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originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: ImaFungi
Don't knock it till you try it and did you read the title of the thread?
Why are you dismissing something you have never looked into or tried?
Actually from a historical point of view the whole matter of the forehead has been referred to in every religion in the world.
In every context applied is a mystical referent.
In Ash Wednesday the symbolism offered is as a reminder that the body is a vessel.
so 12 dimensions would mean an object would have, length, depth, width, and then...what?
Both "particles" on either end of the communication path, change state at the same time because they have the appearance of being, or are, the same particle. It appears information is tunneled through a Plank length "gateway" when two particles have exactly the same state, they "sync up" and distance is irrelevant, it can be a mm's to billions of light years.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
Either their math is wrong or the universe is fake
Imagine a communication channel between Alice and Bob, across which, normally something has to pass for communication to occur. But suppose Alice releases a photon – through an array of beam-splitters and mirrors – that Bob can choose to either block or not block. What he does will rouse different detectors at Alice's end. In this way, Alice can infer Bob's action by checking her own detectors. But here is where it gets stranger: the photon didn't even have to leave Alice's side of the communication channel in order for her to know about Bob's choice.
originally posted by: elysiumfire
ImaFungi:
so 12 dimensions would mean an object would have, length, depth, width, and then...what?
bobs_uruncle:
Both "particles" on either end of the communication path, change state at the same time because they have the appearance of being, or are, the same particle. It appears information is tunneled through a Plank length "gateway" when two particles have exactly the same state, they "sync up" and distance is irrelevant, it can be a mm's to billions of light years.
Can't accept this. To me these theories of explanation are simply nothing more than a convoluted admission to not knowing. How is one able to determine that a) a communication path actually exists, and b) that two distinct separate particles are in correspondence, and c) that one or both particle/s is affecting the other?
If you fire a photon in one direction and simultaneously fire another photon in the opposite direction, once each photon had travelled say for two seconds, any information they share about their states should take 4 seconds to traverse the distance even at the speed of light. Both photons will have travelled 372,000 miles, but the distance between them would be 744,000 miles. There could be no possibility of instantaneous communication between them. For such communication to occur, you are talking about energies many magnitudes above that of the so-called 'Big Bang'! The communication path between the two separate and distinct photons travelling at the speed of light in opposite directions would have to be energetically neutral and wholly non-interactive with the information being exchanged. Such a pathway would be intolerable to nature.
When you look into the night sky and observe the nearest star to our sun (Proxima Centauri), you are seeing light that has been travelling for 4.24 light years. Apparently, the photons that left Proxima Centauri never encountered anything on the way to the back of your retina in all that time, and across that vast distance. They never encountered dust or debris or planets. Our universe must be either very clean or very very sparse? However, once a photon from Proxima enters the iris of your eye and activates a rod or cone in your retina, does it somehow relay information about its fate to other photons from Proxima? The question I am asking is why would particles communicate with each other when there is no possibility of them interacting?
You seem quite sure of yourself of the limited ability of humans to understand the virtual reality in which we exist.
originally posted by: elysiumfire
bobs_uruncle:
You seem quite sure of yourself of the limited ability of humans to understand the virtual reality in which we exist.
...
To suggest that we live in a 'virtual reality' is to claim evidence and experience of the actual 'reality' we must be separate from, as we cannot exist in both a virtual reality, and a non-virtual reality at the same time. So, how can you claim we are living in a 'virtual reality' when you can have no possible experience of the 'reality' we are separate from? How do you know what is virtual from what is real?
...
Cheers
originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: micpsi
Can you explain what is meant by more then 3 spatial dimensions existing 'within' the general 3 spatial dimensional universe we exist in? Are the extra dimensions, for example I think you mention, 15, and 10, ill just pick 15 for example; so the 3 dimensions we exist in are at the bottom of 15, meaning 12 dimensions are larger, beyond the closed universe, or are these 3 at the top of the 15, and the rest of the 12 are within, or deeper in and smaller then the 3 we exist in, or are they somewhere in the middle?
So we agree maybe electrons and quarks exist? Do we agree that these objects are 3d objects? That is to say they have an area, length, depth, and width? so 12 dimensions would mean an object would have, length, depth, width, and then... what?
originally posted by: micpsi
The quantum wave function behaves as a wave, exhibiting both constructive and destructive interference. But there is no known physical medium for its oscillations - the aether having been long banished by Einstein's Special Theory. So physicists learned to regard the wave function as real, yet at the same time non-physical in the sense that it conveyed information as a wave-like disturbance not in some medium filling space but in a purely mathematical space (the n-dimensional Hilbert state vector space). Then along came quantum entanglement, in which the quantum wave function of a particle that is entangled with a given particle instantaneously collapses from a supposition of all possible eigen states into a discrete eigen state whose associated eigenvalue correlates with that of the particle measured a million light years away. Despite having wave-like properties, the wave function has a mysterious non-local character that is NOT caused by hidden variables conjectured by Einstein and supporters of his contention that quantum mechanics is an incomplete theory that does not take into account stochastic processes due to hidden variables. Even if there WERE such variables, they would not be local ones (as Einstein wanted) because experiments on Bell's Inequality have now ruled them out. Therefore, if they exist at all, hidden variables have to be non-local ones that are not simply functions of the distance separating them - which merely perpetuates the counter-intuitive mystery at the centre of quantum mechanics posed by the phenomenon of quantum entanglement.
Unlike what Einstein believed, physics cannot describe quantum reality; it describes only how it responds to our interaction with it with measuring instruments that operate in the large-scale, four-dimensional space-time continuum.
Suppose that quantum properties like spin and supersymmetry were emergent properties of some higher-dimensional space - like the 15 spatial dimensions predicted by bosonic string theory to exist beyond the 10 spatial dimensions required by M-theory. Could it be that the spatial separateness of entangled quantum particles is an illusion, created by the fact that measurements take place only in three of the 25 spatial dimensions predicted by the quantum mechanics of spinless strings?
Perhaps it is NOT that the result of observation of one entangled particle is transmitted faster than light in this hidden, higher-dimensional space to the particle entangled with it but rather that there is still only one entity, despite its parts being perhaps separated by light years, so that the problem of causality is an illusion created by our incomplete knowledge of the complete entangled system, which ALWAYS behaves as a single, indivisible whole but which does not manifest as a whole in just the four-dimensional space-time that our brains are programmed to operate in? When only the lower-dimensional parts can be measured, they will always seem to be magically connected....
originally posted by: mbkennel
Microscopic quantum mechanics isn't classically local, because it's not classical physics.