No One Is Able To Snatch Them Out Of My Hand.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them.

It sounds like so much mumbo jumbo designed to make people think that they need to be dependent on priests who supposedly have it all sorted out.
Unless you could explain it yourself, rather than just being able to copy and paste it.

I'll try not to be offended but a person is grasping when they use a word like "mumbo jumbo." The explanation from the Catechism is beautiful.

Don't like the quote, I'll say it in my own words at your request. The Blessed Trinity is one God in three divine
persons. A mystery for our minds, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus' words in the
Gospel:

Matthew 28:19
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Did you all know there was a rebellion in the Old Testament, it is called Korah's Rebellion, read Numbers 16. Moses rebukes Korah and says to him that he should be thankful that he is a deacon but that he should not seek to raise himself to the level of a priest (v10)! This is the very thing a Protestant would say against the Catholic clergy, "you raise yourself above everyone else; everyone is equal!" The only way Jude's warning of a modern Korah's rebellion makes any sense is if there will be Christians who try to usurp the second rank of priesthood.

There are three priesthoods like in the Old but far greater in the New Covenant...

High priest in the New IS Our Lord

Ministerial priests like Aron are the Catholic priesthood

Royal priesthood of believers, are all believers

The KJV translators changed the original word "priest" as found in the New Testament to "elder." Protestantism has no ministerial priesthood to offer sacrifice.

When Christianity comes together at the "awakening", Our Lord, Our Shepherd will bring the Orthodox and Protestant sheep home. It is prophesied.

a reply to: colbe

I'll try not to be offended but . . .

If you had the spirit of God you wouldn't be.

. . . a person is grasping when they use a word like "mumbo jumbo."

Not if it actually is mumbo jumbo.

Don't like the quote, . . .

Because you do not demonstrate the ability to understand it yourself.

Ministerial priests like Aron are the Catholic priesthood

That's not the New Testament.

Protestantism has no ministerial priesthood to offer sacrifice.

Episcopalians do.
But where does it say in the New Testament that anyone other than Jesus offers anything to God as sacrifice?

The point that I was trying to get at in my earlier post was that there are no mysteries.
There were, but then Jesus answered them.

a reply to: jmdewey60

But where does it say in the New Testament that anyone other than Jesus offers anything to God as sacrifice?

All over the place actually...

The general idea Jesus put forth was that the needs of others outweighs your own...

He even stated the greatest sacrifice... that being one who lays down his life for another...

The first will be last, and the last will be first... Pretty much his entire message was about internal sacrifice...

Giving up your own needs for the needs of others

a reply to: Akragon

Giving up your own needs for the needs of others

You have to read the fine print.
Are you serving as a priest offering that nice thing you just did directly to God?
I think you just offered someone else that nice thing that you had, and felt that someone else needed more.
Jesus as our priest accumulates all those things that his followers do, and then offers them to God.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Sounds like Paul to me...

a reply to: Akragon

Sounds like Paul to me...

It's pseudo-Paul.
Whoever was writing the later books of the New Testament that were meant to seem like Paul had written them, such as Ephesians, where I was getting my inspiration for my thread on sacrifice.

a reply to: jmdewey60

SO if im not considering Paulish material...

Why would I worry about the "fine print"?

a reply to: Akragon

SO if im not considering Paulish material...

Why would I worry about the "fine print"?

I meant the details of what I was saying in response to colbe.
I just thought that you weren't really following the argument.
If you are not interested in the priest metaphor, then don't worry about it.
I'm trying to deal with people who believe that there is a literal priesthood.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

SO if im not considering Paulish material...

Why would I worry about the "fine print"?

I meant the details of what I was saying in response to colbe.
I just thought that you weren't really following the argument.
If you are not interested in the priest metaphor, then don't worry about it.
I'm trying to deal with people who believe that there is a literal priesthood.

There is a New Testament Priesthood that some Christians (Protestants) deny. God doesn't change, like in the
Old Covenant but far greater in the New Covenant. History shows there is a ministerial priesthood to offer
Sacrifice (the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass). Protestants have no ministerial priests, they reject the faith.

In both Old and New Testaments, there are three ranks of priests, which are commonly referred to as the high priests, the ministerial priests, and the universal priests.

At the time of the Exodus the high priest was Aaron (Ex. 31:30), the ministerial priests were his four sons (Ex. 28:21; the sons were Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar, the first two of which were killed for abusing their priestly duties), and the universal priests were the people of Israel as a whole (Exodus 19:6).

a reply to: colbe

Why do you have priests when Jesus said this?

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

a reply to: colbe

Protestants have no ministerial priests, they reject the faith.

I don't know why you keep saying that after I already told you that Episcopalians do.

. . . the universal priests were the people of Israel as a whole (Exodus 19:6).

In the Septuagint, it says "a royal priesthood", so I don't know where you get the "universal" thing from.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

Protestants have no ministerial priests, they reject the faith.

I don't know why you keep saying that after I already told you that Episcopalians do.

. . . the universal priests were the people of Israel as a whole (Exodus 19:6).

In the Septuagint, it says "a royal priesthood", so I don't know where you get the "universal" thing from.

One example, the Episcopal Church. Their minsterial priesthood is NOT valid, they are a Protestant denomination with no Apostolic Succession (the laying on of hands) from the Apostles. And look at the state of their beliefs! A gay
Episcopal bishop in the news is divorcing his partner, a man!!

Now reply to, what about the rest of Protestantism? The tens of thousands of other groups, first the original splits, Lutherans, Methodists, next the Pentecostal and Evangelical denominations (denomination is Protestant word for the break aways in Protestantism). Imagine, another term for further splits, you have the non-denominations and today we even further splits, home churches! NONE of them have a ministerial priesthood.

What are you doing speaking of the Septuagint? Protestantism threw out the Septuagint? Always the mix, you
have go back to the faith. Catholicism kept the Septuagint, the Alexandrian Canon not as Luther did later, he used
the excuse to throw out 7 books of the Old Testament because the Palestinian Jews rejected Christ removed the Septuagint, the Palestinian Jews were afraid of Christianity, deny Christ. Our Lord quoted the Septuagint often.

The real reason Martin Luther threw out those 7 books of the OT, they came against his new teachings.

It is the same, the royal priesthood of believers is the universal priesthood of believers.

Again, in the New Covenant, there are three priesthoods, the High priest, Our Lord, the ministerial priesthood who offer Sacrifice which is the office of the New Covenant Catholic priesthood, ordained, in succession from the Apostles and the third, the priesthood of believers, the faithful, those who believe in Christ which we are a part of, the laity.

I believe you love Our Lord Jim, realize and accept prophecy says God is gong to bring us together, the Orthodox, Protestantism to the faith. The greater persecution and never before seen changes to the are going happen, Satan hates the faith. This is his end time plan. Do not be fooled then thinking, ah yes, Roman Catholicism is the Harlot. Like Christ, the faith will experience her Calvary. Remember, remember, before and after the divine "AWAKENING" what God shows you. No matter Satan, his foolish plans, the Remnant is Roman Catholic. God wants us all to believe, you see this already, see the faith.


GBY,

colbe

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: colbe

Why do you have priests when Jesus said this?

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Hi,

Every day Our Lord is preparing Protestants to accept the faith, prophetic divine events are closer.

To Debra Lowe (an excerpt), the first paragraph is about the prophesied "awakening", this is the "supernatural
thing" Our Lord is talking about (Rev 6:15-17). The second paragraph, God has to show the world in the "awakening", He is waiting on your belief "to line up" with His. He is speaking to Protestants, trash the heresies of Protestantism (faith alone, scripture alone, Jesus did it all on the cross, your sins are removed, you are saved, the *imputation heresy*) are three heresies as example.

5/9//14

I hear the Lord saying, a surprise is coming and it is not according to the season of man. For every thing man plans comes from their mind and it is limited, not like My scope. I Am about to do something, a token if you would, to show you that I Am God and that I Am good. It will not come through the hands of normality, it will not be normal, it will not be the way that you planned it! Because I Am about to do a supernatural thing. For all who wait upon Me and put their trust in Me, I Am about to surprise you with good.

Man may have given you an evil and a bad report, but I Am will to turn it around for good. It is going to be like the season of Job, where it all seemed so hard, so difficult, so tight, but I was there, waiting on the Word. I Am waiting on your word to line up with Mine, for you can change the season with your word. And if you utter something contrary to My word it will come to pass, swiftly now, and that will surprise you too. But if you say what I say, right there, right in the midst of that "Job" season, you will have the outcome, the same harvest that Job had. So put a muzzle on your mouth. Do not utter those words of doubt and unbelief.

ft111.com...

a reply to: colbe

. . . the ministerial priesthood who offer Sacrifice which is the office of the New Covenant Catholic priesthood, ordained, in succession from the Apostles . . .

But none of that is in the New Testament.
It's just something made up by whoever put together the officially state sanctioned version of a church by Rome.

a reply to: colbe

Uhm... ok?

Why quote me and not say anything?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

I'll try not to be offended but . . .

If you had the spirit of God you wouldn't be.

. . . a person is grasping when they use a word like "mumbo jumbo."

Not if it actually is mumbo jumbo.

Don't like the quote, . . .

Because you do not demonstrate the ability to understand it yourself.

Ministerial priests like Aron are the Catholic priesthood

That's not the New Testament.

Protestantism has no ministerial priesthood to offer sacrifice.

Episcopalians do.
But where does it say in the New Testament that anyone other than Jesus offers anything to God as sacrifice?

The point that I was trying to get at in my earlier post was that there are no mysteries.
There were, but then Jesus answered them.

You know what would be nice is if you would not dissect my posts, no one can read what I actually said.
Your intention maybe? I don't do that to you.
Now you're down to posting a half a sentence jim, next it will one word.

I'll reply to your first, Our Lord became very "offended" with those desecrating His Father's house. The same for
THE faith.

Why can't you even consider Jim, God can bring the world to one belief as it was in the beginning of Christianity?
He did not make you or me His authority on Christ's teachings, read 1 Tim 3:15. The Bible is NOT our authority either,
the Church is, Roman Catholicism. The Church came first, she, RC canonized Scripture. The written Word is only
part of God's revelation.


To the unity of Christianity and the conversion of non-Christians, alleluia!!!

1 Timothy 3:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the PILLAR and ground of the TRUTH.

Douay-Rheims Bible

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the PILLAR and ground of the TRUTH.

a reply to: colbe

Your intention maybe? I don't do that to you.

I wish that you and others would.
There is built into my posts, in the highlighted text, a link to the post that I am commenting on, if anyone wanted to read the entire post.
Too many times people will just copy the entire post into their response so I have no idea what they are commenting on exactly.

Now you're down to posting a half a sentence jim, next it will one word.

There is little actual substance to your posts, and what there is of it, it is several topics tightly jammed in together in a single sentence.

Our Lord became very "offended" with those desecrating His Father's house.

And?
That is not the same as taking offence at what one might take as a personal slight, that is just self pride and not righteous indignation.
I think Catholicism breads pride, the idea that you belong to the "real" church, and everyone else just belong to inferior wannabe churches.

The same for THE faith.

Huh?

Why can't you even consider Jim, God can bring the world to one belief as it was in the beginning of Christianity?

That is a fantasy, that it was ever some sort of monolithic central entity. It was always fragmented because people are individuals.
That is the whole idea of Christianity, that you can't have one set of rules that is perfect for everyone, and the best way is to have God speak to each person through His spirit, through Christ.

He did not make you or me His authority on Christ's teachings, read 1 Tim 3:15.

First Timothy was probably not written by Paul, but had been made to look as if it was, to lend authority to it, and represents insecurity within those placing themselves into positions to be a sort of paid clergy class, copying the customs of the older pagan religions.

The Bible is NOT our authority either, the Church is, Roman Catholicism.

God is the authority, and how this works is how it is described in the Bible, that Jesus was resurrected and then went to Heaven and received power and authority to found his church. He returned to his disciples and gave to them the spirit necessary to do the actual physical work of carrying out that plan.
Those original Apostles who directly received power from the risen Christ were especially gifted with spiritual insight to create the writings that are now the New Testament, containing within them authoritative takes on what we need to know to base doctrine on.

The Church came first, she, RC canonized Scripture. The written Word is only part of God's revelation.

I just don't buy it because the evidence does not support it. The New Testament is disconnected from all the written commentaries on the books in it, as if they had no direct correspondence with the writers to have any more understanding than anyone else who could pick it up and read it.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

. . . the ministerial priesthood who offer Sacrifice which is the office of the New Covenant Catholic priesthood, ordained, in succession from the Apostles . . .

But none of that is in the New Testament.
It's just something made up by whoever put together the officially state sanctioned version of a church by Rome.

You are losing on credibility using vague no name words, your "whoever." You won't address, speak of, go near documented people who lived at the time and knew the Apostles and to follow,their successors which is early Church history through the centuries up until the Protestant revolt in what century, the 16th century! You can't name names because they are as history shows, Roman Catholic so you use "whoever."

How can you pretend the Holy Mass isn't offered every day all around the world for centuries long before the
Revolt. What is it's purpose, why would Christians insist on the Mass? Ask these questions to get ready for
the time ahead.

Yes it is, the ministerial priesthood is there in the Gospel. John Salza (Catholic apologist) can explain much better than I, he shares... an excerpt, ATS rules: See all the Scripture references. Christ's one time eternal sacrifice is represented in Heaven AND on earth...on earth by a ministerial priest who stands in the place of Christ in the Holy SACRIFICE of the Mass. Why do you imagine the Mass is called a sacrifice?

We here on earth are united with Heaven. Not only do Protestants deny the New Covenant ministerial priesthood to offer sacrifice, John Salsza explains why they do not understand Christ's sacrifice for mankind is represented to the Father in Heaven. The Holy Mass is greatest form of worship.

The divine "awakening", the Warning will enlighten our brothers and sisters.

+ + +

....First, St. Paul in his letter to the Hebrews
repeatedly describes Jesus as our “high priest”
in heaven.
1
Second, Scripture teaches us that the
principal duty of a priest is to
offer sacrifice.
St. Paul specifically says, “for ever
y high priest...is appointed
to act on behalf of
men in relation to
God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins” (Heb 5:
1). St. Paul further says, “For every high priest
is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices"
(Heb 8:3). St. Paul then
ties these truths together, in the
very same verse, when he says about Jesus: “hence it is necessary for this priest
also to have
something to offer.”
To our non-Catholic friends, we must emphasize the following: Even though Jesus
offered His body once-for-all on the cross of Calvary,
St. Paul says it is necessary for Jesus to
also have “something to offer” in heaven. Because
Jesus IS our High Priest in heaven, this
necessary offering must be a “sacrifice for sins,”
for according to St. Paul that is what priests
offer. We can NOT separate Christ’s sacrifice from
His priesthood since Christ is a priest only by
virtue of His sacrifice. That Scripture says Jesus
must offer a sacrifice for sins in heaven poses an
immediate problem for Protestant theology which
h views Jesus’ atoning work on the cross as
completed.
Because Jesus shed His blood once on Calvary
and suffers no more, the manner in which
He presents this same blood sacrifice
to the Father in
heaven is a mystery indeed. However, the
book of Hebrews sheds light on the reality of this mystery. St. Paul
says that Jesus “entered once
for all into the Holy Place,
taking
not the blood of goats and calves
but his own blood, thus
securing an eternal redemption”
(Heb 9:12). Why does St. Paul emphasize that Jesus takes His
blood into heaven? To emphasize that Jesus’ blood is being presented in heaven as a sacrifice.
St. Paul does this by setting up a comparison between the Old Testament priests who
sacrificed animals, and Jesus Christ who sacrificed Himself. Just as the Old Testament priests
would take the blood of these animals into the earthly sanctuary, Jesus takes His blood into the
“heavenly sanctuary.”
2
Further, just as God would see the shed blood of the animals and be
temporarily appeased, He now sees the shed blood of His Son and is
perfectly appeased. To
maintain parity between St. Paul’s explanation of the Old Covenant versus New Covenant
1
See Heb 4:14; 8:1-2; 9:11-12; Heb 10:21-22; see also Heb 2:17; 3:1.
2
See Heb 8:2; 9:12; 10:19.
www.scripturecatholic.com...

a reply to: colbe

You are losing on credibility using vague no name words, your "whoever." You won't address, speak of, go near documented people who lived at the time and knew the Apostles . . .

I have discussed them, whoever you are talking about.
As I see it, when the Christian religion went official in the Roman Empire, it was guided into its acceptable form by the existing religious hierarchy, people whose names are not recorded in history, where what we get instead is figure heads like the supposed Popes.

. . . their successors which is early Church history through the centuries up until the Protestant revolt in what century, the 16th century!

I already said that is a fiction. There is no chain of succession.
The Christian clergy were all killed in the attempt to stamp out Arianism, and were replaced with persons recruited out of the pagan clergy.

You can't name names because they are as history shows, Roman Catholic so you use "whoever."

See my comments above, and in my earlier post.

How can you pretend the Holy Mass isn't offered every day all around the world for centuries long before the Revolt.

I don't. But so what? False religion goes on continuously all over the world and it doesn't make it right simply because it exists.

What is it's purpose, why would Christians insist on the Mass? Ask these questions to get ready for the time ahead.

Its purpose is to create a monopoly on salvation, where you have to go to them to obtain it, thus giving them power over everyone with the threat that they can take it away from whoever they want, at will.
It would have been demanded by the power structure in the countries where it exists. It wouldn't have been demanded by the general people unless they were thoroughly brain washed or they have a psychological need to have a physical confirmation of salvation.

Why do you imagine the Mass is called a sacrifice?

It makes people who like to dress up in robes feel important.

Not only do Protestants deny the New Covenant ministerial priesthood to offer sacrifice . . .

There isn't one there in the New Testament in the first place in order to deny it.

The Holy Mass is greatest form of worship.

It may appear that way in a world of materialism.
True religion is explained in the Letter of James to be doing righteous acts to help others in need.