hire our military as mercenaries and invade Syria, and our bankroll was a little small.

a reply to: Not Authorized

But, what currency will fund it though?

The current one of debt.

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Why not for repelling an invasion? 80,000 Chinese then would be a whole different thing now. Tibet was once a proud nation too. It actually no longer exists at all. I was shocked to see that on a map at college. I guess I'd not kept up on all the changes over the years..but it will always be the nation that got erased to my thinking.

China tried to teach a lesson with 80,000 and it wasn't worth pursuing. A full blown invasion? Well, it'll never happen anyway but war gaming the worst scenario wouldn't leave Vietnam with a population center unoccupied by the end of a weeks time, I'd guess. Much like America and Iraq.

Then what makes the Vietnamese stand out in history, comes into play. They just don't know how to lose....lol

Why would Taiwanese factories be burned down? I would think that the Vietnamese should know that it's not actually a part of China. Is this similar to Sikhs being targeted in revenge for 9/11? *rolls eyes

I predict much lies on all sides followed by
even more lies.. followed by..................


...and then nothing will really have happened.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

wait they are actually taking Tibet off maps now? that is horrible.

yeah that is a good point to make if they make a go of it again they will send more and not as many vets in Vietnam these days but they are a very proud people who have pulled off amazing upsets in the past. hey and how many countries get to display wrecked b-52's as a waring to other nations that trifling with them may end badly . i am unsure how ties to Russia are with Vietnam so they could be a wildcard in the matter.

also of note it doesn't help that china can walk to Vietnam vs having to use boats or air to invade it just seems the way into Vietnam from china is kind of a bad place to try to push through

didnt we help vietnam build some civilian nuclear power plants a few years ago?www.fas.org... its a pdf but i guess we either are or are debating helping them,as well as TEPCO (from japan) and russian firms are also helping Vietnam expand its nuclear power capabilities so they seem to have a lot more international friends this go around compared to the last time they fought

edit to add them having nuclear power is not in any way to say that they are making nuclear weapons as the programs restrict such actions as well as vietnamese law banning creation of nuclear weapons

China probably stages the whole thing.

Tell me why not. China has counterfeited every single product and activity known to man. You think they wont ever copy US foreign policy?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Indeed there are more ethnic han than Tibetans there now and the State ordered sterilization of the Tibetan woman and men has also reduced there numbers by preventing the next generation from being born.
What they do there is the same as Hitler intended to do in Russia and Europe, a systematic ethnic cleansing of many areas and a deliberate resetlement of there own dominant race and culture into the area to exunge all traces of the past and make it part of there nation.
And yet our own industrialist betrayed us to take advantage of the cheap labour they offered at the cost of our job's and long term economy's while empowering an inhumane system and giving it the economic power and wealth to ensure that it would attain dominance of the globe, think about them like a blind dragon eating it's own tail until they swallow themselves entirely but the dragon's body is the west and it's head is at last revealed as china.

a reply to: MrSpad

What are you talking about? Why are you spreading misinformation? China, and Russia, are about to sign a pipeline deal, that has been 10 years in the making.

And now, on what could be the literal eve of that deal, they are going to play war footsie? And screw that all up? Right.

Not every nation is obsessed with war. Grow up.

The Chineese are likely going on the Psychic predictions that the plane crashed and is sitting in tall weeds with its tail section broken off,they are going to make a push into the area they believe the plane and its human intel went down hoping for and just maybe already aware fo survivors.

a reply to: intrptr

Which one will back the next war? SDR'S or USD'S? Which is Obama currently peddling? Is their competition for the next reserve currency?

The petrodollar is dead. We wouldn't finance another war, even if we could. That was what Syria told us.

Its safe to say this latest problems between china/Vietnam stem from China's oil plant off Vietnam.Obviously a bullying move meant to intimidate the Vietnamese,who don't exactly play that.

Having read the article, there are a few things that should be stated:

There are a few countries that one goes into with a military aggressive nature that have demonstrated time and time again, that it is a bad idea, as it is not a good idea. Vietnam is one of those countries. The USA went into that country and it was fought to a stalemate/losing situation where the USA had to leave it unfinished and unresolved.

China is flexing its military muscles, seeing how far it can go and what all it can get away with before someone either takes a swing. If it does result in conflict, this is not going well for either side.