Conspiracy Theorists Vindicated: HAARP Confirmed Weather-manipulation Tool

Weather modification seems the least likely application of the HAARP research and this video proves absolutely nothing. My pet theory has been that one of the things they'd be most interested in studying was the creation and utilization of artificial ionospheric ducts. The most likely applications for technology developed using this research are really in communication. Do a little reading into RF propagation and you'll understand the importance of the ionosphere for long distance radio communication.

Ironically, I was just looking for a source I no longer had bookmarked and I stumbled on a paper titled Formation of artificial ionospheric ducts, here's the abstract:

[1] It is well known that strong electron heating by a powerful HF-facility can lead to the formation of electron and ion density perturbations that stretch along the magnetic field line. Those density perturbations can serve as ducts for ELF waves, both of natural and artificial origin. This paper presents the first experimental evidence of plasma modifications associated with ion outflows due to HF heating. The experiments were conducted using the HAARP heater during times that the DEMETER satellite flying at an altitude of approximately 670 km was close to the magnetic zenith of HAARP. The DEMETER satellite has provided in situ measurements of the ion temperature and composition. The experimental results are compared with the numerical model of inter-hemispheric artificial ducts, and it is found that they are in qualitative agreement.

The paper can be read here.

So I guess maybe my hunch was right and I completely missed my calling. It doesn't sound as scary as weather control, but there are some sinister enough implications if you use your imagination.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

A phased array of a few square miles, on top of a natural gas field, could put a lot of energy at a specific point thousands of miles away.

How would it do that? The beam from the array could be steered about 30º from vertical. How do you hit a specific point thousands of miles away by doing that?

While phasing can reduce side lobe transmission, it does not create a tight beam. The beam still spreads. The array covered an area of about 30 acres. Typically, by the time the beam reached an altitude of 100 km it had spread to an area of 233,000 acres (with the appropriate loss of power density). Much less spread than would occur without phasing but hardly a "specific point."

So the TESLAs could be a disperse until ready to blast tactic.

What?

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: jude11
That's not an article. It's a blog post. And the statement is from a blogger who is...who, exactly?

Catherine J Frompovich (website) is a retired natural nutritionist who earned advanced degrees in Nutrition and Holistic Health Sciences, Certification in Orthomolecular Theory and Practice plus Paralegal Studies.

Oh. Never mind.

Whatever happens here one thing is sure, they won't just stop manipulating weather.

There is no weather in in the ionosphere. Well, except for space weather.

Are you suggesting then this tool can finally control space rain?!


I am actually a bit sad that HAARP can't do what the conspiracy crowd claims...being able to control earths weather would be amazingly useful if it could be cheap and effective. calm hurricanes, bring rain to the desert regions and regularly scheduled showers over farmland, keep coastal communities dry during weekends for tourism, etc...but alas, we are not there yet.
Still, one can hope in science, and dream in conspiracys

I'm one who believes that. The Sun provides the solar wind - a stream of positively and negatively charged particles. When these reach the atmosphere they ionize atoms (thus the ionosphere). When oxygen atoms are ionized, they will combine with protons to form water H2O. These will interact with dust to form water droplets and rain, which would cool down the atmosphere.

HAARP would act like a transistor and affect the ionosphere directly above Alaska, and the jet stream.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

AEGIS isn't a radar, it's a weapons system.

The rest..I have no idea what you're trying to say!

a reply to: theantediluvian

My pet theory has been that one of the things they'd be most interested in studying was the creation and utilization of artificial ionospheric ducts.

Yup.

Also things like interfering with orbital SA radar. Lots of potential for keeping the bad guys from getting a good look at your stuff.

Of course, there was the more mundane stuff like learning about how the Sun affects the ionosphere. Maybe even enhancing electron precipitation to reduce the effects of solar storms on satellites.
vlf.stanford.edu...

And no, precipitation does not mean rain.

a reply to: jude11

Oh my...a thread that misunderstands HAARP and the very video it is quoting.

No...this has nothing to say about weather modification nor was it spoken about in this video.

This is why "conspiracy folks" are often mocked and called illogical. They invent and misquote material.

MM

a reply to: stormcell

When these reach the atmosphere they ionize atoms (thus the ionosphere).

Those charged particles are ions and they are captured by the magnetosphere. That's what the Van Allen belts are. The ionosphere is ionized by electromagnetic radiation, not solar particles.

When oxygen atoms are ionized, they will combine with protons to form water H2O.

It's a lot more simple than that. When hydrogen burns it forms water.

These will interact with dust to form water droplets and rain, which would cool down the atmosphere.

How can water droplets form in space?

HAARP would act like a transistor and affect the ionosphere directly above Alaska, and the jet stream.

What sort of transistor? PNP or NPN? JFET? The jet stream is 10s of miles below the ionosphere.

Phage

Ok maybe no beam we can see.


However, there is no doubt that bouncing 6-7 hz off the ionosphere will have some kind of affect. Come on Tesla was for real and the experiments he tried were awesome. I bought the patent book of his, interesting read. I understand 6-7 hz to be where human and animal brain wavelengths are coincidently.

You can't put Tesla back into Pandora's box. His concepts had military applications. Pure and simple.

Why is it I fall on the side of following the hard data wherever ever the truth leads us yet seem to be on the opposite of phage? Phage is using some good logic yet seems to stop at "it can't be true, move along"', a whole lot. True some of this stuff is absolute crap and phage is good to make you consider the skeptical side. But bouncing energy off the ionosphere has to be something that gets a reaction back from the dynamic system our world is wrapped. The "Butterfly Affect" has some merit in the theoretical realm of possibilities.

However, there is no doubt that bouncing 6-7 hz off the ionosphere will have some kind of affect.

HAARP did not transmit at 6-7 hz it transmitted at 10-30 Mhz, the high frequency band. And it didn't bounce, the whole point is for the ionosphere to absorb the radio energy, not reflect it. That's why those wavelengths were used.

You can't put Tesla back into Pandora's box. His concepts had military applications.

Tesla again. HAARP has nothing to do with Tesla. Tesla didn't believe that the ionosphere exists. The entire purpose of HAARP is (was) to study the ionosphere. Tesla didn't believe that radio waves would be of any use for anything except short range communications. In his time the the ionosphere was known as the Heaviside layer and radio waves were known as Hertz waves.

Terrestrial phenomena which I have noted conclusively show that there is no Heaviside layer, or if it exists, it is of no effect.

As regards signaling without wires, the application of these radiations for the purpose was quite obvious. When Dr. Hertz was asked whether such a system would be of practical value, he did not think so, and he was correct in his forecast. The best that might have been expected was a method of communication similar to the heliographic and subject to the same or even greater limitations.

The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognized as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history.

www.tfcbooks.com...

a reply to: Justoneman

Why is it I fall on the side of following the hard data wherever ever the truth leads us yet seem to be on the opposite of phage?

What hard data would that be?

a reply to: Phage

Ahh, 10-30 hz,,,, that too.

The hard data is

1 Tesla invented some interesting toys
2 the US Navy uses one
3 It bounces energy by focusing the array at various wavelengths
4 there is an opposite reaction law in Physics

You do make interesting arguments and I love the debate when I get time to get on this site. But I would love to see you more open minded and less inclined to be so negative. We don't have to agree to have fun either.

a reply to: Justoneman
I'm open minded when there is something to be open minded about. HAARP controlling weather? Not so much. Only ignorance can lead there.

a reply to: Justoneman

1 Tesla invented some interesting toys
2 the US Navy uses one
3 It bounces energy by focusing the array at various wavelengths
4 there is an opposite reaction law in Physics

1) Yes. Tesla coils are cool toys. AC generators are also cool but not toys.
2) No.
3) No. It directed energy at the ionosphere in order to heat a small region of it.
4) I assume you are talking about Newton's third law? Yes, there is. What does it have to do with HAARP?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Justoneman
I'm open minded when there is something to be open minded about. HAARP controlling weather? Not so much. Only ignorance can lead there.

I think an ignorance of the way things work in the military is more likely here. It is very dangerous to act like the military would not be doing things to manipulate the weather at this point in our technological advancement. Very silly to think the Russians and Chinese are lying when they make claims as to their ability in these matters. Not lost on me here is the apparent Treaties to not alter the weather of another sovereign nation. Something to see here after all IMHO.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Justoneman

1 Tesla invented some interesting toys
2 the US Navy uses one
3 It bounces energy by focusing the array at various wavelengths
4 there is an opposite reaction law in Physics

4) I assume you are talking about Newton's third law? Yes, there is. What does it have to do with HAARP?

It means everything, as energy is what it is and using it to focus at any wavelength will have any affect is what I mean quite simply.

I guess what I mean is there is a reaction of some kind depending on the wavelength that may be unique to the wavelength. AND if they test it at any wavelength, surely they will find the sweet spots.

a reply to: Justoneman

It is very dangerous to act like the military would not be doing things to manipulate the weather at this point in our technological advancement.

I'm not saying they wouldn't, though as you point out there is a treaty concerning its use in warfare. I'm saying that HAARP has nothing to do with it.

Very silly to think the Russians and Chinese are lying when they make claims as to their ability in these matters.

You mean cloud seeding? Yes, and commercial companies make claims about it as well. Pretty hard to tell if it actually really does anything though.

Not lost on me here is the apparent Treaties to not alter the weather of another sovereign nation.

One treaty, ENMOD. It was drafted as a result of US cloud seeding efforts during the Vietnam war.

a reply to: Justoneman

It means everything, as energy is what it is and using it to focus at any wavelength will have any affect is what I mean quite simply.

Then you are talking about resonance, not Newton's third law.

As I said, a phased array can reduce the spreading of a radio beam. It can't focus it. Like this:
www.met.reading.ac.uk...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Justoneman

It is very dangerous to act like the military would not be doing things to manipulate the weather at this point in our technological advancement.

I'm not saying they wouldn't, though as you point out there is a treaty concerning its use in warfare. I'm saying that HAARP has nothing to do with it.

Very silly to think the Russians and Chinese are lying when they make claims as to their ability in these matters.

You mean cloud seeding? Yes, and commercial companies make claims about it as well. Pretty hard to tell if it actually really does anything though.

Not lost on me here is the apparent Treaties to not alter the weather of another sovereign nation.

One treaty, ENMOD. It was drafted as a result of US cloud seeding efforts during the Vietnam war.

Believe what you will. The scientists of the world are testing ideas daily that involve Tesla's inventions. Energy is being sent out from arrays that may have unintended consequences.