((NEW)) Geoengineering And The Collapse Of Earth 2014. Its worse than you think! A big eye opener.

yeah, all good (what's the point of lying?)

The science explains that the increase is not from the exhaust itself but rather water already in the atmosphere.

granted, but i've never created a pea-soup fog in my backyard via the stream from a garden hose?
i know the atmosphere is different at that altitude, if contrails eventually dissipate i just don't see how 2-3 of 'em end up smearing across the whole sky..
will gardeners be regulated by that 70's treaty?
thanks for "getting" the flyspray/garden-hose thing

Well at least I would be asking about something that is real and has scientific data to back their claims, because there is zero scientific evidence that chemtrails exist, so there really isn't much to ask about concerning chemtrails.

yeah, right there with ya..
but i just think there's probably thousands of things that "officially" don't exist, nyah?
i reckon you'd be waiting for that press release for a while yet?
we're still 'debating' the benefits of fluoride
/shrug

Crow instability is exactly what yuo described - if yuo didn't describe it accurately then feel free to do so.

nah, it's not what i'm trying to describe..
here's a pic i just sourced from the internet (funnily enough, someone has included a unidentified flying object, and it's from the other side of australia, i'm around sydney)

not sure if it's going to scale-down (it's large, and i already reduced it 50%) see those little rivulet/spools that emerge every so often from the main trail?
there are better pics than this, i just couldn't seem to find one just now..

I've not seen evidence of that - perhaps you could produce some - but you might want to consider this too:

yeah that's actually interesting, this is what i would've been hoping for, but you've said this has something to do with different (better) engines? ...so the phenom is not soley dependant on atmosphere?
i'll try to find some footage soon (got a lot of material on external HD's, takes time to wade through it)
there's a supposed 'stealthed traingle craft' doing this available in one of the SheilaAliens presentations (you'll find that no worries) but i think you and i are after something more 'down to earth' in this regard? i think we'd probably both agree the youtube presentations are more often than not used to support an already existing theory (the data is contaminated, possibly even faked)

And they sometimes don't? So what? I see "orbs" in the sky and even in the room all the time - dust motes that ae big enough to distract my vision, birds that I can't focus on

c'mon sir or ma'am, i take happy snaps of dust motes too, and distant birds, and water vapor..
you'll know the difference when you see one cruising around the sky
my dad used to poo-poo all this too, until he and i saw large multiple blue orbs circling over an area that seemed to cover 2-3 whole suburbs (the things you see at a bus-stop when you haven't got a camera)
got any idea of what that night-time glitter is? (take about 20 photo's at night, with flash up in the air, and you'll see the glitter in about half of 'em) (edit) watch the actual area around the flash, not the photo itself, you can just delete 'em after, on film they just look like mess and women's magazine photos of orbs (that's right, even the gossip mags are getting onboard with orbs, yet steering the readership in the direction that they are ghosts/souls, warm & fuzzy.. this is what i mean when i constantly use the word "system")

I am prepared to believe the evidence - whatever it says. But it has to be GOOD evidence - not evidence that shows the person simply does not understand physics and the natural world....or worse yet shows they are lying to me! (which you haven't done AFAIK BTW - but many of the "chemtrail" gurus damned well do)

yeah cool, maybe i can say the same thing? but i don't know what kind of 'evidence' you're after here? like the guy who doesn't want to bother his congressman, i don't think we'll ever get a press release like that?
i don't think i'll ever completely understand physics and the natural world, all sorts of anomalies out there, like that old chestnut about bee's being too large to fly and so on.. in all this grey-area there's no need for me to tell porky pies.. most of what you're presenting to me is somewhat palatable, it's the addition of these unidentified flying objects (orbs) that i can't seem to reconcile with..

thanks for taking the time, i do appreciate it. i just think with the systems track record, it's safer and more convenient for me to just lean in the direction i'm currently leaning in, that's all (like you said, bring on the GOOD evidence, not just the material the system pumps out)
/adjusts tinfoil hat

@ OP, you really need to check facts before spreading incorrect information. Autism rates have risen drastically in the US over the years, but this has NOTHING to do with outside factors. The DSM for autism was changed drastically in 1995 and again in 2003 I believe, which lead to much higher autism rates. Nothing to do with environmental changes, everything to do with diagnosis. Check your facts.

i don't think he's actively spreading bad info, as all this is yet to be sufficiently explained..
..i think you're the one spreading bad info here

the consensus reality version (wiki) says

Many causes of autism have been proposed, but understanding of the theory of causation of autism and the other autism spectrum disorders is incomplete.[1] Research indicates that genetic factors predominate. The heritability of autism, however, is complex, and it is typically unclear which genes are responsible.[2] In rare cases, autism is strongly associated with agents that cause birth defects.[3] Many other causes have been proposed, such as childhood immunizations, but numerous epidemiological studies have shown no scientific evidence supporting any link between vaccinations and autism.[4]

genetic factors predominate? oh, really? /eye roll
(and)

Autism involves abnormalities of brain development and behavior which become apparent before a child is three years old and have a steady course with no remission.

they also used the umbrella term 'spectrum disorder'
a bit like those umbrella terms of alzheimers & the disorders of the elderly

i just think it's a bit early to be saying things like there's no EXTERNAL factors at play here, when that's probably what's responsible for the genetic damage in the first place? (if planes are releasing *something* into the atmosphere, there's another external factor right there)

tell the people who make these video presentations to check their facts.. we don't believe everything they say, just look at the crap sofia smallstorm is pushing

could someone also please 'fact-check' those two planes (side by side) on the previous page, how one spews out the trail and the other does not (and this is because of a supposed engine modification?) ..it seems to me that kind of logic only shoots itself in the foot? - if the atmosphere can be so varied that one plane contrail persists while the other (right next to it) does not, how do the contrails then manage to effectively smear the whole sky with "cirrus" clouds? ..you can't have it both ways? ..mentioning that potential engine modification (being responsible) only steers me in the other direction.. (give us something real to chew on)

all lack of understanding physics aside; noone can explain what these orb things are? it just gets stranger & stranger, not simpler & simpler.. i don't think our wiki's and "official news sites" (that you folks keep referring us back to) are ever going to appreciate this situation in the same way us tinfoil hat wearers do

..from what i can see of all this, you'll all be the ones like jolie, who are willing to cut off their boobs to spite their face, because the system told them to (not in so many words), like how they're shifting over the study of anorexia nervosa from a mental realm to a genetic realm, when you folks are all jumping to the tunes of these genetic-bogeyman (and no longer able to exercise your own responsibility for your actions, like those eating disorder folks who are now being told, "it's in your genes, your mind can't fix it") you'll be prepared to modify your lungs so you can breathe all the dirty air and keep shopping at walmart, you folks are never going to take a step backwards as all this "progress" is rolled out, you never seem to stop and think about the bigger picture, and if you do, all you have to do is prove me wrong and give a small synopsis of where you think this bright, happy, world is headed?

originally posted by: UNIT76
could someone also please 'fact-check' those two planes (side by side) on the previous page, how one spews out the trail and the other does not (and this is because of a supposed engine modification?) ..it seems to me that kind of logic only shoots itself in the foot? - if the atmosphere can be so varied that one plane contrail persists while the other (right next to it) does not, how do the contrails then manage to effectively smear the whole sky with "cirrus" clouds? ..you can't have it both ways? ..mentioning that potential engine modification (being responsible) only steers me in the other direction.. (give us something real to chew on)

Its not the condition being different, it's the type of engine. The newer "high Bypass" engine in much more efficent and burns much less fuel per pound of trust. But it also creates contrails much easier.

You can find out much more here.

a reply to: network dude

uh huh.. pretty much what i expected..

can you lot please get the story straight?

alternative 1

But here’s the main reason why you see trails on some planes but not on others,
and I’ll emphasize it, because although it’s simple, it’s also easy to miss. The planes are at different altitudes. Yes, it’s really that simple. The reason that one plane makes contrails, or makes contrails that persist, and the other plane does not, is that they are in different regions of air. For simplicity, let’s refer to these regions of air as wet air and dry air, although the differences are a bit more complex.

when that 'main reason' might not suffice
alternative 2 kicks in

Its not the condition being different, it's the type of engine. The newer "high Bypass" engine in much more efficent and burns much less fuel per pound of trust. But it also creates contrails much easier.

the website itself goes on to say

When the plane is in wet air, it makes a contrail. In dry air it does not. Surely, you might object, they would have to be miles apart? Well, no, and that brings me to another point I fear I must emphasise: Wet and dry air can exist within a few feet of each other. Consider, for example, clouds:

(but) if that's the case.. how do these "cirrus" clouds then go on to fill the whole sky? (if wet and dry air are apparently 'a few feet away from eachother') ..how does it then go on to flood the entire sky? (nucleation isn't going to suffice here)



why the need for all this "stuff"?

contrails 'added' into old movie footage (and tweaked forrest gump style)
nasa 'contrail education' program for kids
kiwi kids 'cloud identification' guide
..it's always about uplifting the downtrodden, or saving the children, isn't it?

a reply to: UNIT76

Contrails are easily explained with meteorology and combustion. As the link I offered explains, the newer engines are more apt to cause persistent contrails then the older engines. Although, the older engines still made contrails. Plus there are way more planes in the sky, and the number is increasing every year.

The facts that exist in this case aren't up for debate, they are undisputed. The mystery comes in with people pointing to a contrail and claiming it's a chemtrail because........it looks like one.

Clouds have always been a part of the sky. Some days lots of them, some days, not so much. Contrails are artificial clouds. So it stands to reason that on a day when you see clouds at 30,000 feet, you will be more likely to see contrails.

The chemtrail theory sounds cool and you get to blame anyone you like, and you don't even have to know what is being sprayed. It's the easiest conspiracy to latch on to. All you have to do is disregard science.

Believe what you like.

originally posted by: UNIT76
a reply to: network dude

When the plane is in wet air, it makes a contrail. In dry air it does not. Surely, you might object, they would have to be miles apart? Well, no, and that brings me to another point I fear I must emphasise: Wet and dry air can exist within a few feet of each other. Consider, for example, clouds:

(but) if that's the case.. how do these "cirrus" clouds then go on to fill the whole sky? (if wet and dry air are apparently 'a few feet away from eachother') ..how does it then go on to flood the entire sky? (nucleation isn't going to suffice here)

Do you think there's a standard size for areas of higher humidity or do you think the size may vary a lot? You've seen clouds before right?

originally posted by: UNIT76

When the plane is in wet air, it makes a contrail. In dry air it does not. Surely, you might object, they would have to be miles apart? Well, no, and that brings me to another point I fear I must emphasise: Wet and dry air can exist within a few feet of each other. Consider, for example, clouds:

(but) if that's the case.. how do these "cirrus" clouds then go on to fill the whole sky? (if wet and dry air are apparently 'a few feet away from eachother') ..how does it then go on to flood the entire sky? (nucleation isn't going to suffice here)

If you take a bath, you start out dry. Once you climb into the tub full of water, do you remain dry? If not, why?

Now, look at a clear blue sky a few hours before a frontal system comes in. Slowly, clouds start to come in. Then more and more until the sky is covered with clouds. Then comes the storm. How did it go from Blue sky to clouds?
Answer- Science.

a reply to: network dude
Why are you trying so hard to debunk this fact? where do you live ? do you look at the sky ? I do, and when i used to look up 4 years ago i would see mostly clear deep blue skies as i live in a very very sunny country. Then chemtrails started happening. It's getting worse by the year and some days they are spraying so much that you can actually see particles in the air and when it rains (whith chemtrails) cars get covered by a layer of dust that i have never before seen. Most days you can clearly see jet contrails and huuuge chemtrails at about the same altitude at the same time. it is so different ! and never ever happened before !!! and more importantly you can just feel it and see it with your own eyes. this white haze almost every single morning. some days (rarely) they stop and of course you can still see regular contrails( the large amount of chem planes just disappears and you see normal air traffic, one plane now and then...as it is normal, not a constant flow of chemical planes!!). I never had read anything or heard anyone talk about this, I just noticed it starting to happen ! and if you don't, you're just NOT looking up, cause this is happening all over the world. People become more impatient and aggresive during chemtrail days. it weights on people, on nature and most importantly it's blocking the sun and i'm sure that can't be good. It's happening, i just don't care for debunkers ! The only questions is when or if we will ever know the agenda behind all this.

a reply to: mindtricks11

Why are you trying so hard to debunk this fact? where do you live ? do you look at the sky ?

Why are people scared of clouds?

What fact are you talking about...chemtrails and the fact there is no evidence that they exist?

I take it your in the US...



Or maybe somewhere in the world...



So where exactly are these chemtrails that are actually contrails are you seeing this happen?

Here you go where I live...



And yet not one chemntrail...

Then chemtrails started happening.

And where exactly did you hear there were chemtrails being sprayed in the sky?

Most days you can clearly see jet contrails and huuuge chemtrails at about the same altitude at the same time.

I am sorry, but I feel I have to ask this question...

How do you know one is a chemtrail and not a contrail?

And how come clouds aren't all the same size?

Now think about that and then think about the your quote above.

Please don't take anything the wrong way, I am just amazed that people believe something exists without any evidence to show it does.

originally posted by: mindtricks11
a reply to: network dude
Why are you trying so hard to debunk this fact?

You know, at this point, I don't know. You are a perfect example of a chemtrail believer. For you, it was 4 years ago. For others, it was 1990.

You saw more contrails in the sky than before and looked for an answer. Too bad for you that you looked in the wrong spot. You let another lost person give you bad information.

I can post all sorts of real scientific reasons for why the contrails exist, persist, and dissipate. I can explain why I believe they are and have always been just contrails. I can show you how the chemtrail believers will lie and post false information just to persuade the weak minded. But.....

You already have your mind made up and NOTHING I say will convince you otherwise. EVERY bit of information about contrails has been posted in this forum and I venture to guess you have looked at none of it objectively.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I live in Lisbon, Portugal and things up there aren't what they used to be..I don't need scientific proof when i saw with my own eyes the change that took place in the sky. what more proof do i need ? i can only give you my word that this is really what happened but i know that's not good enough for you. So we better leave it here..

Curious thing - Saw a movie the other day "Snowpiercer" and the movie starts with a narrator saying "A failed global warming experiment, etc..." as a plane is seen leaving chemtrails. really just an image of a comercial plane leaving chems close up and then the movie starts.appears in a subliminal way that most audience won't just connect and rather watch it as an action movie.Thought it was a nice theory and some content of the movie is good. but i know for you is just more crap talk...just hope something like what that movie depicts doesn't happen as a consequence of chemtrails.

a reply to: network dude

No one gave me bad information..i noticed that this was a new phenomenon that started to occur ! what changed in aviation suddenly(from night to day), that much more planes appear in the sky leaving it covered with fake clouds ?? and I KNOW this stuff never happened before ! what changed that even in the most remote areas this is happening. dozens of planes leaving this trails where normally there should be almost no air traffic. and i never knew the engines could be turned off in passenger flights with such frequency in order to leave an interrupted trail as i see almost everyday and bla bla bla.. whatever man...let it be contrails until the truth and proof comes out. you'll see. you win...for now...

a reply to: mindtricks11

Curious thing - Saw a movie the other day "Snowpiercer" and the movie starts with a narrator saying "A failed global warming experiment, etc..." as a plane is seen leaving chemtrails.

Well since it is a fiction story, they have to use fictional claims such as chemtrails.

a reply to: UNIT76

Very well said !!!

originally posted by: mindtricks11
a reply to: network dude

No one gave me bad information..i noticed that this was a new phenomenon that started to occur ! what changed in aviation suddenly(from night to day), that much more planes appear in the sky leaving it covered with fake clouds ?? and I KNOW this stuff never happened before ! what changed that even in the most remote areas this is happening. dozens of planes leaving this trails where normally there should be almost no air traffic. and i never knew the engines could be turned off in passenger flights with such frequency in order to leave an interrupted trail as i see almost everyday and bla bla bla.. whatever man...let it be contrails until the truth and proof comes out. you'll see. you win...for now...

Is there a script or something that these believers quote from? Same debunked claims time after time. How many times have we seen the "there should be almost no air traffic" line yet when anyone checks there's loads of normal air traffic

No air traffic.

originally posted by: mindtricks11
a reply to: network dude

No one gave me bad information..i noticed that this was a new phenomenon that started to occur !

Then you have not been paying attention. Contrails have been increasing for years, many more than 4. Folks have been afraid of clouds since 1990.

what changed in aviation suddenly(from night to day), that much more planes appear in the sky leaving it covered with fake clouds ??

If you read any of the information that is out there you would see that the engines have changed.
Even though you won't look here, this can answer all your questions.

and I KNOW this stuff never happened before ! what changed that even in the most remote areas this is happening. dozens of planes leaving this trails where normally there should be almost no air traffic.

BWahahahaha! Show me an area with almost no traffic. You can use the map tsurfer200h provided.

and i never knew the engines could be turned off in passenger flights with such frequency in order to leave an interrupted trail as i see almost everyday and bla bla bla.. whatever man...let it be contrails until the truth and proof comes out. you'll see. you win...for now...

What is a contrail and how does it form?
Start by looking for information, then discuss what you know. If you do it in reverse, you might not "know" anything.

a reply to: mrthumpy
Wow, thanks man ! you really proved that there is almost no traffic where i live...thanks for that, MUCH more planes are crossing the sky with very distinct flight paths than what you showed me. Just now the sun is covered with a thick chem layer but its ok..i'm crazy. even if chemtrails weren't real (they are!) all this super contrails you speak of can't be doing any good covering the sun everyday !!..let's see. How would you feel if chemtrails were proven real ?

a reply to: mindtricks11

You amuse me wonder boi.
like a clown.

a reply to: network dude

Thats alright. you're just part of the ignorant majority despite your scientific claims with such eloquence and technical knowledge, you can't fool anyone with that, you're just like the regular zombies on the street with their noses stuck to their precious high tech gadgets. maybe get your head up and go outside but i guess you're so disconnected from nature that you won't never feel or see the difference..keep up with your debunking mission and don't forget to take your papers with you nerdy boy! This is REAL !