I'm Flabbergasted At The Unprecedented Ignorance *Some* Members Are Displaying

The level of willful ignorance being displayed in the Bundy 'racism' threads astounds me. I guess we're not doing that whole "deny ignorance" thing anymore, huh?

Those that took the one minute and thirty second clip waved about by the Media at first glance and flocked to its banner, really need to reexamine their own motives when it comes to being proven to have overreacted to a manufactured scandal.

When the first clip, which was edited woefully out of context (on purpose, in my opinion), was released, certain people snatched it and ran around shaking it about as though they'd found the Holy Grail, or something. Then when the longer clips were posted to show the context of the man's remarks, they became defensive, and unwilling to accept that they'd been duped by a media machine that has been doing things like this for centuries.

Context isn't something to sneer at, it is the crux of what is going on here. It isn't the proverbial 'fetal position' being assumed by Bundy supporters, it is a gigantic shield, which should protect them from the outright lies being put forth by those in the media.

I find it inconceivable that supposedly intelligent, and 'enlightened' people are this obtuse, and yet we have the posts that have been made in the last couple days.

Agree with me, or don't, it doesn't matter. I know that there will be those same blind responses that have been seen in other threads, and I find it mind-numbingly pathetic.

On other sites, this is the norm, but I guess I just expected more from the ATS community.

Everything is propaganda,

Needs to be the first statement ANYONE makes when taking in information brought to them.

Look at it with a critical eye, even if it confirms your current views, no especially if it does.

Critical thinking is whats needed all around.

The only explanation I can come up with for the many members is that they respond in a way that they have been programmed to .The Bundy thing is just one example of many .The Nuland phone call means nothing to them because it wasn't on cnn and hasn't come out in a White house statement . They are scared about a Russian ship in the Atlantic ocean spying on them instead of considering the what the NSA is doing . Their fear is directed away from the ones they should fear and directed to some boogie man halfway around the world with made up propaganda of WMD's . They claim they are spreading peace and democracy around the world while looking at all the civilian deaths bty drowns as only some sort of collateral damage all over the alciada boogie man .

What I think is really disturbing is that the whole issue is one that has nothing to do with Bundy's personal views. This is about the land and how the Feds responded to what was going on with it.

The real arguments are:

1.) Do you think the Federal government should own 80%+ of the land in a state and regulate it such that private citizens essentially are forced off of it?

2.) When a private citizen resists those measures, does the Federal government need to show up with a fully armed SWAT team, complete with sniper rifles, tasers, attack dogs, and attack helicopters to prove their point?

Neither of these two questions have anything to do with what Bundy thinks of anyone personally or even racial politics, so why should his views on these things invalidate his claims?

The answer is that they don't, but people are so programmed like little Pavlov's dogs to respond to those things, that they don't even stop and think about how they're buying right in to the politics of personal destruction rather than answering the actual questions in points 1 and 2 above. And that's the point. Divide and conquer because Bundy can't resist the Federal attack machine with the people on his side.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Irrespective of the specific media reports, what is your assessment if any of Mr Bundy's extent of bigotry? -which is by definition ignorance.

How is the extent of his bigotry relevant to his moral standing, legal troubles and his armed attempts at superseding the courts.

If you don't mind, I'd like to see some confirmation that you are not doing the exact same thing you accuse others of. I'll admit I'm skeptical that you are objective.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Those that took the one minute and thirty second clip waved about by the Media at first glance and flocked to its banner, really need to reexamine their own motives when it comes to being proven to have overreacted to a manufactured scandal.

So was it a manufactured scandal when he went back on tv and repeated the comments again? The only change he made was to add I wonder.

originally posted by: ketsuko
What I think is really disturbing is that the whole issue is one that has nothing to do with Bundy's personal views. This is about the land and how the Feds responded to what was going on with it.

If you can't attack the issue, you find something to obfuscate it, get people focused on something else.

Its a diversion tactic,

Argue with someone when you know they are wrong, watch how they argue.

They dance around the issue, as if you call them out on it they have no leg to stand on.

Think about it from past issues, stories that come up.

Its not about Government Spying, its about Snowden, or Manning, Or Julian Assange.

Than, your the bad guy for supporting a _____ fill in blank with what ever, Traitor, Tranny, Rapist, or Racist, anything works as long as you can spin it negatively.


Its such an old tried and true tactic that it works even in a Conspiracy forum, whose model is to deny such things...

This is just adding to the distraction.
It's not about racist or not racist. Bundy is on the news to keep our attention there.
I refuse to argue for either side.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

So because Bundy holds views you see as bigotry, he deserves to have his private property stolen and shot by the government? Do you generally advocate that for everyone who holds views of which you disapprove?

a reply to: buster2010

The guy is old. Old people talk like that. His intentions are blatantly obvious in the longer clip. Stop trying to make him sound like mr. evil. Sure he isn't politically correct, AT ALL, but he is not a racist. There was even a member of his personal guard who happens to be black, that stood up and said its absurd people are making the claim he is racist.

Buster, don't take this personally, but stop being so cynical.

Nice rant, but sad fact is the right is using the same tools and try to pretend there side is the right one.

Both sides of the same coin. For someone who is so smart, you fell in the same trap.

Right- whether or not Bundy is the most racist B-stard on the planet , or not doesn't relate in any way to the other issue regarding the BLM so anyone attempting to insert this as any kind of character attack which somehow validates, or invalidates one side or the other of the BLM deal is just as skewed in there vision as the most ignorant of opinion expressed.

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: buster2010

The guy is old. Old people talk like that. His intentions are blatantly obvious in the longer clip. Stop trying to make him sound like mr. evil. Sure he isn't politically correct, AT ALL, but he is not a racist. There was even a member of his personal guard who happens to be black, that stood up and said its absurd people are making the claim he is racist.

Buster, don't take this personally, but stop being so cynical.

Of course the guy is just old. You can find people that speak like that in every town.

People are mad. They are looking for ways to show their displeasure.

And Buster is always cynical....that's how he rolls.

a reply to: ketsuko

1. read post.
2. comment.

Why should I bother respond to comments that have nothing to do with my post? Clean it up if you want to be taken seriously.

It does not change who Bundy is one bit. He likes Mexicans because they work hard and I will just bet you he has a few Mexicans that work real cheap for him.

I live in Ranch Country, They all love Mexicans as they can not find a white boy that will work so hard for so cheap. Not a one of them I know (and I know a bunch) would hire a black guy. Bundys comments reflect that attitude in a big way.

Regardless of context, Bundy is still an ignorant piss ant thief. Just my opinion of course......

Its the T.V. Way to many people watch WAY 2 much of it. The commercials and news prepare your mind for reprogramming and more then a few shows tell you how you should think. Day after day you take all that in
and over time you slowly start to change your mind
There are reasons they repeat things 3 times or more. Just like there are reasons why they edit media, or cover one story instead of another more important one. And its not just to fit in a few critical news items into an hour.

That being said read my signature below..

a reply to: buster2010

The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator.
One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine?

Link to article

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

So your hero gets a little dirty and you sling mud our way?
Typical desperate pathetic move by your typical pathectic side.

originally posted by: Jefferton
a reply to: ProfessorChaos
Double

Well here's the transcript from the 3:13 video..

compare to what you hear and then put the whole thing in context.

…” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy – so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structure than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people.

And we need to have those people join us and be with us…. not, not come to our party.

Youtube Link to the 3:13 version