Oklahoma House passes solar surcharge bill

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

On the other hand, some of the most oppressive legislation I've seen in my lifetime is currently coming exclusively from states who's legislatures are controlled by Republicans. Go figure!

Until they figure out a way to store massive amounts of electricity solar is a waste anyway, giving money to something like solyndra to be wasted is unconscionable. The push for electric cars is insane until you upgrade the grid we have rolling blackouts now without electric cars, wait until you charge a million cars at once. Oppression is wasting money on solar when it could be helping the poor.

A????

Solar is not a waste, it is free energy. In fact the technology is becoming more and more efficient every year.

Free energy yes, cost effective no. When you consider the number of people in the world that are poor right now in the history of the world petroleum is much more cost effective for the poor. Maybe in the future when technology improves then it will be better than burning wood, or oil. or some other consumable. What does it cost to install solar on a 3 bedroom house in America for a family of 4? Time to be real and quit wasting money until it gets better. Think past the feel good idea of free energy, harvesting sunlight pays for years of kilowatt hours. Now if you want solar for a shtf situation then that makes sense. But not because of cost.

Someone needs to take them to court and make them prove they are consuming sunlight and that the state owns the sunlight to begin with. Otherwise it is straight up taxation without representation. An ambulance chaser attorney should be able to win this case.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: spurgeonatorsrevenge

That could be but....

How do power companies lose money from people using their own solar/wind equipment?

And how do power companies make more money with this law?

Is there an actually copy of the entire legislation anywhere?

I agree in advance that an agenda is here somewhere. I just want to know the real agenda.

Energy companies charge off-peak rates and peak rates depending on demand. Off-peak is at night-time and during mild-weather. Peak rate is day-time usage, when homes are competing against office blocks for energy.
They make most of their profits from peak rate. usage. During peak demand, the price of energy is set by the most expensive production system (oil burning power stations), during off-peak demand, the price of energy is set by the cheapest production system (coal burning power stations).

Then all of sudden, along comes solar power combined with energy storage in the form of batteries. Now any home can use and store up solar power during the day (there goes some profit) and if they don't use it then, they can use at night (there goes some more profit) and even resell it back to the grid (there goes even more profit).

They claim that people could be storing up "their energy" during off-peak times, and selling it during peak times.

Some basic physics: On every square meter on Earth, around 2 kilowatts/hour of energy arrives in the form of sunlight per second. Solar panels may only be 50% efficient, but just 28 square meters (4 meters x 7 meters) is enough to give your home 14 kilowatts of energy/hour. And that is enough to keep all your appliances going. The biggest energy consumers are the washing machine/spin dryer, the cooker and all those electronics sitting on standby mode.

originally posted by: stormcell
Perhaps they will introduce a suntan tax next. Or maybe a "shadow tax" for anyone who lives in the shade of another building and doesn't have to pay so much for air conditioning.

Stop giving them ideas!!


I have to say, this tax doesn't surprise me in the least. In fact, I've come to fully expect it. No matter what technology emerges, it's inevitable that:
1.) The government will find a way to get it's cut.
2.) An opposing industry will bribe the government into punishing the industry and it's customers.
Or in most cases
3.) Both.

Democrat or Republican, the utilities have them bought and paid for.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Sounds like the answer is to NOT hook your Solar System up to the grid. There issue with distributed generation seems to be when the solar power is predominantly hooked to the grid.

Any smart person would TRY to design and install a solar system that IS NOT hooked to the grid. I realize for many that is a pipe dream and there are component issues (batteries for one), but WE THE PEOPLE need to work together to make stuff like this happen.

a reply to: stormcell

Thanks for the response.

Good info.

All right or left means anymore in this country is which thumb are you under, the right one or the left one?

I've noticed a disturbing trend of lawmakers everywhere, from both parties, punishing and going after people who are trying to live off the grid. It's a war on independance. They want to force people to continue to be enslaved by a parasitic system. They want to keep everyone working and paying like good little drones. Any attempt to check out of this rat race are facing persecution.

This isn't a surprise, coming from Oklahoma - a state whose governor just made it illegal for cities in her state to raise minimum wages or permit paid sick/maternity leave (see: Governor Bans Minimum Wage Increases And Paid Sick Leave Laws)

This state is owned by the oligarchy. The oligarchy is threatened by alternative energy, like solar, and thus we have them passing onerous laws to squelch the common man from harnessing the sun to free themselves from the grid.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

your quote: And people brag on about being "taxed enough already" on here, where's the outrage on this? - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

You should know that no one brags about being taxed too much. The proper word would be bitch's, or complains!

Just so you know I think this is just wrong. Every one should be able to try their hand at saving themselves some money, any way they can.

a reply to: Flatfish

this is not about that fake right/left divisive garbage. I live in an all dem state and have to pay a rain tax. this is about statists building an all powerful government to regulate every aspect of peoples lives.
until you can get past phony republican/democrat labels, you will continue to be a stooge for the establishment.

a reply to: beezzer

One of the results of an Oligarchy. It does not matter what the people think.

The utility companies have raised their rates very high in the last few years, while incomes are going down.
More and more are turning to solar, the utility companies are scared. Look out.

Well Obama *Did* tell us .....

Obama My Plan Makes Electricity Rates Necessarily Skyrocket

Who's fault is it again ????

originally posted by: robobbob
a reply to: Flatfish

this is not about that fake right/left divisive garbage. I live in an all dem state and have to pay a rain tax. this is about statists building an all powerful government to regulate every aspect of peoples lives.
until you can get past phony republican/democrat labels, you will continue to be a stooge for the establishment

IMO, the real and radical divide between the left & right has never been clearer and only a stooge would fail to recognize that fact.

As far as I'm concerned, that "throw them all out" attitude is just a cop-out for not being able to admit that the party you used to favor has recently proven to be about as useful as a lead weight on a kite.

originally posted by: pikestaff

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: windword

I can't verify this but I read somewhere on ATS that Germany will charge for rainfall based on the area of a yard.

FPL in Florida makes it difficult and expensive to sell back excessive homemade power. Plenty of sunshine here.

Europe's measure is the 'meter', three and one quarter inches longer than a 'yard' not that it really make much difference.

By yard, I was refering to one's yard as in the land one's owns, not a unit of measurement nor part of a sailing rig. Even though I am an American, I prefer the metric system

If I recall correctly, what I read about Germany is they would do this because after it rains the tenant does not need to water his/her grass and the water service found a way to make up for this 'lost' income.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

On the other hand, some of the most oppressive legislation I've seen in my lifetime is currently coming exclusively from states who's legislatures are controlled by Republicans. Go figure!

Until they figure out a way to store massive amounts of electricity solar is a waste anyway, giving money to something like solyndra to be wasted is unconscionable. The push for electric cars is insane until you upgrade the grid we have rolling blackouts now without electric cars, wait until you charge a million cars at once. Oppression is wasting money on solar when it could be helping the poor.

A????

Solar is not a waste, it is free energy. In fact the technology is becoming more and more efficient every year.

Free energy yes, cost effective no. When you consider the number of people in the world that are poor right now in the history of the world petroleum is much more cost effective for the poor. Maybe in the future when technology improves then it will be better than burning wood, or oil. or some other consumable. What does it cost to install solar on a 3 bedroom house in America for a family of 4? Time to be real and quit wasting money until it gets better. Think past the feel good idea of free energy, harvesting sunlight pays for years of kilowatt hours. Now if you want solar for a shtf situation then that makes sense. But not because of cost.

I bet if we could measure it, the cost of disease created by compounds and elements found in fossil fuels would change that, however figuring that out is impossible.

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

On the other hand, some of the most oppressive legislation I've seen in my lifetime is currently coming exclusively from states who's legislatures are controlled by Republicans. Go figure!

Until they figure out a way to store massive amounts of electricity solar is a waste anyway, giving money to something like solyndra to be wasted is unconscionable. The push for electric cars is insane until you upgrade the grid we have rolling blackouts now without electric cars, wait until you charge a million cars at once. Oppression is wasting money on solar when it could be helping the poor.

A????

Solar is not a waste, it is free energy. In fact the technology is becoming more and more efficient every year.

Free energy yes, cost effective no. When you consider the number of people in the world that are poor right now in the history of the world petroleum is much more cost effective for the poor. Maybe in the future when technology improves then it will be better than burning wood, or oil. or some other consumable. What does it cost to install solar on a 3 bedroom house in America for a family of 4? Time to be real and quit wasting money until it gets better. Think past the feel good idea of free energy, harvesting sunlight pays for years of kilowatt hours. Now if you want solar for a shtf situation then that makes sense. But not because of cost.

I bet if we could measure it, the cost of disease created by compounds and elements found in fossil fuels would change that, however figuring that out is impossible.

It has been done. Solar powered LED lamps have been found to be a healthy replacement to kerosene lamps in India, saving potentially 1 million lives/year:

environment.about.com...

Arizona tried this but ended up with a $5 a month fee:

PHOENIX (AP) — Arizona regulators on Thursday voted to adopt a roughly $5 monthly fee for customers of the state's largest utility who install rooftop solar panels in a move that had the solar industry declaring victory over what it saw as an effort to topple its business.

The Arizona Corporation Commission's vote came after two days of talks and testimony from citizens and representatives on both sides of the issue as Arizona Public Service sought a monthly rate increase for solar customers of $50 to $100.

Arizona Solar Energy fight ends with..

The tax is only when you are hooked to the grid. This is clarified on page 2. You can read the actual bill here.
Link to the Bill

This fee/tax actually makes sense. It is not fair for those to buy their own solar panel and then hook it up to the grid (which was built by the power companies being subsidized by the people using that utility service) in which to sell their electricity. Basically its a fee for using the power grid to sell energy. Honestly, this makes sense because its not fair to use infrastructure that was paid for by someone else for free. If you don't hook up to the grid to sell energy back, this tax does not apply.

Honestly, I think every one emotionally jumped the gun a bit on this one. Next time read the bill before freaking out about it. Geez... I am not even an American citizen and I don't live in the United States and it only took me like 10 seconds to find the actual bill.

a reply to: halfmask

That clears the air for me.

Thanks.